Opinions?

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Friday, August 14, 2009 01:42
VIEWED: 11583
PAGE 1 of 2

1 2 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:31 PM

http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2009/06/white-teacher-speaks-out-what-i
s-it.html

Btw, I personally saw this behavior growing up. SO, I'm kind of curious as to what people think of it.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:39 PM

Also, the authors attempt at doing something about it.

http://martynemko.blogspot.com/2009/07/my-plan-to-close-achievement-ga
p.html

PIRATENEWS

Friday, July 24, 2009 1:39 AM

Dr James David Manning PhD:

We had a local black preacher who ran a local govt bank for inner city loans. He was football star Reggie White's preacher and business partner. His momma used to clean my parents' house. He was arrested for arson of his own church, and embezzled the insurance building funds. He claimed whitey burned down his church, which gave him free publicity to raise money, including from me. Maybe that's why black Reggie White dropped dead?

I give the skools and gubmint a lot of dat credit. "Mandatory" vaccines with mercury to cause brain damage. "Silver" dental fillings with mercury to cause brain damage. DIEt sodas with methanol to cause brain damage and fatness. Food and additives to cause malnutrition, brain damage and fatness. Steroids in skool milk to make girls manly (fat). No relevant classes that actually teach survival skillz, like housekeeping, raising kids, cooking, beauty secrets, nutrition without junk food, how to safely and legally shoot a gun for self defense, The Law and how to argue a lawsuit and win without paying a lawyer, ACTUAL JOB SKILLS so kids can get real full-time jobs and get married and raise a family at age 16 like the rest of the planet. Skoolz a jus prison camps, as admitted in this article, with dozens of cops (the enemy) on the cellblock, er, campus every day. No classes teachin dat whites were the first slaves sold in Ameria, dat CIA imports coke and smack for CIA's black gangs to rob and enslave blacks today in the Prison Industrial Plantation Complex. Dat HIV AIDS is a Pentagon bioweapon to genocide mainly heterosexual black women. Dat Mexicans want to kill all blacks for the jewish Nazi banksters that run the New World Odor to overthrow USA. THAT would get their attention.

Now picture those same black folks with hi-paid govt jobs, that include being told who to vote for. We saw in the military what happens when they get promoted to positions of authority. Not that whites do better by the Peter Principle, just that blacks do even worse. Blacks in lower jobs did just a good a job in hi-tech military positions as did whites, one of my co-workers even appeared on a British TV gameshow with his British Caribbean wife (until he got disabled by Gulf War Syndrome and she divorced him, and his brother burned down his family home in NYC to kill his family).

That's why Obama refuses to release his college transcripts, that show how dumb he really is, and where he's really from. His family even names 2 hospitals he was allegedly born at in Hawaii.
www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_birth_certificate/2009/07/22/238969.
html?s=al&promo_code=83F6-1

Obama used 39 Social Security numbers, like any good illegal alien:

"Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, and then there are ignorant mutherfuckers like you! You can put lipstick on a pig. Sorry ass mutherfucker's got nuttin on me. I inhaled frequently - that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead. That's where I'd been headed. You ain't my bitch nigger, git your own damn fries!"
-Barack Hussin Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father
www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 24, 2009 2:59 AM

My opinion ?

I'd like to borrow one of William Norman Grigg's nice shoes and smack you in the head with it for posting such demonstrably false, racist tripe.

Most of the worst issues within inner city schools have shit to do with race, and everything to do with abject poverty, desperation, and hostility towards a word that has mistreated and neglected them since they popped out.

Public school cannot fix that problem any more than the Justice system can - both solutions neglect the source of the problem being an inherent hostility TO those systems.

Only *people* can make a difference, and in many cases of young black men, Gramma is the LAW, which you might know if you ever looked at this issue from within, instead of from behind the fence of your own inherent biases.

-F

PIRATENEWS

Friday, July 24, 2009 3:16 AM

Not even white teachers or college professors know what a CAFR is, or that the "Federal" Reserve Bank is private, or what Operation Northwoods was, or USS Liberty. Or the facts of the murders of JFK Sr/Jr, RFK, Malcolm X and MLK.

Skools are full of prescription narcotics forcibly given to kids by teachers for ADD, like Ritalin, Dexedrine (Speed) and Desoxyn (Crystal Meth), that cause brain damage.

