Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, several wounded

Well, despite Nikes rather futile effort to be reasonable, I honestly don't feel that trying to discuss the matter around here has any point at the current time.

But I leave you with THIS thought.
We are, all of us, participants within the world and society which creates incidents like this, to where people like me can see them coming.

And you need to think about that, and what your participation means, and what form you want it to take.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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I look at this from over the pond and think;"Another politically motivated shooting in the good ol' US of A". I ask myself the question, "Would that happen here?" I have to say "No". Our politics are far more moderate, our gun control will not allow a 22year old to get anywhere near a gun and our culture just wouldn't stand for it.
Obviously we have had our share of total gun toting nutjobs, but over there "every" nutjob has a gun. I would be shitting myself every day if I lived there. Awful situation.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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It's not as bad as that, PK - and decent folk are armed too, one of the fellows who tackled the shooter was CCW, but he did not have a clean shot and made the decision to go hand to hand instead.

Thing is, the nutjobs are *still* gonna have guns, if you remove them from the hands of honest people, all you're really doing is handing them over on a plate - our society is very different in that respect.

It's still just a tool though, not applicable in all situations, nor a pancea for social ills whos resolution is an entirely different and unrelated issue, but the problem is no one wants to be reasonable about it, and those who DO want to reduce the amount of arms in our society always have motivations which preclude any cooperation from folk who get the (all too often correct!) notion that such folk want other folks to ground arms cause that makes em easier victims.

Makes no sense to blame a mere tool when it's clear to me that severe mental illness, a lack of effective, available treatment, and a culture poisoned by fear and loathing is far, FAR more responsible than any mere device, however potent, could ever be.

A nutter like this coulda caused just as much or more damage crashing his car into the crowd as that, and would we blame the availability and ubiquity of cars, then ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
It's not as bad as that, PK - and decent folk are armed too, one of the fellows who tackled the shooter was CCW, but he did not have a clean shot and made the decision to go hand to hand instead.

Thing is, the nutjobs are *still* gonna have guns, if you remove them from the hands of honest people, all you're really doing is handing them over on a plate - our society is very different in that respect.

It's still just a tool though, not applicable in all situations, nor a pancea for social ills whos resolution is an entirely different and unrelated issue, but the problem is no one wants to be reasonable about it, and those who DO want to reduce the amount of arms in our society always have motivations which preclude any cooperation from folk who get the (all too often correct!) notion that such folk want other folks to ground arms cause that makes em easier victims.

Makes no sense to blame a mere tool when it's clear to me that severe mental illness, a lack of effective, available treatment, and a culture poisoned by fear and loathing is far, FAR more responsible than any mere device, however potent, could ever be.

A nutter like this coulda caused just as much or more damage crashing his car into the crowd as that, and would we blame the availability and ubiquity of cars, then ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

---

Well, I can appreciate the argument that anything can be used as a tool. But surely, to limit what kind of OBVIOUS tools can be used is common sense. A guy crashing a car into a crowd of people on purpose will have no escape clause. The car is easily seen, the occupant is easily identified, the amount of consequential evidence that remains after the fact is so vast that it would be virtually impossible for the assailant to get away with it even if he evaded capture at the time.
with a gun, you can hide behind a tree half a mile away, you can take out who you like and you don't even need the guts to do it face to face.
A guy having a bad day can kill who he likes without suffering the consequences of his actions. That's the big difference.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Unfortunately, we're stuck with our guns, PK, and just like the millions of illegal aliens, there's no viable method of getting rid of them. We're stuck with our society. And everything you said is true. There are many more who die every day that you don't hear about because they're not in the public eye; they die by ones and twos and only make the local news. That's not politics, I'm just sayin'. The vast majority of them die by guns. Much as I hate the situation, even I wouldn't call for laws against guns; it's about two hundred years too late.

Would, however, like to know how someone with a felony record and a mental-disorder record could buy one...not that it surprises me, but if we can't do the absolute minimum to keep them out of the hands of someone like that...

Thank BOTH of you for adding something substantive to this disaster of a thread. You're right, Frem, there's no viable discussion possible, this thread should be left to die a quiet death.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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