Giant Angel Spoiler link-- How the Series ends.

POSTED BY: Peace
UPDATED: Thursday, May 20, 2004 05:49
VIEWED: 8820
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PEACE

Monday, April 19, 2004 8:11 PM

Select to view spoiler:

I admit that your suggestions that this spoiler is a red herring is a possibility-- and note that the source does not say it is straight from Joss, but from a "reliable" source. We will just have to see what happens.

If the events depicted in the spoiler are in fact part of the finale, I won't be too heartbroken (maybe a little). Stuff happens when you're battling evil, and Joss has never been shy about showing consequences. We knew we would be in for a rough ride; personally I think it would dishonest any other way.

Having said that, I was saddened by Fred's death; I, for one, always rooted for her character since Pylea (beauty and brains-- a tough combination to beat). That was the passage that was rough for me to take. Yes, Illyria is still around, but, taking the story at face-value, it's not Fred. But, as I said, there are always consequences, and it's not always the bad guys who bite it-- the innocent and good get hurt, too.

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

PARADIGMSHIFT

Monday, April 19, 2004 11:26 PM

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I think that what really kills me is Wesley. I mean, his story arc has been so rich, and it's not nearly over. THe boy deserves some happiness, and to me he's been the heart and soul of this show since his introduction. The idea that he'd be killed off for a plot device just makes me feel physically ill. I know that innocents die. In fact, on these shows, I advocate it, but it simply feels cheap to me that they leave the characters who have only been in a season or less alive, and they kill the ones that actually have soul. It makes the future of the franchise look very bleak to me.

The other thing i had real problems with was the fact that the survivors are all the people who have been on magizine covers of Seventeen, Maxim, ect., and so i almsot feel that a false popularity card is being played. Call me crazy, but it feels like they're only letting the 'hotties' survive the show, which feels like something that would happen on a lesser program, but not here. Here, it's about characters, and I feel that to only leave Spike and Ilyria at Angel's side is a betrayal of the characters and the principles of the show. Ultimately, Joss' shows are about humanity, and how it relates to the world around it. TO kill off the humans seems so very contrary and wrong.

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm hearing about the end of "Dallas" before it happened.

"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

PEACE

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ParadigmShift:
Select to view spoiler:
I think that what really kills me is Wesley. I mean, his story arc has been so rich, and it's not nearly over. THe boy deserves some happiness, and to me he's been the heart and soul of this show since his introduction. The idea that he'd be killed off for a plot device just makes me feel physically ill. I know that innocents die. In fact, on these shows, I advocate it, but it simply feels cheap to me that they leave the characters who have only been in a season or less alive, and they kill the ones that actually have soul. It makes the future of the franchise look very bleak to me.

The other thing i had real problems with was the fact that the survivors are all the people who have been on magizine covers of Seventeen, Maxim, ect., and so i almsot feel that a false popularity card is being played. Call me crazy, but it feels like they're only letting the 'hotties' survive the show, which feels like something that would happen on a lesser program, but not here. Here, it's about characters, and I feel that to only leave Spike and Ilyria at Angel's side is a betrayal of the characters and the principles of the show. Ultimately, Joss' shows are about humanity, and how it relates to the world around it. TO kill off the humans seems so very contrary and wrong.

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm hearing about the end of "Dallas" before it happened.

"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

Select to view spoiler:

I understand your concerns. As for Wes, well, his centrality to the show makes him (for Joss) an even more tempting target-- who better to kill off than someone we care about (it's the principle of doing the worst possible thing to your characters)? We also don't know if something is preventing Alexi Denisoff (sp) from continuing with whatever is going to follow the series, and Joss had to write him out of the storyline (always a risk with this sort of serial story-telling).

As for the other issue, I can't really see Joss playing to popularity. IF (and that may be a big if) what we are talking about comes to pass, there is almost certainly something story-related involved-- I think Joss has too much integrity as a writer to do otherwise. He has certainly shown little sign of such pandering before-- the Buffy ep in which Jenny Calendar died woke me up to the fact that we are dealing with a different brand of catfish in Joss than your usual run of TV bottom-feeders.

And remember, it appears that this finale is set up for some sort of story continuation later. Joss may have something big and grander in mind for down the road. Perhaps all will not be lost in the end....

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

PARADIGMSHIFT

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 3:48 AM

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I suppose it's just the issue of *what* will come once we've gotten rid of all the characters that are emotionally impacting. I adore Joss, and he's never ceased to amaze me, but this sounds like the Superfriends, and not a drama about people. Spike has made me laugh, but his drama has never hit me hard. He's a great peripheral character, but he gets boring when he's front and center. Angel without the snappish wit of Cory or the mirroring struggles of Wesley has little emotional core (example: season two, after he fired the gang, I completely lost interst in the doings of the Dark Revenger), and Ilyria, while she ahs potential, is a Hell Goddess. It's hard to relate to a Hell Goddess, no matter how in pain she is. I just fear that any tv movies without the human element will seem flat, somehow, and lacking in the people yuo can ideantify with adn sob for. Gun can wrench me, Wes absolutely kills me every time he's in pain. Even Fed, when she died, made me tear up, but I have never cried for Angel. I've never cried for Spike, and I've certainly not cried for Ilyria, nor do I expect to. At the moment, she's eye candy, and nothing more. And I don't want movies of eye candy. I want our imperfect humans.

