Don't get mad, it's for our troops

POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Sunday, May 16, 2004 12:45
VIEWED: 14196
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SUCCATASH

Thursday, May 6, 2004 4:06 AM

Bush is using "Support the Troops" to get away with a terrible war. Human lives are worth more than this. It makes me sick.

Earlier than expected, Pres. Bush needs a down payment of $25 billion from US Congress. Why? Because a lot of mistakes have been made involving the Iraq war.

It's costing us and the rest of the world a lot more than expected in money, natural resources and human lives. Since people are likely to complain about the cost of this war, the official government statement is, "It's for the troops."

Well, I think this is a deliberate attempt to avoid responsibility for the mistakes and also to divert our attention from the enormous costs involved.

Bush Asks for $25 billion for Iraq
May 05, 2004
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040506/ap_on_go_pr
_wh/iraq_spending&cid=544&ncid=716

"The Bush administration asked Congress Wednesday for a $25 billion down payment for next year's U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, a retreat from the White House's earlier plans not to seek the money until after the November elections....

"I certainly expect so," Frist told reporters afterward when asked whether Congress would approve the funds. "It's for our troops."

-----------

EDIT:

My president pointed at a country and said, "You're Evil! You are an immediate threat!" And someone yelled, "Support our troops!" and suddenly everyone was cheering like it was a fucking football game as we invaded and raped a country that didn't want us there.

I support my friends, family and all human beings. But I have a hard time separating "government" from "military" and I have a hard time supporting these institutions under current conditions.

I am ashamed and embarrased by my country's actions.

SUCCATASH

Friday, May 7, 2004 3:27 PM

I hope Joss reads this.

CHANNAIN

Friday, May 7, 2004 3:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Bush is using "Support the Troops" to get away with a terrible war. Human lives are worth more than this. It makes me sick.

I support my friends, family and all human beings. But I have a hard time separating "government" from "military" and I have a hard time supporting these institutions under current conditions.

I am ashamed and embarrased by my country's actions.

It is getting harder, isn't it? I've been watching news reports this week as well and seeing the photographs over and over and over again has made me look away in shame as I ask questions.

How can Bush support Rumsfeld?

What were those soldiers thinking? First, to do what they did at all, let alone take pictures of it.

Where are these pictures coming from?

What are we fighting for again?

Can someone explain this to me?

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

HERO

Friday, May 7, 2004 5:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:

How can Bush support Rumsfeld?

What were those soldiers thinking? First, to do what they did at all, let alone take pictures of it.

Where are these pictures coming from?

What are we fighting for again?

Can someone explain this to me?

1. Because Rumsfeld is a competent Defense Secretary and you have to back up your people when they are under scrutiny. If Rumsfeld leaves it should be because of a private choice the President makes, not because of public pressure but rather from inability to perform or desire to leave. But publically a leader should always try and support their team.

2. I suspect you can go to your local jail and ask any convicted felon the same question. They broke the law, their motives are not the primary issue.

3. The military conducted an investigation and is releasing the pictures, thats why Bush reprimanded Rumsfeld for not giving him the heads up before they hit the newspapers. The ultimate source is probably a couple well meaning whistle blowers.

4. Truth, justice and the American Way. Same as always.

5. I know its hard to understand. We live in a new millenium mired in the hatreds and prejudices of the old. A thousand years ago the same religous ideas were being used to justify wars and atrocities. But there has been progress. New ideas are rising to challenge the old ways. Freedom, justice, equality of race and sex. These are the things we strive for and they strive to hold back. Have faith. We shall overcome, someday.

H

CHANNAIN

Friday, May 7, 2004 7:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I know its hard to understand. We live in a new millenium mired in the hatreds and prejudices of the old. A thousand years ago the same religous ideas were being used to justify wars and atrocities. But there has been progress. New ideas are rising to challenge the old ways. Freedom, justice, equality of race and sex. These are the things we strive for and they strive to hold back. Have faith. We shall overcome, someday.

H

Thanks Hero. I needed that.

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, May 7, 2004 7:16 PM

But true freedom would also include the right to reject

" Your Truth, Your justice and Your American Way. "

One of the biggest hurdles in forming a new Iraqi government is trying to ensure they are a pro-American Iraq government who will allow continued military basing in Iraq and honor the Iraqi contracts handed out by the US. Many of the countries opposed to the war are not pro-Saddam, they just cannot agree to this aftermath. If a realistic plan was presented to the security council that did not have these alterior motives, perhaps the outcome would have been different........

" Thats not fair !!!!
I didn't even have a soul when I did that!"

EARLY

Friday, May 7, 2004 8:25 PM

Quote:

1. Because Rumsfeld is a competent Defense Secretary and you have to back up your people when they are under scrutiny. If Rumsfeld leaves it should be because of a private choice the President makes, not because of public pressure but rather from inability to perform or desire to leave. But publically a leader should always try and support their team.

2. I suspect you can go to your local jail and ask any convicted felon the same question. They broke the law, their motives are not the primary issue.

