Edge of Tomorrow
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Saturday, October 18, 2025 16:24
VIEWED: 42006
PAGE 17 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.
SGG
The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.
I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sgt. Farrell is not a narrator in the normal sense where there is a voice-over, he foretells the story of Cage, from "parasitic scum" to soldier forged in glorious combat.
At first, I thought Farrell was just spewing old school gung-ho army bullshit, but as I watched a 2nd and 3rd time, I began to understand that he was foretelling Cage's destiny - in other words the main theme of the story. A romanticized vision of the soldier/hero who sacrifices all to win the battle and the war. The fiery crucible is combat where Cage learns to become a soldier all to save Rita, but also to save J-Squad along the way.
At the film's beginning he is parasitic scum trying to blackmail the general, but he is baptized in battle and by the Alpha and therein begins his journey. Even on D-Day when he tries to run away, Farrell tells him "you're gonna miss your moment" and soon after he kills the Alpha. It is a battle for survival for Cage, but when he meets Rita, everything changes. From there on, he is being remade into the soldier he was destined to be. After killing the Alpha, he changes the dynamic of the Mimicks slaughter, and so begins his journey to ultimate victory. It is Rita, Cage and J-Squad who affect the landscape. But only after Cage experiences and cares for someone other than himself.
Wrong. Only after getting the reset ability. That is the sole determining factor.
Quote:
By the way, Farrell couldn't give less of a shit about Cage, who, as far as he's concerned, is a deserter and a coward. Not so much because he's ignorant, but because he's regular Army and set in his ways. Old school Army follows orders, he believes in discipline, and, although he knows Cage is an officer (after the way he sizes up his uniform). He even calls him "sir." Farrell is going to put him through his paces regardless if he's a soldier or an officer.
That is such a stinking pile of manure that I cannot fathom how to introduce reality to the unwashed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.
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Quote:I have no problem with what you wrote.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?
I admire the movie. The screenplay used a small portion of the novel, throwing away what appeals only to the Japanese: pseudo-scientific explanations, far too much detail about mechanized armor Jackets (what in Japanese imagination makes it desirable to merge with mighty machines? ), intra-group dynamics that only the Japanese would care about.
From the novel All You Need Is Kill © 2004 by Hiroshi Sakurazaka :
Quote:Holy crap! I understand why there is still an Emperor. Only in Japan would someone low in the hierarchy write that BS paragraph about their superior's superior qualities. They really want to believe and put faith in those higher up.
Sergeant Ferrell Bartolome had been around longer than anyone else in our platoon. He’d lived through so many battles, he was more than soldier, he was the glue that kept our company together. They said if you stuck him in a centrifuge, he’d come out 70 percent big brother, 20 percent ball-busting drill sergeant, and 10 percent steel-reinforced carbon.
The only idea better in the novel than the movie is the name All You Need Is Kill. Banzai!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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You're right, after re-reading my response, it doesn't make sense.
Cage knows that Rita dies when they reach the helicopter, he even mentions to her that they try a different scenario where she stays behind in the farm house, and he goes ahead. But, after he goes to visit her at the training facility, he decides it best for him to go alone - in an attempt to save her. He is no longer thinking of himself and is willing to sacrifice himself to save her and humanity. He now has the hero's mentality.
He goes to the German post where he visualized the Omega, and discovers it's a trap. He returns to talk with Carter and Rita to tell them the bad news, Carter tells Cage that the device is in Whitehall.............they go, Cage loses his ability, etc. That's probably how she lost Henderson, no matter what she did, he died. It's like when Superman loses his Earth-father, Jonathan Kent, all those powers and he can't save him.
You're probably right about the Omega calculating into the equation and keeping Rita from going with him to the German mountain. One of the things I enjoy about this film is that they don't spoon feed the audience every single plot twist and storyline. It makes you think.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.
SGG
The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.
I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.
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I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield, hence Farrell's speech and it's true meaning.
I did not say he was stupid, Cage was plenty smart, so much so, he thought blackmailing a general would (like in the civilian world) get him the results he would ordinarily get. He even tried to run. He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on. He certainly finds out differently. Just before he tries blackmailing the general, he tells him how he can't stand the sight of blood, not even so much as a paper cut. He is a complete wuss. Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess. The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major, or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
It makes his journey to becoming a hero all the more interesting. By film's end, he's a heroic hunk. The first time he comes to Rita in the training facility in the barracks; he's a private. When he resets the first encounter at the end, he's a major and the men in the facility snap to attention...........honoring his transformation and rank....(damn, I'm good. Actually, the script is damn-near perfect).
