Will religion become extinct?

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, February 9, 2025 18:58
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NIKI2

Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:10 AM

To respond to the matter at hand: Rose, while there's nothing wrong with believing in science, religion has been around a lot longer and a lot of what was “religion” has since been explained by science, yet that hasn’t stopped religion from being preferred by many. It seems to me that “magic” is something people more quickly turn to than “science” or rational explanation, when it comes to things they don’t understand. It gets all convoluted when religion RESENTS science for impinging on its “territory” and tries to give it’s followers reasons to hate science...something all too frequent throughout history, and currently.

I don’t know whether religion is on the rise or waning, but certainly in America the signs have been in the recent past (and perhaps right now) that many people choose “magic” (religion) over science. There seem to be no shortage of such believers, who want to foist their beliefs on others and denounce science...so many examples exist, starting with evolution being taught in schools, that don't think it can be denied.

Regarding that, Rose:

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Belief systems started out trying to explain why the world was how it was. Most of them don't do a very good job of it, because they attribute human thinking and such to what is essentially chemistry. Here in the 21st century, when we can actually observe some part of the pattern that makes up the universe, the need to anthropomorphize it decreases.
As the world starts to make more sense, superstitions in general make less.

I disagree—-well, I’d put it another way. Perhaps it IS that the world makes LESS sense to many these days, but it seems that, as I said, many people in the past decade or so have turned away from science and to religion and/or magic to explain things, despite the basis of such things having been explained to them rationally.

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The darkest times in Europe's history tended to center on religion of one form or another.

Yup. Bumpersticker I love: "When religion ruled the world they called it the "Dark Ages".

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Hey check it out, verbal assault on religion without provocation!

Gee, I must have missed that “assault”. I thought we were merely having a discussion...when did it turn into a war? Damn, I just HAVE to stop blinking...

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...Perhaps being told repeatedly that I'm going to burn in hell is why I feel Christians are a mite hostile.

Yup, Rose, me too. I always write it off to fear, the idea that anyone could NOT believe the same MUST be wrong, there MUST be some kind of punishment, or the chosen religion isn’t valid.

I swear, Happy, I don’t see what you do. I see a civil discussion, with some snarking, but no “attacking”, merely exactly what you said, “We can speak of hypotheticals and list all manner of examples presumably from personal experiences and the like.” I certainly don’t see the “verbal assault” you speak of, so that strikes me as odd. Ahh, I see Magons views it the same way I do. I wouldn’t put it down to anyone having difficulty hearing views different then their own, I just find it curious that you see something others don’t seem to, and I’d like to understand why.

What is interesting is that it’s YOU who seemed to become aggressive after you made the remarks about others being aggressive; that I find most interesting. Smacks to me of defensiveness, but obviously I can’t know what’s going on with you. Nonetheless,

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Oh really? I wasn't aware. Are Australians psychic too?

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But that was my mistake. Clearly I should not be speaking for myself, but as a 'nameless concervative No 2460whatever.'

I'll just stop typing and let everyone not me decide how I really feel about this. That's democratic, right?

Those are rather “aggressive” statements, aren’t they? I’m just fascinated by the human mind and how we all see things through our own “veils”, is all.

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A love of the outdoors used to be all I needed to su

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THEHAPPYTRADER

Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:46 AM

So when others do it it's snarking, but but in my case is aggressive/defensive? Can I not just be snarking back?

Assault was a poor choice of words, I think I was playing off of Byte's warfare comment. I guess there's really nothing to argue about unless you tell me I can't have science and my religion or that my religion is wrong.

KWICKO

Saturday, March 26, 2011 1:28 AM

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
People work as jobs have "faith" in what their employer is doing.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Well, I have *faith* that I'll get a paycheck, anyway. Not sure that translates to "faith" in what the employer is doing.

KWICKO

Saturday, March 26, 2011 1:31 AM

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Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
So when others do it it's snarking, but but in my case is aggressive/defensive? Can I not just be snarking back?

Assault was a poor choice of words, I think I was playing off of Byte's warfare comment. I guess there's really nothing to argue about unless you tell me I can't have science and my religion or that my religion is wrong.

Hey, by your own account, when you do it it's snarking, but when others do it, it's an unprovoked verbal assault!

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:15 AM

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
People work as jobs have "faith" in what their employer is doing.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Well, I have *faith* that I'll get a paycheck, anyway. Not sure that translates to "faith" in what the employer is doing.

Mike. Pathetic but honest. It's a pathetic state. But those who work intentionally towards the goal of their job believe in that job, org, or mission statement.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:24 AM

Sadly, not in my life time.

RIONAEIRE

Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:22 AM

Hqappy, I agree with a lot of what you say most of the time, with a few notable exceptions, but mostly we are in agreement in life, you're not alone.

I suppose you have a point about Europe and the dark ages, that was pretty screwed up too. I just hear all these unsavory things about Europe from a personal morality stand point, but it is possible that what I hear gets exaggerated on Oprah etc. I mean I think Oprah's sort of a pain anyway, except when she talks about stuff I care about, then she's okay, to a degree ...

I find great solace in the outdoors too Byte and I see that as part of how I experience God, by being in his creations, the earth and the sky and the woods and the waters.

Rose, I'm glad you're doing and feeling better, it hurts a lot to be in pain, physical or emotional, I'm glad things are going better for you and I'm glad we have science so we can invent medicines and treatments and all of those things.