Kosher Freemasonry founded KKK with jew Albert Pike, to divide and conquer whites from working with blacks, after the Civil War failed to overthrow USA for the British Empire. Pike is the jewish pope of freemasonry, and wrote its bible Morals and Dogma in Hebrew.

Masons are the most racist whites, and Obama is a Prince Hall Mason, since blacks aren't allowed in white Masonic Temples.

The only real school is so-called "homeschool" with mommy at home raising the kids, for both blacks and whites. This is mandatory for survival of a species. Jewish Rockefellers destroyed edjewkashun in USA to overthrow USA for their NWO global plantation to makes all goyim slaves, or kill them.

I went to private military skool starting in 7th grade, which went BK after losing the Nam War, then became just another "Christian" co-ed conentration camp babysitter service. It totally screwed my college edukashun, by banning all classes in algebra (class limited to the speed of the slowest students), geometry, trig, calculas, chemistry, engineering and law. But I did get to get my ass kicked in varsity sports against bigger skools. No blacks allowed, but lots of Hispanic boarding student refugees from the CIA Iran-Contra cocaine wars in Nicaragua, where their parents were Nazi kingpins. Now that skool is Jap only.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 24, 2009 11:33 AM

Ok... well since we can't arbitrarily tear down all public schools, we have to work with what is here NOW.

And what is here NOW, is what the author describes.

Btw, Frem, you should know better. Its not racist to describe things, or to make observations. (I will admit, however, that the writing does smack of world-weariness) However, the author, in the second link, made several proposals on how to actually FIX things.

Which, while not as grand sweeping as your Lets-tear-down-society-and-rebuild plan, has the advantage of (if implemented)actually working.

No, the author didn't coddle the reader. He gave it folks straight. As in, here is the PROBLEM as I've seen it, now here too are possible solutions.

For example, here are the (authors) solutions to what he has observed:

1. Reduce teen pregnancy
2. Provide parenting education early
3. Parenting training for welfare-receiving teen parents.
4. Fully fund Head Start/Early Head Start IF the results of the just-completed major study support its cost-effectiveness.
5. Better train teachers.
6. Flexibly group classes.
7. Dispel the belief that working hard is "acting white."
8. Chronically disruptive students must be placed in special classes.
9. Begin career exploration in grade 6.
10. Give students a choice: college-prep or career-prep curriculum.
11. Require a course in life skills. (THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.)
12. Require colleges to provide full disclosure to prospective students.
13. Try bold pilot studies.

So how is accurately describing a problem, then offering fair solutions, racist?

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 24, 2009 2:56 PM

I guess this topic is too hot to tackle.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 24, 2009 3:38 PM

Wulfie, what's racist is the way he goes about it, and tries to make it a race issue when it's in fact an issue of poverty and trying to use a system that's already abusive and adversarial to educate people who despise it - and flat don't CARE about receiving an education they are unlikely to survive long enough to NEED.

Remember what I said about the similarity between constant low-level fight/freeze/flight reactions and what the school system refers to as ADHD ?

These kids live in the next best thing to a war zone, where death hovers at their shoulder every second of every day, and despite their ignorance of book matters, they are not stupid enough to believe that education is gonna do em much good from a shallow grave, or if like most inner city kids, they have a criminal record from being unlucky while doing the shit you NEED to do down there in order to survive.

It's got jack diddly shit to do with race, mano - and you of all people should know that.

So makin it an issue just fouls the works, causing a divide, needless conflict and raises all manner of hackles and personal issues in the middle of an issue where we MUST bring our A-game if we wanna make an impact, thus peeing in the pool and hindering rather than helping.

Imma hit up and comment on the list in a moment, but I wanted to clarify WHERE my problem was, first.

Remember, I can not only get through to these kids - I can actually recruit them to my purposes and make them rabid self educators by treating them with respect, coming at them in a manner they understand, from within their worldview, and offering them the golden key of opportunities that MATTER to them - I got one kid, Raymond, jumping for joy at having managed to secure funding and acceptance for law school, whose overriding purpose in this is to some day prosecute the same kind of abusive police officers who helped destroy his community, and he is fully supported by his gramma, who watched the decline happen, and cried tears of joy when she read the acceptance letter.

