Zero Tolerance vs Sane Society.

POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Thursday, October 9, 2025 16:37
VIEWED: 4170
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ANTHONYT

Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Some people can do more damage with a ball-point pen than a Swiss Army knife...

Whats next? Finger paint?

Sheesh...

A few years ago I saw a prison interview with serial killer John Wayne Gacy. You may recall that his crimes were particularly grisly and demonic. Gacy told the interviewer that he could easily kill him and 2 others in the room with just the pencil he was using to take notes. That stopped the interviewer dead in his tracks, and sent a sober chill down all their spines.

Hello,

I'd make a terrible interviewer, and I'd probably get myself stabbed with a pencil.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ANTHONYT

Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
It's funny- I carried a pocket knife to my small town high school every day, about 40 years ago, without even a second thought. It was a TOOL- I used it to cut rope, tape, cloth, to whittle wooden bits, to cut up my lunch fruit, fix my car. Never even considered stabbing or cutting a person with it. Now I wouldn't last one day before I'd be arrested...

Hello,

My father tells me that when he went to school, lots of high school kids drove pickups with shotgun racks on them onto school grounds, and they'd frequently go out after school and on weekends to target practice with rifles out in the Everglades.

Of course, we all well remember the grisly mass murders and slaughters that High Schoolers committed back then.

There is definitely something wrong with our society and the way that we raise our young. And whatever it is, it's worse than it used to be.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

SIGNYM

Thursday, October 15, 2009 5:20 PM

I learned from a commando how kill a person with a piece of folded newspaper.

I suppose that's a good excuse for not turning in your term paper?

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:34 PM

Oh, sorry - reason I flagged it for y'alls attention is that it's one of the things we DO mutually agree on, that this societys current structures and paradigms are psychologically destructive and badly in need of change to encourage, rather than squish out, human empathy.

Seems like every time I look at a public school these days, I see the stanford prison experiment all over again - and doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is most certainly qualified insanity, one we've taken to a national level.

In order to have a sane society, we first must have sane people - and structures counterproductive to this needs be changed or replaced, yanno ?

That's also why I am checkin out and pushing forth the Sudbury School model, it seems far more effective and humane than running the place like a prison of kennel.

Wouldn't mind your thoughts on the matter, neither.

-F

ETA: Re: Weapons...

One of the very best things I ever learned from my sensai was that the most effective "weapon" in the universe resides between your ears, so long as you use it for something other than headbangin, heh.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

There is definitely something wrong with our society and the way that we raise our young. And whatever it is, it's worse than it used to be.

--Anthony

I think there's two problems: the first is that the world is more stressful and confusing and frustrating than it was forty years ago. The second is that parents are too clueless and trusting, while at the same time, too protective. A combination of too much stress, and not learning how to manage the stress or create solutions to the problems causing the stress. I think many of today's generation, who I count myself among, have become reliant on other people solving their problems for them.

I'm currently trying to learn how to solve my own problems. It's slow going.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:08 PM

Thinking about this some more, wasn't columbine a result of bullying, and that college shooting a couple years ago a result of some guy being rejected by a girl?

People can be stressors. Encouraging empathy and interpersonal skills can help.

RIVERLOVE

Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Some people can do more damage with a ball-point pen than a Swiss Army knife...

Whats next? Finger paint?

Sheesh...

A few years ago I saw a prison interview with serial killer John Wayne Gacy. You may recall that his crimes were particularly grisly and demonic. Gacy told the interviewer that he could easily kill him and 2 others in the room with just the pencil he was using to take notes. That stopped the interviewer dead in his tracks, and sent a sober chill down all their spines.

Hello,

I'd make a terrible interviewer, and I'd probably get myself stabbed with a pencil.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Oh I'm sure you'd make a fine interviewer Anthony. Just stay away from maniacs like Gacy. On another subject...a question pertaining to your signature quote : Does survival ever trump humanity? Thank you.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:30 PM

Hello River,

I'm sure individuals can easily reach the point where survival does trump humanity. However, that must never be the policy of any group or any society. Groups must not be allowed to function with the same compromised morals as desperate, terrified individuals. Once inhumane practices become official policy, then anything can be justified. "Torture? Rape? Mass murder? Well, why not? It's either us or them..."

Warfare is as close as any society should approach towards disregarding humanity in favor of survival. Even then, the war should be approached with the oxymoronic attitude of conducting warfare humanely. That means killing only those you have to, only targeting combatants, and treating the enemy with respect once they have been defeated.

I initially adopted my signature quote upon learning that we were torturing prisoners in Saddam's old torture facility. I felt we were, as a nation, selling our Humanity for a perceived Purchase of Liberty. And in that, we were making a bad, bad deal. I think it generally holds true... If you sell your humanity to buy liberty, then you end up with neither.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

RIVERLOVE

Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello River,

I'm sure individuals can easily reach the point where survival does trump humanity. However, that must never be the policy of any group or any society. Groups must not be allowed to function with the same compromised morals as desperate, terrified individuals. Once inhumane practices become official policy, then anything can be justified. "Torture? Rape? Mass murder? Well, why not? It's either us or them..."

Warfare is as close as any society should approach towards disregarding humanity in favor of survival. Even then, the war should be approached with the oxymoronic attitude of conducting warfare humanely. That means killing only those you have to, only targeting combatants, and treating the enemy with respect once they have been defeated.

I initially adopted my signature quote upon learning that we were torturing prisoners in Saddam's old torture facility. I felt we were, as a nation, selling our Humanity for a perceived Purchase of Liberty. And in that, we were making a bad, bad deal. I think it generally holds true... If you sell your humanity to buy liberty, then you end up with neither.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

I appreciate your response. You make a strong case that organized terrorism can never be justified by groups that believe they've been wronged by the world. But individuals targeted for death and systemic oppression can do almost anything to survive. Is that the gist of it?

ANTHONYT

Thursday, October 15, 2009 8:50 PM

Hello River,

Individuals targeted for death and systematic oppression *will* do almost anything to survive. Once you narrow focus to desperate, terrified individuals, then rules, laws, and morality start to become moot. 'People' might be corralled and directed by society's laws, group honor, and peer pressure... but a 'Person' might do anything, and without much regard to what's right or wrong when their very next breath is on the line.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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