Film protests: What explains the anger?
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 4, 2024 20:42
VIEWED: 7574
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I found this, in relation to the new "societies" created by the Arab Spring:Quote:
The fall of dictatorships does not guarantee the creation of free societies. There is often a period in which we witness the legacy of tyranny. The Arab uprisings have overthrown tyrants in Egypt and Libya, but the populations and lawmakers have yet to grasp that democracy is not only about free elections but creating free societies.
Arab societies are on a journey. They can easily take the wrong turn. The attacks on the American embassies in Libya, Egypt and Yemen are examples of the ongoing presence of intolerant, tyrannical actors in Arab societies.
These are people who were born and raised in dictatorships. They are accustomed to thinking that a government controls its citizens -- that a film or documentary cannot be produced without government approval. For decades, this has been the reality of their lives, and they strongly believe that the Western world and its citizens have a similarly controlling relationship between individuals and government.
In light of this assumption, they hold the U.S. government responsible for the tacky and distasteful film produced by a right-wing Muslimphobe.
Little wonder, then, that Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy has called for the prosecution by the U.S government of the filmmakers, and Egypt's top cleric, Mufti Ali Goma, has called on the United Nations to forbid denigration of faiths. Morsy studied in the United States and Ali Goma regularly visits the West on the interfaith circuit, yet both men don't yet grasp that religious freedom and the freedom of expression are inextricably linked in America.
It is hard for younger Arabs not born into freedom to understand how individual liberty works in real life.
The freedom to proselytize also guarantees the right to apostatize. Heresy and blasphemy are essential parts of free and democratic societies. Arab activists cannot seek to emulate the West's political and social achievements by looking at the United States and Europe today, but must observe and learn from the religious battles of 17th-century Europe, the smashing of the tyranny of the Roman Catholic Church, the ending of burning witches and the forbidding of hanging heretics.
It is this history of unbolting the doors of dissent that led to the conditions in which John Locke and John Stuart Mill could write and think freely and then influence Thomas Jefferson and the other U.S. Founding Fathers. There are no shortcuts to freedom, except to learn from the mistakes of the West in the past.
The Arab uprisings are not over yet. They are still unfolding and shaping the future. This culture of shouting and killing those with whom Muslims disagree must end. When the Prophet Mohammed's companions shouted "Allahu Akbar," (meaning "God is Greatest," a popular slogan for those yelling outside embassies today) the prophet reprimanded them saying "Our Lord is not deaf."
The millions of protestors last year in Arab capitals that chanted "hurriyah, karamah, adala ijtima'iyya" or "freedom, dignity and social justice" cannot allow for the emotions of bigots to derail their revolution.
Freedom is not only about majority rule, but ensuring that women, religious minorities and intellectual dissenters are able to flourish without fear. http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/14/opinion/husain-arab-spring-democracy/ind
ex.html?iid=article_sidebar
For me, "there it is". That represents some of my original assumptions. They are new to us, have a lot to learn, and it's hard to UNlearn what you've lived under all your life. I wish them well!
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Hmmm...found this, too:Quote:
Terry Jones, a Christian pastor based in Florida who has a long history of making incendiary statements about Islam, is promoting "Innocence of Muslims."
.....
Politicians and the media in the Muslim world have also played an important, though perhaps unintended, role in stirring up violence in the wake of a number of these perceived attacks on Islam.
A YouTube video of "Innocence of Muslims" that provoked the Libyan mob to attack the U.S. consulate in Benghazi was initially published in July, but it was not until versions of it dubbed in Arabic appeared online and were broadcast by religious Egyptian news channel al-Nas that protests sprouted in Egypt.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/13/opinion/bergen-embassy-incitement/index.
html?iid=article_sidebar
So apparently it went unnoticed for a while, unti Jones promoted it and a religious Egyptian news channel aired it. Interesting...
I still think there is n o tie between the filmmaker and al Qaeda. But boy, if someone in al Qaeda spotted it, dubbed it into Arabic and stuck in into the news, THAT would make for a good cover under which to carry out a military assault...Don'cha think?