She wasn't too keen on accepting the assistance of a "damn honky", but she does trust Augustus, who's got a solid rep in the community, not to mention the cred I got with the boy himself from an incident almost three years ago, when some assholes pulled a spray and pray driveby while I was visiting the community center, and I grabbed two schoolkids and shoved em into cover behind me out of pure natural reflex - that was Raymond and his little sister, who were amazed that some random white guy would do such a thing, to which I pointed out that wasn't about color, that was about being HUMAN, and we all are that.

Fuck race, this is about poverty, opportunity, and respect - you wanna get these folk to listen to you, you can't drive from your gated suburban community to some school in da hood and then talk down at em like they're some kinda lower life form, you have to come at them from an angle which presents them with a clear understanding of their world, you have to relate to them on a personal level, rather than as an authority figure, cause most of the authority they've seen is directed at them in a hostile fashion.

Oh, and just a little side note - finally got my hands on an old VHS copy of Disney's Song of the South and showed it to Gus - he thought it was right damn funny in it's own way and likened me to Brer Rabbit, since I do fit the "Trickster" archetype pretty well.

-F

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 24, 2009 3:46 PM

"Fuck race, this is about poverty, opportunity, and respect".

Ok, I grant you that part of the problem is poverty. Ignorance breeds when money recedes.. However, if that were the WHOLE problem, then it could be solved simply. Just give every ghetto kid/adult 1 million dollars....

You see where I am going with this....

ETA: Also, I agree that its not a matter of race per se, but of CULTURE. The culture must be improved before any real progress can be made.

And, I will admit, that it did me good to see that I was not the only one to experience these things.

To quote "It can get awful lonely in the black.." (pun intended) Especially when an entire society would like to write you off as an exception to the rule, or as an "Inconvenient Truth"....

Frem, it might do you good to read some of the comments written in regards to this article...

" I did. What am I, a freak of nature?

I'm an exception to the rule, and I'd like to hope that there are more than just a rare few like me. To be honest, there probably aren't a whole lot, and I'll always stick out like a sore thumb.

Reading a whole bunch of stereotypes is a turn-off. But I kept reading, knowing that there are probably a lot of people who openly or secretly agree with everything he says.

This experience will color his view of all blacks, and any that encounter him will automatically have that strike against them.

At the same time, I have to admit that a lot of blacks act exactly as he describes, and unless they get rid of this mindset, they will not become productive members of society. There are more that are as he describes to a lesser degree. Many of my family members, with whom I no longer associate, are like this."

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 24, 2009 4:30 PM

Quote:
Ok... well since we can't arbitrarily tear down all public schools, we have to work with what is here NOW.

No shit, happen to be doing that, without much help from that system and despite a lot of active resistance from it.

As stated, lemme throw some stuff at this list.

1. Reduce teen pregnancy

This one isn't so hard once you get over the hump and get someone respected in the community to front for it, just need to get behind some real matter of fact education and make condom availability and use something celebratory, and get some role models they can relate to acting in counter to thug culture, there's been a couple musicians who've laid into that one pretty good.
UTFO: Burning Bed, Ice-T: Big Gun - classic examples.

My way to front it to em is simple - you put on the nice threads when you wanna impress the ladies, shouldn't your trouser titan dress up for the main event ?
Hell, you pull out one of THESE - you'll double your chances of gettin laid on the spot, homeboy!
http://www.undercovercondoms.com/display-condom.asp?ID=64

All that one requires is that we really try.

2. Provide parenting education early

Hell, providing ANY would help - and the very FIRST person I would go to in order to enlist support for that idea would be Alice Miller.
A lot of bad parenting is ignorance and inadequacy rather than malice, and that can be corrected, if we're gonna offer sex-ed it seems kinda negligent to not follow up, you ask me.

3. Parenting training for welfare-receiving teen parents.

I am not big on "mandatory" anything, but including it as part of a whole comprehensive life-skills program would be a damn good idea - not just parenting, but cooking, basic household maintainence, remedial business-level literacy, budget management, the stuff they NEED in order to break the cycle, rather than a handout and a hassle, like we do now.

4. Fully fund Head Start/Early Head Start IF the results of the just-completed major study support its cost-effectiveness.

