What Will It Take for Us to Get Back to Being a Decent Society?

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Saturday, April 25, 2026 00:05
VIEWED: 18057
PAGE 17 of 22

The "generational" shot across the bow?

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Seriously, whatever young people care about this are already doing what they can. Don't expect someone else to do for you what you should be doing for yourself.

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First of all... no, they are not. I know plenty of young people. Plenty of young people work for me. I know what they're doing and what they're not doing. Like "young people" everywhere, some are doing a lot, and some are on the other side. It's not a generational thing. Since we both agree on that point, let's drop all reference to age, and instead focus on personal resources (time, money, energy) and results.

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Except no. I've done all that and more. I don't brag about it on the internet because it is UNWISE, and because it's not about making me FEEL better or LOOK better to anyone else and it's none of anyone's business but my own, and because I DON'T ANSWER TO YOU.

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And you too have a long list of actions. You should be proud.

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Furthermore, all that alone won't change ZIP until you're also willing to work OUTSIDE the system.

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And bragging about that IS unwise. I phrased my opinion on non-violence very carefully because, really, is it wise to advocate violence?

Ultimately, tho, nothing will change by our individual actions. We need at least to coordinate. That was one of the things that drove me nuts about Occupy: seemed to be no understanding that different groups doing different things all have viable functions.

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First of all... no, they are not. I know plenty of young people. Plenty of young people work for me. I know what they're doing and what they're not doing. Like "young people" everywhere, some are doing a lot, and some are on the other side. It's not a generational thing.

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If you do not think it's a generational thing, then why are you emphasizing that it is YOUNG people who are not doing their part? If it is NOT a generational thing, that would imply that there are people of ALL ages who do not focus on issues beyond themselves. Yet in your posts and in society in general the blame is always heaped on the young. The YOUNG are always the ones who are called selfish, when the rate of involvement among ALL ages is ALL low.

This struggle is not for everyone, so I object to this attitude about how we should judge some people because they'd rather deal with their own problems. Life is hard enough. It is apparent to me that if someone has the financial ability and time enough to be active and involved in causes, they're speaking from a position of privilege when they call out those who are not involved.

You resent that the greater population doesn't help you? But you are doing this for society in general? You are doing this for them?

Then take strength from their happiness. Take strength from the stability they enjoy because of your hard work. Take strength from their ABILITY to CHOOSE whether they fight or not. Even if they don't join you. Even if at times it seems like you are alone in your fight and no one else will stand with you. Because you can't take strength from their sacrifices. You can't take strength from their deaths. From that you can only take losses.

If you want help from people, INSPIRE them. Instead of shaming, instead of judging. Because what support you get will be so much more whole-hearted.

And because if you don't alienate them first, you might be surprised what the selfish and self-centered people do when they at last see an opportunity that might tip the balance.

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And bragging about that IS unwise. I phrased my opinion on non-violence very carefully because, really, is it wise to advocate violence?

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I was not advocating violence.

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Nice post, Byte.

I remember once when I was younger, a baby boomer lamenting the lack of demonstrations on campus. By the time I got to university, students were more focused pn jobs,housing and drinking than politics, in the main. I now reflect that this university 'radical' is a wealthy financier who has lived much of his life in New York.

And when i was younger, things were still pretty cushy compared to today. Higher education was free, you could rent houses cheaply in the innercity, food was cheap, utilities were a marginal cost (all being publically owned). Jobs were not as well paid, cars were expensive, but on the whole, if you didn't want much you could live easily off very little money.

I compare what I experienced as a 20 something person, compared with the experiences of those of that age today. No job security and no chance of it, exhorbitant housing costs as well as food and utilities. Technology is cheap, so are some other commodities, but its harder and harder for younger people to see a decent future unless they pursue aggressively high paying careers. Teachers, nurses, et al face a pretty uncertain time.

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BYTE:

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If you do not think it's a generational thing, then why are you emphasizing that it is YOUNG people who are not doing their part? If it is NOT a generational thing, that would imply that there are people of ALL ages who do not focus on issues beyond themselves. Yet in your posts and in society in general the blame is always heaped on the young. The YOUNG are always the ones who are called selfish, when the rate of involvement among ALL ages is ALL low.

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I'm still reacting to your post, in another thread, where you VERY generationally brought up how much smarter "young people" are today. That was when I challenged you on a series of projects which I KNOW were completed by "old folks" today... projects which you can't possibly compare to, simply because you don't have the years of experience and active learning that it takes to accumulate the shitload of knowledge required for that depth and scope. There have been studies (I can't recall whether published in IEEE or other prof publication) that older engineers are actually better than younger engineers in programming newer applications (like smart phones). There are all kinds of reasons why, some of them are lack of quality education. But you yourself started this generational thing.

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This struggle is not for everyone

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The problem is everyone's, whether they accept it or not. Some people can't struggle. But everyone will still be affected by the outcome, whether they have struggled or not.

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so I object to this attitude about how we should judge some people because they'd rather deal with their own problems. Life is hard enough. It is apparent to me that if someone has the financial ability and time enough to be active and involved in causes, they're speaking from a position of privilege when they call out those who are not involved.

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See my answer to Magons (below).

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You resent that the greater population doesn't help you? But you are doing this for society in general? You are doing this for them?

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No, I am frustrated that they do not help THEMSELVES, because their lemming-like behavior will eventually pull us ALL over a cliff. Me included. You too. There is a lack of attention to reality that I find frustrating.