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God help us all if we can't denigrate religion. ;)
It is very easy - on both sides - to make cultural assumptions. I think the article you posted, Niki, nearly names it.
Not only are many westerners blithely unaware of different cultural attitudes to authority, but those who live in other cultures are also unaware of the west's capacity and tolerance for dissent. Not only do they not understand it, they do not aspire to it. It's why concepts like democracy fail so miserably in many parts of the world. You cannot just start calling elections and feel that it is a victory for freedom, and in many cases, it just opens the door to increased corruption, despotism and anarchy (in the negative sense, Frem).
On the other hand, sometimes any excuse for a riot, a la Sydney. What a disgrace that was, small children holding placards calling for people to behead. It's just dumb and it makes life so much harder for decent, moderate Muslims who disagree with the violence even when they are terribly offended by the film.
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Quote:
WHERE do I start? Perhaps with the viral image that will come to define this episode: a child who'd be three or four hoisting a sign triumphantly above his head blaring ''Behead all those who insult the Prophet'' while a woman, presumably his mother, thinks this is cute enough to capture on her smartphone. Alternatively, I could begin with the observation that the trailer for the anti-Islamic film that ostensibly started this all, Innocence of Muslims, is now a blockbuster, with YouTube hits in the millions thanks largely to the protesters around the world who think nobody should see it.
This is the behaviour of a drunkenly humiliated people: swinging wildly with the hope of landing a blow, any blow, somewhere, anywhere.
No. Let's start with the fact that so few of the protesters who descended on Sydney's CBD this weekend seem actually to have seen the film that so gravely offends them. When asked by journalists, they bluntly admit this, one even adding that she refuses to watch something so offensive. It's almost impressive how cyclical this stupidity is. But it's also instructive. In fact, this is the key to making sense of something so gobsmackingly senseless. The protesters - at least the ones quoted in news reports - know nothing except how offended they are.
That, you see, is all that matters. This isn't about a film. It's about an excuse. We know because we've seen it all before, like when Pakistani protesters vandalised American fast food outlets and burnt effigies of President George W. Bush in response to the Danish cartoons.
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We know because so much of the weekend's ranting was nakedly gratuitous: ''Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell''. Pardon? Which dead? Weren't we talking about a movie?
This is the behaviour of a drunkenly humiliated people: swinging wildly with the hope of landing a blow, any blow, somewhere, anywhere. There's nothing strategic or calculated about this. It doesn't matter that they are the film's most effective publicists. It doesn't matter that they protest using offensive slogans and signs, while protesting against people's right to offend. It doesn't matter that they object to insulting people on the basis of their religion, while declaring that Christians have no morals. This is baffling only until you realise these protesters are not truly protesting to make a point. The protest is the point.
It feels good. It feels powerful. This is why people yell pointlessly or punch walls when frustrated. It's not instrumental. It doesn't achieve anything directly. But it is catharsis. Outrage and aggression is an intoxicating prospect for the powerless.
Accordingly, it is not an option to leave an insult unanswered because that is a sign of weakness, rather than transcendence.
The irony is that it grants an extraordinary level of power to those doing the offending. It puts them constantly at the centre of your world. That's why, when Gallup polled 35 Muslim majority countries, it found that of all the gripes the Muslim world has against the West, among the most pervasive is the West's ''disrespect for Islam''.
And it is this disrespect that is the overarching grievance that subsumes others. Everything, global and local, can be thrown into this vortex: Swiss minaret bans, French niqab bans, military invasions, drone strikes, racist stereotyping, anti-immigrant politics, and yes, even films so ridiculously bad that, left to their own devices, they would simply lampoon themselves.