I am with that regardless - having a safe, structured environment during the developmental period is a serious leg up for these kids, allowing them to internalise some concept of social order other than the hostile environment of their neighborhood, and the benefits of it are more of a long term payoff that most studies by political folk interested in immediate gain aren't gonna show.

5. Better train teachers.

Oh hell yes - and not just in a subject, but with a required degree of human relations, conflict management and de-escalation as part of the coursework, cause a lot of teachers lack the social and psychological skills to effectively make a class their allies instead of opponents.

6. Flexibly group classes.

Indeed, I've found that two smaller groups can get more across in half an hour, than a group twice that size in ninety minutes, and the breaks between classes should be extended a bit, allowing time to internalise and reflect on the lesson just given - cause in the panicked rush to get across the building to the next class, there's no chance for it to soak in.

7. Dispel the belief that working hard is "acting white."

That's a deeper and more complex concept, you have to acknowledge the basic reality of "What's the benefit to ME ?" - and if the answer is "Not a whole lot", the response is GOING to be "Fuck you."

Working hard for the enrichment of a company's executives, without even the illusion of job security, and knowing that any hope of a pension is gonna disappear with a legalese reorganisation, and no future beyond the ability to offer your children their place in the cycle of enriching others ?

No - you have to offer them something REAL, some hope of realistic improvement of their life, instead of a pie in the sky myth they KNOW is utter and abject bullshit.

Look at Raymond, not only does he open the door to using the systems own weight against it in a form of legal judo, he also nets the immediate benefit of being able to protect his frien

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 24, 2009 4:42 PM

So weve established that its not a question of race, but of culture.

And see? The true answers only come from facing the true realities of things.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 24, 2009 5:53 PM

I see that both Rue and Sig havnt chimed in...

HKCAVALIER

Friday, July 24, 2009 7:31 PM

Frem,

You've been speaking for me without knowing it for a couple few weeks now in threads I find too onerous to really get into myself. You've said everything I'd say here and more.

Hey, if you ever need a ghost writer for your autobiography, look me up. You're an extraordinary person.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 24, 2009 9:26 PM

Wow, I expected more of an uproar over this.

HKCAVALIER

Friday, July 24, 2009 9:56 PM

What sort of uproar were you expecting?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 24, 2009 11:00 PM

That means a lot to me, HKC, really it does.

Consider it your just due for chiming in and saying clearly what I could not find the words to do on many an occasion yourself.

We both have the understanding, I just happen to be down in the trenches carrying the banner forward right in the teeth of matters, cause I can do that, and have just as much respect for those who raise it as a rally banner by personal example at the back of the line, cause that is what THEY are good at, is all.

Besides, what with WWASPS finally crumbling, I happen to be running short of bad guys to hack off at the knees, not that I'm complaining of the lack - just that I am a little adrift at the moment having more or less "won" a "hopeless" fight I never expected to be finished in my lifetime - I mean, how DO you cope with that, yanno ?

-F

PS. Check your PMs.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 24, 2009 11:01 PM

Wulfie, any "uproar" would have to do with the dimwits trying to make it a racial issue when race ain't got shit to DO with it, honestly.

-F

KWICKO

Saturday, July 25, 2009 4:48 AM

Quote:
...just that I am a little adrift at the moment having more or less "won" a "hopeless" fight I never expected to be finished in my lifetime - I mean, how DO you cope with that, yanno ?

Near as I can tell, you sit down for a minute, have a drink and a smoke (if you're a smoker, that is - don't start on my account), and then say, "Next!" before moving on to the next battle.

WULFENSTAR

Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:56 PM

Frem,

I kind of thought there would be an upraor from the lefties/liberals, denying that it would ever be as bad as the author describes.

To me, the author did what the Libs and Conservatives were (and ARE) afraid to do. He got in his SUV (if he were a Conservative), or his Prius (if he were a liberal), and drove into the hood to try and teach.

But what he found there, shatters all the illusions that we've been force fed from infancy.

KPO

Saturday, July 25, 2009 1:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok... well since we can't arbitrarily tear down all public schools, we have to work with what is here NOW.

And what is here NOW, is what the author describes.

Btw, Frem, you should know better. Its not racist to describe things, or to make observations. (I will admit, however, that the writing does smack of world-weariness) However, the author, in the second link, made several proposals on how to actually FIX things.