"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

PEACE

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:07 AM

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I'll guess we'll just have to see, Paradigmshift-- and I hope everything works out so that you're happier with the results-- it does sound like you have a good sense of what made the series tick-- and you're right, a storyline about the "Superfriends" would be pretty boring.

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

PARADIGMSHIFT

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:04 AM

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Lord, I hope this is all a bunch of crap being fed to us by a brilliant and conniving Joss, who's laughing somewhere as we fret and stew. I trust in him, and I just pray he maintains that capacity to impress the pants off me. I hope that he's got this brilliant plan of side-tracking us while crazy pyrotechnics are being done in his laboratory of cinema creation.

We shall definitely have to wait and see.

"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

DELIA

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:42 PM

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Angel and his super side kicks? Sounds deadly dull. Frankly, Angel is the character who has interested me the least from the beginning. (I can only take so much of the gloomy, brooding, I-must-atone-for-my-wrongs stuff. He's always so much more interesting when he's evil.) And while I like Spike, I'm not sure what to make of Illyria yet. Either way, two souled vampires and a whatever-the-heck-Illyria-is/will-be do not a show make, at least in my opinion. There's been too much super, not enough human of late (and I really miss Cordy. Spike and Harmony just don't do an adequate job filling the void.)

I guess I look at this proposed ending and just feel cheated. I know this show has been cut off early, but I still want some dealing with all the stuff that was obviously laid out to be dealt with later like the cyborgs that tried to steal Angel's will (in Lineage), oh, yeah, and that whole Shanshu thing. I know they're talking about movies, but I feel sort of like River in Ariel, came downstairs for the shiny presents, nothing left but coal.

It occurs to me that this is the best spoiler-proof thread I've ever seen. Kudos to us!

PARADIGMSHIFT

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:37 PM

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I, too, feel very cheated, because it feels like they're totally ignoring everything they've set up, and all the character arcs to make room for the pretty people (intentionally or unintentionally). Much like a bad Sylvester Stalone flick, it would be all boom and no heart.

I also agree about the Shanshu thing. This entire series has been building to that final goal, and to completely ignore in favor of some, forgive me, LAME-ASS cliffhanger crap, just to promt some tv movies, seems to be so very wrong.

The more I think about this rumor, the more I'm convinced that it just can't be true. Joss likes to shake up his audience, to be sure, but to end the entire series on a note that goes so against everything he and his series' have stood for seems so unlike Joss. I just pray that it's a brilliant red-herring on his part, and he hasn't actually lost his mind.

"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

PARADIGMSHIFT

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:37 PM

Select to view spoiler:

I, too, feel very cheated, because it feels like they're totally ignoring everything they've set up, and all the character arcs to make room for the pretty people (intentionally or unintentionally). Much like a bad Sylvester Stalone flick, it would be all boom and no heart.

I also agree about the Shanshu thing. This entire series has been building to that final goal, and to completely ignore in favor of some, forgive me, LAME-ASS cliffhanger crap, just to promt some tv movies, seems to be so very wrong.

The more I think about this rumor, the more I'm convinced that it just can't be true. Joss likes to shake up his audience, to be sure, but to end the entire series on a note that goes so against everything he and his series' have stood for seems so unlike Joss. I just pray that it's a brilliant red-herring on his part, and he hasn't actually lost his mind.

"Once, just once, I'd like to be able to land someplace and say, 'Behold, I am the Archangel Gabriel.'"
"I fail to see the humor in that situation, Doctor."
"Naturally. You could hardly claim to be an angel with those pointed ears, Mister Spock. But say you landed someplace with a pitchfork . . ."
-McCoy and Spock

DELIA

Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:11 PM

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I know they weren't planning to end here, and I read somewhere that they hadn't made any big changes to the final plotlines when they learned, so if it's true, maybe it was intended to set up season 6.

I also take comfort in the fact that while people die on these shows all the time, very few of them actually stay dead.

Honestly, though, I don't know if I would watch movies if it were just Angel, Spike, and Fred/Illyria. Well, all right, I probably would, but I would spend the whole time grumbing about Wesley not being there.

Dammit, Wes just deserves to end on a high note. Haven't they put the poor boy though enough?

And I really don't like the proposed ending for Lorne. He just wanders off? What's up with that?

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