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Then take strength from their happiness. Take strength from the stability they enjoy because of your hard work. Take strength from their ABILITY to CHOOSE whether they fight or not. Even if they don't join you. Even if at times it seems like you are alone in your fight and no one else will stand with you. Because you can't take strength from their sacrifices. You can't take strength from their deaths. From that you can only take losses.

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You think I'm doing this to "help people"? I'm not being magnanimous, I see this as a matter of survival.

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I was not advocating violence.

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I didn't think that you were. I wasn't clear, so let me clarify: advocating ANYTHING out of the system is unwise. Advocating violence is just one example of unwise behavior; one that I've specifically avoided.

MAGONS

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I remember once when I was younger, a baby boomer lamenting the lack of demonstrations on campus. By the time I got to university, students were more focused pn jobs,housing and drinking than politics, in the main. I now reflect that this university 'radical' is a wealthy financier who has lived much of his life in New York.

And when i was younger, things were still pretty cushy compared to today. Higher education was free, you could rent houses cheaply in the innercity, food was cheap, utilities were a marginal cost (all being publically owned). Jobs were not as well paid, cars were expensive, but on the whole, if you didn't want much you could live easily off very little money.

I compare what I experienced as a 20 something person, compared with the experiences of those of that age today. No job security a

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1KIKI

Thursday, January 9, 2014 11:23 AM

Byte

I call bulllshit. 'instead of encouraging the generations to work together'

WHAT WAS MY POST AGAIN EXACTLY? IT WAS A CALL FOR YOU YOUNG FOLK TO LEND US OLD FOLK A HAND. Holy crap. That almost sounds like WORKING TOGETHER.


Don't believe me? Go and re-read it. YOU'RE the one who claimed it was blaming, and shaming, and turned it into a generational conflict.


Yanno, without saying anything about your generation YOU'RE A SELF-RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLE.
And a liar.

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RUSH LIMBAUGH is a BLUE PILL ADDICT!

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As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies

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Oh, BTW "Except they ARE smarter than the people working for the intelligence agencies... Because those guys are actually pretty universally dumb. EVERYONE is smarter than them."

So, do you believe in the sheer power of elitism? That JUST BECAUSE you're smarter (or think you are) it doesn't mean they have way more powerful technology than you and the power of law and the corporations behind them? That somehow 'being smarter' is going to magically protect you from all that?

Not only are you an asshole, you're entitled and dumb too.

I'm done with you.

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RUSH LIMBAUGH is a BLUE PILL ADDICT!

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As evidence of "rape mentality"
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:11 PM
MAL4PREZ
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is whore

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
little rappy
The term applies

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Are you implying that anyone who is politically active wa/is coddled? That life is so much tougher today?

I grew up in a very economically depressed hardscrabble rust belt city, where it was damn near impossible to get a job on graduation. My HUBBY, who is even more politically active than I am, grew up in a small hamlet with no running water or indoor toilets. He left university for lack of money, left an abusive home, and lived in an abandoned barn. While his head was getting cracked by the police he was a motorcycle mechanic auditing university classes because he couldn't pay the fees.

This whole concept that "life is so much harder now" is sheer utter hogwash. The people of the Depression and before, who fought for unionization, and the slaves before them, had it far worse than we do today, but managed to do more.

If young people today want to control their future, they have to take power. It's that simple.

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I was describing my experience during my lifetime where I live. Times are much tougher now than when I was growing up (which wasnt in the depression) in the way that I described in my post. My view of babyboomers is that on the whole they are an incredibly priveledged bunch, who reaped the benefits of a whole lot of keynsian policies including free education, health care, a generous welfare system, highly unionised industry, excellent working conditions and made a lot of money by buying into the housing market when prices were low. Of course many of those conditions disappeared, removed by the babyboomer generation themselves when they reached age and power levels to do so. Housing prices driven up by investors, you guessed it, baby boomers. Many of those conditions were hard fought for by political activists of earlier generations, who did have it tough.

And the icing on the cake is when babyboomers bitch and moan about the current generation - pretty much in replication of their own parents who bitched and moaned about them.

So while I acknowledge that those years were ones of significant change in society and there were many political activists who worked hard to bring about important changes, I find the self congratulatory attitudes of people of that era somewhat galling. I might add that I am a babyboomer/gen x cusp era - depending on the dates used.

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There were the boomers and then the next generation - I think it was called Gen-X. As exemplified by Tom Cruise and SHOW ME THE MONEY. It was not my generation on Wall Street only looking for the best paycheck.
As for the supposed privilege of my generation, it didn't happen in this country. It was the age of the Nixon era Vietnam War followed by Carter stagflation followed by Reagan budget cuts - no welfare, foodstamps, low-cost tuition (it was never free in the US), no student aid or all the lovely-sounding things you mention. Plus there was NEVER a healthcare system. I got through school working 2 and 3 jobs while attending full time and living in a dump.

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I never intended to imply that the younger generation were smarter than older generations. The younger generation tends to be more technologically hooked in, however, and also more innovative/adaptable on the technology front.

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You have no idea what it took to invent the transistor. Or write Unix. And that was before my generation. I recognize important developments of the past. I'm not the one claiming that I'm smarter than those "old folks". In fact, it seems with each generation we've been getting stupider and stupider, and I consider myself part of that trend.

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