Which, while not as grand sweeping as your Lets-tear-down-society-and-rebuild plan, has the advantage of (if implemented)actually working.

No, the author didn't coddle the reader. He gave it folks straight. As in, here is the PROBLEM as I've seen it, now here too are possible solutions.

For example, here are the (authors) solutions to what he has observed:

1. Reduce teen pregnancy
2. Provide parenting education early
3. Parenting training for welfare-receiving teen parents.
4. Fully fund Head Start/Early Head Start IF the results of the just-completed major study support its cost-effectiveness.
5. Better train teachers.
6. Flexibly group classes.
7. Dispel the belief that working hard is "acting white."
8. Chronically disruptive students must be placed in special classes.
9. Begin career exploration in grade 6.
10. Give students a choice: college-prep or career-prep curriculum.
11. Require a course in life skills. (THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.)
12. Require colleges to provide full disclosure to prospective students.
13. Try bold pilot studies.

So how is accurately describing a problem, then offering fair solutions, racist?

These aren't the author of the essay's solutions they're those of the man who runs the blog, and posted the other guy's essay.

Very tough issue this, I might add some thoughts later.

Heads should roll

KPO

Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:28 PM

Ok, this tough question.

I think decent people are repelled by the idea that some races are inferior to others, because it’s an ugly notion. Then again, such an idea can still appeal to decent people, if the weight of their experience of a certain race is so overwhelmingly negative (as with the author of the essay), and they need an answer. Racism is the easy answer to the question. Repulsive, but easy – because on the whole, worldwide, blacks are a very underperforming ethnicity, and accounting for this takes a lot of intellectual theorising, which can be exhausting.

Nonetheless, that’s the position I take. The simple answer is not always the right one. The author of the essay is racist quite simply because, clearly, he views blacks as inferior to whites in all respects. In a way I sympathise and am not quick to judge, because experiences like the ones he has had can be overwhelming – and even if they are constructively rationalised, they are bound to affect the subconscious in people, sadly. But the truth is he has reached a wrong, abhorrent conclusion, and his voice on the subject will always be damaging. And so I disagree with the blogger who chose to post the essay thinking it was an important, ‘front-line’ voice. Not that we ought to cover up the accounts of appalling and sickening behaviour by some black people, and some almost entire black communities – it’s a problem that needs to be faced if it’s to be addressed: but that involves going the extra mile in our understanding of human beings.

Here is a basic attempt to do so – my understanding of things.

First of all human are animals, with potential to be civilised – we have noble, societal instincts that can be fostered – or not.

I also have a second, more complex and unique way of trying to understand the situation (not a completely undocumented idea, but one not fully understood and talked about enough, imo, especially in this context). It is that human beings are role-playing creatures (my paradigm for looking at many things, a very profound truth imo). Our sense of identity and the role we adopt in relation to others has a vast impact on how we develop as people, to become good and intelligent and successful and productive, or not.

Why is it that ethnic minorities in different countries generally score lower IQs than the majority population?

Why is that a disproportionately large amount of professional athletes are born at a specific time of year – that makes them the oldest (and most physically developed) in their classes when they start school?

Attempts to answer these questions (especially the second one) will I think show that the roles human beings mentally adopt, how they position themselves in relation to others (especially during their early development), is crucial to the question of human potential being fulfilled.

Heads should roll

ANTHONYT

Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:47 PM

Hello,

It seems that the author of the essay describes events in a way that is colored by his own bias. An example is when the author asserts that certainly, there are fat white people, but you have never seen an anorexic black person.

This is tripe. There are other examples of tripe in the essay. I am appalled to imagine such a person teaching the youths he is charged with. Not only does he have severe bias, evident in his choice of words and perceptions of situations, but he seems to have disconnected from the problems he is facing entirely. He speaks of black people as though they are some flavor of alien entity visiting Earth to attend his classes. He discusses them as though they are Star Trek extra-terrestrials, a homogeneous group with intrinsic traits and behaviors to which there cannot be more than a few notable exceptions.

I have myself attended a magnet school where the majority of students were black (or African American, as the vernacular may hold for those that prefer it.) I learned that there is not so much a 'white' culture or 'black' culture. Poor attitudes, language skills, and other problems are the result of a culture of hopelessness that can cross all racial lines. The generalities that the author ascribes to black people based on his perception of what he is seeing are clearly colored by a strong bias that he carries within himself.

