Real World Event Discussions

Ronald Reagan

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, March 23, 2025 13:17
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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:06 AM

Okay, all joking aside. I am sooo sick of neocons and right-wing nutbags holding up Reagan. It's old, and it was fallacious in the first place.

So okay, here are some facts, as they're facts, I know you close-minded righties won't read them, or if you do you won't be able to grasp them and will no doubt deny them with the usual talking points. But for the thinking, reality-based among us:

Quote:

“This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions. ... All in all, I think we hit the jackpot.” So declared Ronald Reagan in 1982, as he signed the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act.

He was, as it happened, wrong about solving the problems of the thrifts. On the contrary, the bill turned the modest-sized troubles of savings-and-loan institutions into an utter catastrophe. But he was right about the legislation’s significance. And as for that jackpot — well, it finally came more than 25 years later, in the form of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

For the more one looks into the origins of the current disaster, the clearer it becomes that the key wrong turn — the turn that made crisis inevitable — took place in the early 1980s, during the Reagan years.

Attacks on Reaganomics usually focus on rising inequality and fiscal irresponsibility. Indeed, Reagan ushered in an era in which a small minority grew vastly rich, while working families saw only meager gains. He also broke with longstanding rules of fiscal prudence.

On the latter point: traditionally, the U.S. government ran significant budget deficits only in times of war or economic emergency. Federal debt as a percentage of G.D.P. fell steadily from the end of World War II until 1980. But indebtedness began rising under Reagan; it fell again in the Clinton years, but resumed its rise under the Bush administration, leaving us ill prepared for the emergency now upon us.

The increase in public debt was, however, dwarfed by the rise in private debt, made possible by financial deregulation. The change in America’s financial rules was Reagan’s biggest legacy. And it’s the gift that keeps on taking.

The immediate effect of Garn-St. Germain, as I said, was to turn the thrifts from a problem into a catastrophe. The S.& L. crisis has been written out of the Reagan hagiography, but the fact is that deregulation in effect gave the industry — whose deposits were federally insured — a license to gamble with taxpayers’ money, at best, or simply to loot it, at worst. By the time the government closed the books on the affair, taxpayers had lost $130 billion, back when that was a lot of money.

But there was also a longer-term effect. Reagan-era legislative changes essentially ended New Deal restrictions on mortgage lending — restrictions that, in particular, limited the ability of families to buy homes without putting a significant amount of money down.

These restrictions were put in place in the 1930s by political leaders who had just experienced a terrible financial crisis, and were trying to prevent another. But by 1980 the memory of the Depression had faded. Government, declared Reagan, is the problem, not the solution; the magic of the marketplace must be set free. And so the precautionary rules were scrapped.

Together with looser lending standards for other kinds of consumer credit, this led to a radical change in American behavior.

We weren’t always a nation of big debts and low savings: in the 1970s Americans saved almost 10 percent of their income, slightly more than in the 1960s. It was only after the Reagan deregulation that thrift gradually disappeared from the American way of life, culminating in the near-zero savings rate that prevailed on the eve of the great crisis. Household debt was only 60 percent of income when Reagan took office, about the same as it was during the Kennedy administration. By 2007 it was up to 119 percent.

All this, we were assured, was

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, all joking aside. I am sooo sick of neocons and right-wing nutbags holding up Reagan. It's old, and it was fallacious in the first place.

So okay, here are some facts, as they're facts, I know you close-minded righties won't read them, or if you do you won't be able to grasp them and will no doubt deny them with the usual talking points. But for the thinking, reality-based among us


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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:27 AM

Hello,

I have always been of the opinion that Reagan hastened the downfall of the Soviet Union by entering into a debt race with them. Whether this was a good idea or not, I've never seen anyone present evidence that this was not the case. It is this singular event that causes Reagan to be held up as a hero. His actions helped to crash the Soviets. A game of chicken, essentially, that pointed both nations towards the precipice of insolvency, waiting to see who would blink first.

On the flip side, one has to ask two questions.

If the Soviet Union would never have collapsed without Reagan's actions, then does that mean their economy was otherwise sustainable?