I view science as something put in place by God for us to learn and enjoy and benefit from.

I don't really think its God's job to solve all our problems. He could if he chose and I ask him daily to fix things, but its his choice whether to do it or not. I think He wants us to figure stuff out for ourselves, be active in seeking what we are looking for, do what we need to do to stay healthy, whether that means taking herbs or taking medicines, or inventing new medicines etc.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

CANTTAKESKY

Sunday, March 27, 2011 4:52 AM

The following story is my motto.
----
I cried to God in anger. Look at all these suffering people. Why don't you do something?

God said, "I DID do something. I made YOU."

-----

1. I don't think prayer is the same as doing nothing, anymore than sleep is a waste of time. There is a time and place for restoration of both body and spirit. I get direction and wisdom when I pray. It is like stopping to look at the map--it doesn't mean you've stopped moving or working.

2. I believe science and religion are complementary, not competitive. Science deals with material and natural questions. Religion deals with spiritual and inspirational ones. Dogmatism is the cause of aggression in both camps. But one can easily be both scientific and religious and not at all dogmatic.

3. I believe all humans have a need, a hunger, for philosophical and spiritual investigation. What is the meaning of life? Why am I here? Is it all random? Where can I find strength and inspiration? etc. You can feed this hunger with philosophy, religion, art, poetry, music, and science. But the hunger itself is undeniable. As long as we have the hunger as a species, religion will always exist as one of the options for feeding it.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, March 27, 2011 8:12 AM

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
Hqappy, I agree with a lot of what you say most of the time, with a few notable exceptions, but mostly we are in agreement in life, you're not alone.

I suppose you have a point about Europe and the dark ages, that was pretty screwed up too. I just hear all these unsavory things about Europe from a personal morality stand point, but it is possible that what I hear gets exaggerated on Oprah etc. I mean I think Oprah's sort of a pain anyway, except when she talks about stuff I care about, then she's okay, to a degree ...

I'm still confused about this moral blackspot that Europe is supposed to be? Can you elaborate? This hasn't come across my radar.

NIKI2

Sunday, March 27, 2011 6:42 PM

Hell, Europe is less amoral than we are, if you look closely. And at least they're more open about it. As I've said before, in America, titilation is not only acceptable, it sells, it's popular...but to show actual nudity? OMIGAWD NO!

Men have affairs all over the place in America, yet we view the French attitude about having it in the open as immoral.

We can blame our Puritan forefathers for a lot of our attitudes toward morality, as well as our willingness to decry others and feel morally superior.

As to religion and science:

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Dogmatism is the cause of aggression in both camps

That about covers it for me. Anyone see "Dogma"? Gawd, I ADORE that movie, it was so right on and so funny...and had my hero Alan Rickman in it, with the genius of giving him EXACTLY the right part. Yes, it represents the worst stereotype of religion, but stereotypes become such because they HAPPEN...often enough to become a joke.

Happy, my response was to point out that your choice of wording became far more aggressive than anyone else’s right after you pointed out that it was unbelievers who were more aggressive. I don’t think any of what you said was intended as “snarking”...snarking generally involves a joke or teasing put-down---here, unfortunately, it includes nasty personal verbiage, but no matter which of those you try to call a snark, I don’t buy that your words were intended that way, I think you were quite serious. It was your choice of wording that I found interesting, given your claim.

I would never dream of telling anyone they haven’t the right to believe in science or follow whatever faith they choose. It’s ACTIONS and THEIR chosen words which offend me.

I think an awful lot of people have no faith whatsoever in what their employers are doing; they’re working to survive, to get ahead, to buy a car, a house, keep their family, etc. But faith in what their employers’ aims are? I doubt it. I worked for lawyers most of my working life...neither I nor any of the people who worked with me (the “lower echelon”, if you will) liked or believed in what the lawyers we worked for did. My last real job was for an insurance company...I knew some of what they did and didn’t approve of it, and nobody I worked with felt any actual loyalty to the company.

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those who work intentionally towards the goal of their job believe in that job, org, or mission statement

Yup. But what percentage of employees represent that?

I knew a lot of those in the “upper echelon” of everywhere I worked who got ahead by kissing ass, fraud, lies, and other means...and they didn’t do it because they believed in what the business was doing, they did it for personal reasons.

You better lose that faith in a paycheck, Mike; who today has faith in the paycheck after next? Not many, I’m sure.

CTS, your quote is right on. What’s the joke about the guy who asked God for help in a flood? The response was he was given warning, he was given opportunity to save himself, but he wanted God to do it for him. Maybe someone remembers the details; it struck me at the time as terribly apropos. Yes, I think that hunger has always and will always exist. I wish it didn’t cause so many to seek a god to answer their individual prayers, keep watch over their lives, and “save” them—-or answer prayers about small, unimportant things. I’d like to see the day we OUTGREW that need, and looked to ourselves rather than some patriarchal figure. That’s just my own private wish because I think, over history, organized religion has done far more harm than good.

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I get direction and wisdom when I pray. It is like stopping to look at the map--it doesn't mean you've stopped moving or working.

You see, for me, “praying” and “meditation” can be the same thing. By praying, many people THINK about the issue and to me, it’s our own brains that give us the direction and wisdom, not some outside force. If people did, yes, stop and look at

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