French cartoon sparks protests
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Saturday, October 25, 2025 15:43
VIEWED: 11178
PAGE 5 of 11
Quote:Responsibility/recklessness is subjective.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You might be able to argue that the middle east is such a powder keg that if this didn't set them off, something else would have. But what you can't deny is that these cartoons and that movie DID set people off, which DID result in violence. And it was also pretty predictable that it would have that result if people became aware of it. That's the definition of reckless.
Short story time: When I was 22, I was riding my brand new bike through a rough part of my city when four brothers waved to me like they wanted directions or something. I've always had black friends, so I feared not & pulled over to see what they wanted, and promptly got kicked off my bike by a fifth dude I wasn't aware of. I grabbed my bike back & proceeded to mentally mark which knees I would attempt to break first when they all seemed to disengage. Cool, I got on my bike & rode away.
So, did I 'cause' them to attack me by being an idiot? Yes & no.
Personally yes & objectively no.
Let's look at this differently- If I had pulled over with greater, more experienced awareness, and had expected them to try and jump me, and WANTED them to so I could straight up kick all their asses, THEN who would be reckless? Or responsible?
Edited To Add:
Stupidity is never a justification for harming someone IMO.
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Interesting bit someone mailed me this morning, seems amazingly relevant to both the topic at hand, as well as a particular section of history y'all might have noticed I have an interest in.
Three Generations of a Hackneyed Apologia for Censorship Are Enough
http://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-hackneyed-apo
logia-for-censorship-are-enough/
Quote:
Holmes' quote is the most famous and pervasive lazy cheat in American dialogue about free speech. This post is not about fisking Sarah Chayes; her column deserves it, but I will leave it to another time. This post is about putting the Holmes quote in context, and explaining why it adds nothing to a First Amendment debate.
-Frem
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Quote:The application of law, much like a superhero's powers, can change according to how the writers want it to go...
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Three Generations of a Hackneyed Apologia for Censorship Are Enough
http://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-hackneyed-apo
logia-for-censorship-are-enough/
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I'm not saying anything about laws and I'm not saying they should stop! Can't I just think these guys are irresponsible jerks and not like their art? Without making a goddamn federal issue outta it?
Or does free speech require me to admire everything someone does in the name of "free speech" regardless of my own personal tastes or whether I think it's a violation of my sense of decency? I don't want to take away rights from the Westborough Baptist Church, because I think that's a slippery slope, so does that mean I think those guys and their message is awesome? NO! They're also assholes! These guys are assholes! THEY'RE ALL ASSHOLES!
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Quote:Byte,
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
But what you can't deny is that these cartoons and that movie DID set people off, which DID result in violence. And it was also pretty predictable that it would have that result if people became aware of it. That's the definition of reckless.Quote:
Reckless, adj. 1. Utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action; without caution; careless
You seem to have no understanding of the nature and causes of violence. That's disturbing in so many ways. I abso-freakin-lutely deny that the cartoons set people off. There is no cause and effect relationship there. Just as NOTHING a child does causes the father to "get the belt," there is no level of blasphemous cartoon that CAUSES riots. Just as NOTHING a woman wears is gonna CAUSE rape. Back in the day, dressing like Madonna was pretty disgusting to a lot of folk, and considered thoroughly tasteless by a lot more, who were offended by women wearing underwear as outerwear. But no one was assassinated over it. The point of these cartoons is that people who riot over such things are crazy. Just because such folk actually do respond to such cartoons with rioting, doesn't make the cartoons responsible for the rioting in any gorram way.
I am kinda surprised by the outrage from you and Niki over the Onion cartoon. The cartoon was making a pretty vivid point, namely, that no degree of blasphemous depiction of any of these religious icons is gonna "cause" any amount of violence. Also, that getting outraged because Ganesha is fisting the Buddha is unutterably silly (particularly given Hindu attitudes about sex!). And Byte, I'm sorry but it's just sex. Really, you're disgusted by handjobs? How would you make the same point the Onion was making? Or do you simply think the point is not worth making?
How is the Onion cartoon not relevant satire, how is it not protest? You're allowing "recklessness" to be entirely defined by the unjust power arrayed against it. I continue to be astonished by the regressiveness of your argument.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Okay. Since none of you want to listen to me or understand what I'm actually saying how about all of you takes your strawmans And EAT THEM.
And HK take your fake civility and concern and eat that too. I don't have to participate in you guys misinterpreting every fucking thing I have to say.
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Strawman??? I'm quoting you.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Find me one place where I said rape victims are responsible or that they deserve what happens to them.
You are strawmanning like crazy, not listening to me and what I ACTUALLY have to say, and I do not have to take this from any of you. ANY OF YOU.
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Um. The whole point of bringing up rape, is to make a comparison between your attitude toward these cartoonists and a similar attitude folks have about rape. It's not a strawman, it's a simple analogy. In terms of the debate, you should be able to differenciate your argument about the cartoons from other examples of abusive behavior "caused" by the behavior of the victims/targets of the abuse.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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I'm pro-rapist HK! Artists are exactly the same as rape victims! That's exactly what this conversation is about. Well done HK you have opened my EYES. These guys and their hateful ugly rhetoric are SO COOOL and we should admire how they've pushed the boundaries of decency and good taste. Because it's free speech, and that makes everything they say admirable. We should have thousands of cartoons just like this! That'll show those CAH-RAAAAAAZY muslims!
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