This bias is further evidenced when the author says that white people enjoy a variety of music types, including "God Forbid" rap music. And I have no problem believing that the author would be thankful if God would actually manifest himself and forbid such an abomination from being enjoyed by the superior white population.

The author further asserts that no white girl would accept an advance from a black boy, except perhaps after being guilted into it. This is additional example of his bias, assuming white people to be inherently superior to black people, and capable of co-mingling only out of a sense of pity.

The essay writer makes one insightful comment: "One tragic outcome among whites who have been teaching for too long is that it can engender something close to hatred."

This is of course true about the author as well, though he does not explicitly say so. But it is an insightful comment. If you feel something close to hatred for your students, then you have absolutely been teaching for too long. Please leave the profession.

There is another quote, a statement by a student to the essay writer. I can easily imagine his unspoken reply.

“I cain’t do dis, Mr. Jackson," the student says, “I black.”

"I know you can't" we can almost hear Mr. Jackson say, "but I'm contractually obliged to assign the work to you anyway."

The teacher has bought into, and by doing so continues to reinforce, the culture he despises. Not a black culture. Rather a culture of victimhood. Of helplessness. And of hopelessness.

I am glad he switched schools, though I might wish he had retired from the profession altogether.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

RUE

Saturday, July 25, 2009 11:04 PM

"The point is that human beings are not always rational."

The point is, over time, they are. They will do what works and give up what does not. If you attend school, keep your nose to the grindstone, and get that HS diploma - if you are a black male, you might, MIGHT get rewarded with a minimum wage job at McD's.

How does one rationally respond to a society that is not only fully prepared to throw you away - but already has ?

Or to put it this way: do you find such behavior among minorities in Canada ? In France ? England ? Switzerland ? And, to answer this for you, since you do not - what might be the difference between the US and everywhere else in the developed world ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, July 25, 2009 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
How does one rationally respond to a society that is not only fully prepared to throw you away - but already has ?

Via retaliation by striking at it's very foundations, not to destroy them, but to fundamentally change them.

If human beings are essential evil - this is a lost cause.

But if that, one of the basic foundations of the perceived NEED for so much external control, it's essential justification...

If that is a LIE - then instead of a lost cause, that very change is really our only hope.

And it all depends on what you believe, and the strength of that belief, a very Firefly-ish sentiment indeed.

I believe, do you ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KPO

Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:07 AM

Quote:
If you attend school, keep your nose to the grindstone, and get that HS diploma - if you are a black male, you might, MIGHT get rewarded with a minimum wage job at McD's.

You might end up as president of the United States... Nonetheless it will take a long time to wholly get rid of systematic/institutionalised racism in the US, longer to get rid of the perception of it, and longer to get rid of all traces of its legacy.

I'm afraid I have to agree with that quote about humans not being rational - we're semi-rational at best.

Quote:
Or to put it this way: do you find such behavior among minorities in Canada ? In France ? England ? Switzerland ?

Yes, certainly (though perhaps not to the same extent). It's a worldwide thing, minorities underperforming - just considering one measure of this, IQ scores, as I was referring to before - here's a short analysis of discriminated minority peoples and their documented lower IQ/grade scores:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-inferiorIQ.htm

A good quote:

Quote:
The answer becomes obvious when you compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.

Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants.

One thing that is interesting, in the UK it is white, lower class males who are the biggest school underachievers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/4884880/Ethnic-mino
rity-pupils-race-ahead-of-poor-white-classmates-in-schools.html

A good quote:

Quote:
The Government has poured millions of pounds in to tackling boys' underachievement, yet only 15 per cent of 16-year-old white boys who qualify for free school meals – an indicator of deprivation – leave schools with five GCSEs at grades A* to C, including maths and English.

The figure for black boys from similar backgrounds is 22 per cent and for children from Asian backgrounds, 29 per cent – still low but improving.

Some critics have argued that funding ringfenced for ethnic minority pupils should be redirected.

Heads should roll

RUE

Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:12 AM

"I believe, do you ?"