If their brand of socialism was not sustainable, then why the spending race? They'd have died anyway, and we could have saved our money.

So, even if one credits Reagan for winning a game of chicken, one has to ask whether the game itself wasn't foolhardy to begin with.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, all joking aside. I am sooo sick of neocons and right-wing nutbags holding up Reagan. It's old, and it was fallacious in the first place.

So okay, here are some facts, as they're facts, I know you close-minded righties won't read them, or if you do you won't be able to grasp them and will no doubt deny them with the usual talking points. But for the thinking, reality-based among us







Hello,

I have to second the disappointed smiley. There's no need to portray the 'righties' as close-minded. Some surely are, and some surely aren't, just like everyone else. If there's anything these forums have taught me, it's that close-mindedness can exist across the political spectrum. Hateful and close-minded individuals should be countered individually. The minute we lump a group together and decry them with a common evil, we become what we rail against.

I would not, for instance, hold AuRaptor's vile vulgarity, or the pride he takes in it, against his party. Tempting as it would be to color them all with the same brush, the majority of Right-leaning folks I've met would never use such hateful language. They would rather present their arguments in a civil tongue.

I do love the name-change, however, and give it two-thumbs-up.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:47 AM

AT, it is easy to get vulgar on this site. But hey understand some here think as if the real world is in a classroom. Ah Reagan the man but he had help Maggie Thatcher and good ole John Paul 2. America was beaten down and egged all over the world. We are the shining light on the hill. He knew that. America's allies who turned their back wanted a strong America nobody respects a weak president. At that time ya had Cuba not just in central america but also in Africa, Soviets moving into Afghanastan as a strike base into the gulf, Communists pushing toward the pacific rim. Top Guns who can't land on the USS Nimitz. We were a joke in the world. Iran holding our people. Reagan brought back a national pride. Straightened up a drug induced military. The economy took awhile to straighten up and did. Now we always have greed in a capitalist society. That is why God is our pilot in life so we enjoy but don't get off track. I never forget Reagan sending a diplomat to the Vatican. Or Maggie taking back the Falklans. And I know people wanted that wall to come down. The trinity stood up and said no more. JP2 went to Poland man that was awesome. Reagan was all apart of that. Handled Libya. It was time that America stop having its head down for just trying to make the world a better place.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:53 AM

My remarks about "righties" were intended to reference the close-minded among US, here, and no others. There are middle-of-the-roaders, and occasionally a rightie or two who is reasonable, but for the most part the true "righties" here ARE close minded and unable to accept facts, or even be open to hearing/reading them.

It was NOT meant to pertain to "righties" everywhere, and should have been caveated to say I meant the really die-hard, nasty ones here on this forum and nobody else. It was in response to a remark in another thread, and I don't need to name the people I'm referring to, everyone whose been here for any length of time knows who they are.

No, I CERTAINLY don't lump all "righties" together, any more than all Tea Partiers or all "lefties"--I know some of the latter who make my skin crawl, and some who have embarrassed me because they are "attached" to a group which often represents what I believe...and I guess because I WAS a "Democrat" for a long time.

I try to take people for how they express themselves, so my remarks were aimed at those here who have expressed themselves, well, you know what I mean.

p.s. What name change? What am I missing?


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:57 AM

Cat, did you even take time to read any of what was posted? I'll be surprised if you say "yes", given what you wrote. It's okay, nobody has to read another's post, I was just wondering.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 2:02 AM

Hello Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,

I apologize if I misinterpreted. I've been sensitive to 'lumping' lately. I think it would be safe to decry 'close minded extremists' of any stripe.

Your moniker made me smile. Thanks. :-)

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 2:05 AM

Funny.

You posted images w/ out permission in attempting to besmirch the the greatest President in the past 150 years.

Bravo.





** ANYONE ** who thinks the Fed Gov't has done " all it possibly can " in response the Gulf Coast oil disaster, or who thinks Obama isn't lying to us all - I have no use for you. You deserve all the animosity and any vulgar "tone" directed your way. ( Anthony , that includes you, buddy. Sorry )

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Cat

Sockpuppet IMO.
Disregard.


The laughing Chrisisall

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