Alan and Joss....

POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 17:03
VIEWED: 9883
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PENNAUSAMIKE

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
SNIP
To my mind I don't think you should compromise on quality for the sake of fandom.

Dark doesn't equal quality.
Not-dark doesn't equal not-quality.

Maintaining the character dynamics that make a show great IS quality.
Destroying those characters is not a guarantee of quality.

Labeling it "fannish" to think that Firefly is NOT made better
by destroying the Wash-Zoe dynamic,
is an attempt to diminish a legitimate sense of taste.
Shows like Star Trek or Magnum PI are not poor quality
because they don't kill off their main characters.
They succeed because they entertain their audiences with quality shows,
built on sustained character development.

Killing characters is not the only way to avoid
what Joss refers to as the trap of "reset TV".

THESOMNAMBULIST

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:08 PM

Originally posted by pennausamike:

Quote:
Dark doesn't equal quality.
Not-dark doesn't equal not-quality.

Agreed

Quote:
Maintaining the character dynamics that make a show great IS quality.
Destroying those characters is not a guarantee of quality.

Disagree with the first part. And as for the second part, I'm not really sure what can guarantee quality? Neither device works if it's out of context.

Quote:
Labeling it "fannish" to think that Firefly is NOT made better
by destroying the Wash-Zoe dynamic,
is an attempt to diminish a legitimate sense of taste.

No. I happen to think keeping the fans happy all the while compromises the work. I didn't say it wasn't good. I just said it compromises the work. There's really no need to take a point to it's extremes. I happen to think Zoe and where she would go now Wash is dead, equally as interesting as where they may have gone had he remained alive. Neither one notion in inherently better than the other, but I do have a preference.

Quote:
Shows like Star Trek or Magnum PI are not poor quality
because they don't kill off their main characters.

Agreed. I didn't say it was. I was just implying that I would remain engaged with a show longer had characters developed. Whether that means one being killed off I don't know. That wasn't really an ingredient of Magnum. So it may have seemed out of place.

Quote:
They succeed because they entertain their audiences with quality shows,
built on sustained character development.

Isn't that a contradiction.

Quote:
Killing characters is not the only way to avoid
what Joss refers to as the trap of "reset TV".

Agreed. It's one of the ways. Of course there are many. However with a show such as Firefly where the characters are faced with dangers as part of the plot/character/series development , it's not unreasonable to conclude that a death among the regulars was always an inevitability. I am not challenging your distaste for that occurring, indeed I think I've highlighted often how I don't wish to contradict you on that, but I was simply saying that it's no surprise that this happened. And to my mind it's even less surprising given the content of the show.

°...Well here I am.°

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
“How would one unkill Wash?” - Adam Baldwin, Feb 1, 2013

My answer to this remains the same: Don't.

Death happens, in fiction (especially Joss's fiction) just like in life. The story goes on.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 7:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
If Firefly had managed more seasons and in that time our characters continued to face and survive it's dangers, the show would have lost it's gravitas. There are only so many times you can watch your hero's survive perilous battles before the premise of danger, becomes redundant or farcical. Much like the A-Team. After a while it was just a camp joke.

Yep. I don't for a second think that, had the show continued, everyone would have survived. Aside from Joss' track record - Alan has said Wash was slated to die eventually anyway, and of course we now know that Inara was terminal.

Im betting that by the end of this imaginary run, there might only be a couple of the original cast still onboard. Not to say it would have been all death - characters likely would have come and gone for other reasons (much like Book and Inara leaving Serenity), but Joss has never been a huge fan of the ongoing status-quo - which is one of the reasons I like his work so much.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:17 PM

I didn't call you fannish, many professionally written shows survive not killing off any characters. I just said that the only place you're going to find Firefly where none of the characters die is in fanfic, because this is a Whedon show. Main character death comes with the territory.

Your opinion about character development seems to be you should have an arc but that it's too delicate to upset without losing the spirit of the show. But I think writers sometimes HAVE to shake up the setting and the characters or else character growth might slow and become stagnant.

ECGORDON

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
Shows like Star Trek....are not poor quality
because they don't kill off their main characters.

With the exception of the original series, I can think of quite a few character deaths that would have improved the shows.

OLDGUY

Tuesday, March 12, 2013 5:03 PM

Wash has a twin brother...yep...imagine the surprise when the crew first come face to face with him...not a jovial pilot, but a very different guy...worn by the evils and hardships of warn and struggles of an outworld, but with experiences a plenty in Alliance...making his living as a privateer with connections to alliance that make him a genuine hazard to the Serenity family but a huge potential for a sting to the Alliance arm that Mal just can't resist..even if it means pushing his closest crew into the pain of working with a familiar face.

so many possibilities....

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