Caral, Mohenjo-Daro and the Minoan culture on Thera - I don't need to believe it is possible - I KNOW it.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

RUE

Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:15 AM

Underachievement is one thing - a culture like the one described in the letter is another. That culture is what I was referring to, I thought that was pretty clear.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Sunday, July 26, 2009 1:21 AM

"Journalism is just a gun. It only has one bullet. But if you aim it right,
that's all you need. Aim it right and you can blow a kneecap off the world."
-- Spider Jerusalem

Or in this case..

Writing is just a gun. It only has one bullet, but if that bullet is the truth, and you aim it right, thats all you need. Aim it right, and you can blow the kneecap off all the propaganda and lies we've been fed.

KPO

Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Underachievement is one thing - a culture like the one described in the letter is another. That culture is what I was referring to, I thought that was pretty clear.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Bad grades are part of the culture, all I was saying. But yeah, I was half answering your question and half expanding on something I was saying before.

Heads should roll

KPO

Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:59 PM

Quote:
Writing is just a gun. It only has one bullet, but if that bullet is the truth, and you aim it right, thats all you need. Aim it right, and you can blow the kneecap off all the propaganda and lies we've been fed.

I'm all for truth, I think truth is complex though.

A lot of black societal problems are well documented - what propaganda are you talking about?

Heads should roll

KWICKO

Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:09 PM

Quote:
Aim it right, and you can blow the kneecap off all the propaganda and lies we've been fed.

You mean all that crap we've been fed about blacks being inferior, not being capable of giving gifts, and stuff like that?

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
You're an extraordinary person.

You both are.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Btw, Frem, you should know better. Its not racist to describe things, or to make observations.

It is racist to make observations if you only observe the behaviors that reinforce your racist worldview. Mr. Jackson is racist through and through, and I am ashamed that someone associating "libertarian" with his blog would post such racist garbage.

What makes these "observations" blatantly racist is the hasty generalization fallacy. He speaks as if the black students sampled in his classroom represents all black students.

What is more subtly racist is the accusation that because they do not fit in well with the dominant culture, there is something wrong with them. The assumption is that anyone who is not like me is inferior, that any subculture that is not like mine is inferior.

Ultimately, cross cultural communication and understanding was what was needed in that classroom, something that Mr. Jackson sorely lacked. Something that Nemko doesn't understand either, to even reprint Mr. Jackson's BS.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Also, the authors attempt at doing something about it.

These are good ideas, for the most part. But I fail to see why they should specifically target "black" folk. These ideas should be implemented for everyone in public school, period.

Like white parents don't need parenting classes as much as black parents? What is that about?

Sorry. As a member of a racial minority (thought not black), racism irks me greatly.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I am glad he switched schools, though I might wish he had retired from the profession altogether.

Well said Anthony. Me too. I hate to fathom what kind of damage he did to those kids in the years he taught them.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 11:13 AM

I just read some of Marty Nemko's other blogs. He is the type of libertarian that gives libertarianism a really bad name. He oversimplifies issues all through his bias that anyone who suffers does so because they are either greedy or lazy. He imagines that the whole world has good health, mentally and physically, and no one has any reason to not be as successful as he is. So the only reasons he can conceive is inferior character or inferior reasoning.

I have to say, I am getting really tired of libertarians talking as if this is what libertarianism is about. Makes all of us look like assholes with no capacity for compassion or intelligent thought.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 1:15 PM

So....

The article is racist because the author describes what he saw in a less than PC way?

Also, Cant, libertarianism IS about personal accountability.

KPO

Monday, July 27, 2009 2:33 PM

No, the author is racist because he despises black people. The article is the perspective of a racist, albeit a first hand perspective. You can decide for yourself how valuable it is, these two things considered. I would rather read first hand accounts of people who aren't looking through a racist lens - as theirs would be closer to the 'truth'.

Heads should roll

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 3:53 PM

"

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
No, the author is racist because he despises black people. The article is the perspective of a racist, albeit a first hand perspective. You can decide for yourself how valuable it is, these two things considered. I would rather read first hand accounts of people who aren't looking through a racist lens - as theirs would be closer to the 'truth'."

Wait.... so the behavior he describes, somehow, does not exist because you believe he is a "racist"? Is that your opinion?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 4:12 PM

See, here is what I don't get....

Noone is arguing about what the author saw. Noone is saying that the actions he witnessed, and the behavior he describes, is incorrect.