SGG
P.S. That whole thing with the general was, to me, a commentary on the difference between the soldier doing battle in the field and the "High" command. Often they are at odds. Brigham was so caught up in being General that he didn't heed the warnings of Carter, Rita or Cage regarding the alien horde. Still though, it's curious how he kept the thingy Carter fashioned to get info from the Alpha.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.
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I agree with you about the novel, it does get into the minutiae of the armor, which makes it quite boring to read. I found myself skipping ahead a lot. It is a romanticized version of Army life, but also a continuation of the fascination with robotics and man-machines or exoskeletons within Japanese sci-fi.
In the novel, Cage was a young lowly private barely out of high school. Of course Tom is a long way from high school. So obviously they changed that and made it more dynamic and clever by making him a glorified civilian with limited training in college (still a stretch). Clever in the sense that they made him out to be a slickster, a conniver, a type of Ferris Bueller of the Army set. Imagine trying to blackmail a general. That's chutzpah!
The further away he was from "hero" the better the transformation at the end in the third act. Much better than all that techno mumble jumble about exoskeletal body armor.
Agreed: Great title "All You Need Is Kill"
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:I have no problem with what you wrote.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?
I admire the movie. The screenplay used a small portion of the novel, throwing away what appeals only to the Japanese: pseudo-scientific explanations, far too much detail about mechanized armor Jackets (what in Japanese imagination makes it desirable to merge with mighty machines? ), intra-group dynamics that only the Japanese would care about.
From the novel All You Need Is Kill © 2004 by Hiroshi Sakurazaka :Quote:Holy crap! I understand why there is still an Emperor. Only in Japan would someone low in the hierarchy write that BS paragraph about their superior's superior qualities. They really want to believe and put faith in those higher up.
Sergeant Ferrell Bartolome had been around longer than anyone else in our platoon. He’d lived through so many battles, he was more than soldier, he was the glue that kept our company together. They said if you stuck him in a centrifuge, he’d come out 70 percent big brother, 20 percent ball-busting drill sergeant, and 10 percent steel-reinforced carbon.
The only idea better in the novel than the movie is the name All You Need Is Kill. Banzai!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.
SGG
The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.
I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.
You're right, after re-reading my response, it doesn't make sense.
Cage knows that Rita dies when they reach the helicopter, he even mentions to her that they try a different scenario where she stays behind in the farm house, and he goes ahead. But, after he goes to visit her at the training facility, he decides it best for him to go alone - in an attempt to save her.
Wrong. He cannot save her. She will die on the beach long before he gets to the helicopter. She only survives longer than a few minutes on the beach when he brings her along.
Quote:
He is no longer thinking of himself and is willing to sacrifice himself to save her and humanity.
ditto.
Quote:
He now has the hero's mentality.
He goes to the German post where he visualized the Omega, and discovers it's a trap. He returns to talk with Carter and Rita to tell them the bad news, Carter tells Cage that the device is in Whitehall.............they go,
Brigham causes Cage to bleed out, instead of allowing the extermination of human race to be stopped.
Quote:
Cage loses his ability, etc. That's probably how she lost Henderson, no matter what she did, he died. It's like when Superman loses his Earth-father, Jonathan Kent, all those powers and he can't save him.
You're probably right about the Omega calculating into the equation and keeping Rita from going with him to the German mountain.
Turner Dam, I think you mean.
Dozens of mimics hiding away, waiting for Rita & Cage to show up and stop her from accompanying Cage to the Trap? All those for just one helicopter, isolated and vacant, hidden, and then Rita? "Probably right" my muscular buttocks.
Quote:
One of the things I enjoy about this film is that they don't spoon feed the audience every single plot twist and storyline. It makes you think.
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.
I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
Cage did not HAVE a position on the battlefield, other to be executed thru Brigham's and Farrell's lies and deceptions.
Quote:
He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on.
As was proven at Verdun, by Rita. Brigham knew the truth, but being a despicable a-hole, hid the facts from the rest of the military.
Quote:
Cage might have been a major,
Not might have. Cage was a Major. Get over it. Deal with it. Get a clue.
Quote:
but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
Now you are repeating me. Do Generals of the JAG prove themselves via combat skills or military prowess? Do Generals of the Medical Corps prove themselves via combat skills or military prowess?
Get a clue.
Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
incorrect. Get a clue.
I will agree that the UDF was most certainly desperate to allow Brigham to claim the rank of General. But then, he didn't come from the U.S.
Quote:
The first time he comes to Rita in the training facility in the barracks; he's a
Major wearing incorrect gear, out of uniform, and railroaded. But following her orders.
Quote:
When he resets the first encounter at the end, he's a major
As he has always been.
Quote:
and the men in the facility snap to attention...........honoring his
correct rank
Quote:
rank....
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
that is not in the film.
Quote:
He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
that is not in the film.
Quote:
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
SGG
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