This is what gives Innocence of Muslims meaning: not its content, but its context. It's a symbol of contempt, which is why protests against it so quickly turn into an orgy of anti-Americanism. So, ''Obama, Obama, we love Osama'' they scream, mainly because it's the most offensive rhyme they can muster. Osama, too, is a symbol; the most repugnant one in their arsenal. How better to prove you exist than to saNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
When have Muslims not been angry? Unrest in the Middle East?....when has there been 'rest'? They don't need and have never needed a frikkin' movie to rile up their empty medieval brains. Annual incomes of under $6,000, and un-employement of 25-50% make for a lot of angry bitter people. I guess when you have nothing in a material sense, you become very jealous of the West's affluence amd freedoms, and then you react like a frightened zombie becoming over-protective and violent at any perceived swipe at the only thing you do have, your religion. The imams whip them up into a flag burning and murderous frenzy saying America is the reason for their misery, while the Muslim Brotherhood government plots with their Al Qaida pals on how to spend the $1.5 billion they get from America every year.
Hmmm, better than Reuben's.
..One more.
Ben!
..My last one.
Okay.
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Thanx, Magons, I found that a very interesting article, and it makes sense on many levels.
Yeah, JS, they're "jealous" of us, that's what it is. Right. Where have I heard that before, I wonder...?
It's sooo easy to judge others when you know nothing about them, and such a shame. But that you should walk in their shoes for a while...but that we should ALL walk in each others shoes for a time, how different the world might be.
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image
,29553/
Quote:
WASHINGTON—Following the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both are having their erect penises vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity anally penetrates Buddha with his fist, reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.
Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons
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You know, we only call Middle-Eastern attitudes "medieval" because "18th to early 20th century attitudes" makes us sound less amazing.
They're only about a century behind the west in terms of "forcing women to cover their heads" and "punishing rape victims as adulterers" and "religious violence," and that might be because they've been bombed repeatedly over the last century.
Also, cave troll, did you really need to post cartoon religious porn on here? Come on. We're going to prove how easily offended Muslims are... By trying to offend each other?
...Please continue.
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Meanwhile, Mitt Romney apologizes to the entire Muslim world for American behavior...
And if you think Americans - especially conservatives - are somehow far ahead of Islam when it comes to social values, you obviously weren't at the Value Voters Summit over the weekend.
Quote:
WASHINGTON, DC — Literature being handed out at the Values Voter Summit on Friday attacks women for being “immodest” and extolled them to “go home and put some clothes on!”
In flyers and brochures on display at Values Voters, the social conservative conference where Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan spoke, an organization called Modesty Matters criticized women for dressing “immodestly” at church, and blamed women for causing men to stare lustfully at them.
Women must “embrace MODESTY in dress and behavior,” one of the handouts read. Women dressed immodestly in church are “an insult to a holy God,” another said.
Other excerpts:
- From the “Modesty: It’s nothing to be ashamed of” pamphlet:“Since men are particularly visual, immodesty in church can trigger lustful thoughts.”
“My men’s bible study group talks frequently about controlling our lust, thoughts, and eyes. Yes the problem and responsibility are ours, but is it really reasonable for the women of the church to make it THIS difficult for us?”
- From the “True Woman Manifesto”: “All women, whether married of single, are to model femininity in their various relationships, by exhibiting a distinctive modesty, responsiveness, and gentleness of spirit.”
The Family Research Council provided Modesty Matters with a table at the conference to distribute these pamphlets.
Republicans have repeatedly voted to cut funding for contraception, outlaw abortions, and defund Planned Parenthood. Now another far-right groups are eyeing a new battleground: the wardrobe.
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/09/14/851401/values-voters-wome
n/
Of course, that's also the same convention at which Mitt and Lyin' Ryan were scheduled to speak with a self-proclaimed "terrorist".
And where Rick "Google" Santorum called the attendees stupid:
Quote:
"We will never have the media on our side, ever, in this country. We will never have the elite, smart people on our side."
Saying that conservatives will never have smart people on their side might be the only honest thing he's ever said.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Also, cave troll, did you really need to post cartoon religious porn on here? Come on. We're going to prove how easily offended Muslims are... By trying to offend each other?
While I am all for mocking the hell out of religion (pun oh so intended), I think one could do a better job than resorting to the lowest humor possible, but then what does one expect from folk whos primary beef with Islam seems to be that they can get away with oppressing women more effectively ?
That said, this so needs a wish-i-could-unsee-that graphic, so this one just for you Byte.
-Frem
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