3. The military conducted an investigation and is releasing the pictures, thats why Bush reprimanded Rumsfeld for not giving him the heads up before they hit the newspapers. The ultimate source is probably a couple well meaning whistle blowers.

4. Truth, justice and the American Way. Same as always.

5. I know its hard to understand. We live in a new millenium mired in the hatreds and prejudices of the old. A thousand years ago the same religous ideas were being used to justify wars and atrocities. But there has been progress. New ideas are rising to challenge the old ways. Freedom, justice, equality of race and sex. These are the things we strive for and they strive to hold back. Have faith. We shall overcome, someday.

H

Ah the sweet smell of nationalism (remeber nationalism is different from patriotism). I'm curious...would you have fought for Unification? Oh and by the way as a US Marine my opinion is that the best way to support our troops is to bring them home. To send our troops to far off lands away from their families where they will kill and be killed is not support. To support that you simply support the state or empire which ever term you prefer, but certainly not the troops. Of course several "Easy-chair commandos" might disagree.

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Friday, May 7, 2004 9:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
What are we fighting for again?

To destroy the nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. Oops. How about democratization? No, I know: de-Ba'athification, yeah. Um, to stop torture? Stay tuned.

--
I am Jack's username
FTL in Firefly? < http://jack.p5.org.uk/ftl-firefly.en.html>
Support our serial killers.

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Sunday, May 9, 2004 3:23 PM

Channain asked where are these pictures came from.

The photographs released so far were taken between October and December 2003 at Abu Ghraib prison. Amnesty International and the Red Cross have asked for investigations of widespread killings and torture there long before these specific events happened.

Reservist army specialist Joseph Darby was given a CD with about a thousand photos. Unlike most other soldiers there, he was outraged. On 13 January 2004 he left an anonymous note under the door of the army Criminal Investigation team. He later made a sworn statement.

A guard leader and a company commander at the prison is suspended from duty on 18 January.

On 31 January Major General Antonio Taguba is told to investiate.

Sometime around early February GWB is told about
the charges by Donald Rumsfeld.

Taguba presents his now infamous classified report on 12 March. Eight days later 6 soldiers face charges.

Gen. Richard Myers asks CBS-TV to delay showing the photos they received. The photos are shown on 60 minutes II after other journalists say they'll do it if CBS doesn't.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4765683.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/07/1083911410214.html
--
I am Jack's username
FTL in Firefly? < http://jack.p5.org.uk/ftl-firefly.en.html>
Support our serial killers.

Edited to fix URLs and some copyedit.

SHINY

Sunday, May 9, 2004 3:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
How can Bush support Rumsfeld?

After branding Kerry a waffler, and after having stood behind Rumsfeld publicly more than once, Bush can't afford to dilute his public image of confidence, conviction, and consistency by admitting he made a mistake in hiring him or keeping him onboard for so long. As in other situations, Bush will stand by his previous (and preconceived) decisions and opinions, facts be dammned. Apparently there are a not insubstantial percentage of the American public who view this as strength.

Quote:

What were those soldiers thinking? First, to do what they did at all, let alone take pictures of it.

According to McCain and other experienced senators/congressmen investigating this, it's not just six junior soldiers who one day decided to do this out of the blue (and somehow obtained hoods, electrodes/wires, etc. in the middle of Iraq) but rather it was a result of orders to 'soften up' the prisoners for interrogation by the intelligence branch(es) by humiliating and attempting to break prisoners through sexual abuse (apparently, among neocon schools of 'thought', arabs are especially susceptible to sexual humilation...Rush Limbaugh applauds this behavior, without reprimand or censure from the white house I might add)

Quote:

Where are these pictures coming from?

Digital cameras, laptops, and internet connections really are everywhere. It's also possible that some of the pictures were taken on orders so they could show them to the prisoners later to reinforce the humiliation and further "soften up" the prisoners.

Quote:

What are we fighting for again?

Well, the excuses are pretty much gone now. The first excuse, ties to 9/11, was found to be without evidence to support it. The second argument, MWDs, likewise was found to be baseless. The fallback argument, that we are bringing democracy and liberation and civilization to the people of Iraq and will provide a shining example of how to govern a free people to all the countries of the middle east...well, that seems unlikely given how our international credibility is at an all time low (but as a consolation, hatred and distrust of us is at an all-time high! -- hey, now maybe enough terrorists will spawn from this area that we can support our claim of a connection with Iraq and global terrorism!!!)

The real reason behind all this, as documented by people close to the administration (until they were smeared and character-assassinated after they told the public the truth), is that the neoconservatives in power simply wanted to extend American military influence over the region, in order to better counter/prevent/preempt potential future/imagined threats to our country or it's "interests" (I personally think that all of the money and resources invested in this war would have been better strategically spent on simply undermining their cash cow by investing in research in alternative energy sources -- maybe someone needs to start a campaign about 'winning the war on terrorism with solar power' or something...)

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