Just that the way he put it was racist.

So, the behavior is somehow.....ok. But describing the behavior in a less than polite (PC) manner is not.

What most people here are saying is... "Thats the way blacks are, but we dont like it when you describe it that way." ?

There is always a lot of talk about subtle racism here, but I would argue that it runs the other way most times.

I keep banging away at this issue, because it is one that is very close to me.

Its one that needs to finally, fully, be addressed. After all, we don't want to be "cowards when it comes to race."

Right?

PIRATENEWS

Monday, July 27, 2009 4:35 PM

Maybe the Bell Curve is due to slavers genociding the smartest, bravest Africans exhibiting leadership qualities, and breeding a domesticated black race for the plantations? That's how you make a weinerdog out of a wolf.

Slavers wrote textbooks on how to use "big black women" to narc and beat black men into submission.

Which is why jews pay Oprah billion$ of "Federal" Reserve Bank debt notes. Gotta keep dem slaves in line at the slaughterhouse.

Note that Oprah ran a local Bilderberg meeting on how to genocide the human race.
www.sodahead.com/blog/81605/can-we-all-say-eugenics/

HKCAVALIER

Monday, July 27, 2009 4:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
So....

The article is racist because the author describes what he saw in a less than PC way?

Also, Cant, libertarianism IS about personal accountability.

Wulf, you've been spoiling for a fight since you posted this thing. And now you decide to get into it with CTS, why? Anthony and Frem already elucidated the situation powerfully and with examples both from life and from the blog.

I think sometimes people lose all understanding of what words mean--it's this whole, nasty fascist wind blowing through the country since 9/11: everyone's biased, all facts are propaganda, meaning is determined by the winner, etc. Don't fall into that habit, fellow freedom lover.

Racism is simply the notion that one race is superior to another. Even if your man grants that certain exceptional members of that race "rise above" the inferiority of the rest, the race as a whole is still inferior in his eyes and he is simply and definitively racist. What else do you think racist means???

It has nothing to do with whether or not he is telling the truth about his particular students--as Frem told you--the problems in Mr. Jackson's class stem from being poor and being hopeless, not from being black.

But the situation is slightly complicated because part of the hopelessness comes from experiences that are culturally bound. You and Mr. Jackson seem bent on this idea that black culture is inferior to white culture and that shows a colossal lack of understanding of history. Hello? For FOUR HUNDRED YEARS in this country white culture used the black race to wipe its collective ass. As slaves, for most of their stay on this continent, black people learned what a slave learns--that they have no value and life is very cheap. Black women were ROUTINELY raped by their white owners, slave families were ROUTINELY split apart to destroy their natural sense of loyalty and family, black men who disobeyed were ROUTINELY lynched for the entertainment of white culture. Can't you imagine the kind of impact that sort of conditioning will have on a people, even generations after the most extreme aspects of their abuse have been outlawed? How such folk will internalize this nightmare and despite their will to change, perpetuate their conditioning?

You need to understand this. Repetition compulsion is real. You cannot simply remove a raped and tortured individual from the rape and torture and assume that they will have a happy trouble free life because of it, PARTICULARLY when, below the surface, you continue their ill-treatment; PARTICULARLY, if you do nothing to rebuild their trust in the dominant culture, and you, as an individual member of the dominant culture, take no responsibility to understand what's really going on--seeing only the most convenient and superficial "tendencies" of a systematically abused people and saying it must be caused by some innate flaw in the race without any thought of your culture's continued part in it.

The gravest evils in the world such as American style slavery and the Holocaust leave their marks upon their victims for generations, long after the external situation has changed. To blame black people for not trusting white culture, or to blame the Israelis for being too aggressive with people who want the Jewish state destroyed is pathetically miopic.

You may say they should all be "over it" by now--move on, quit living in the past. But that, again, shows an utter lack of compassion and personal depth of character. What have YOU done to help them get over it? And from reading that sorry, self-aggrandizing article, what has Mr. Jackson done to help his students?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:04 PM

"Black schools are violent and the
few whites who are too poor to escape
are caught in the storm...."

Se, HK, the problem with your argument is that there are no blacks who were slaves in this country, nor Jews who were lampshades ANYMORE.

These things, which are abhorrent, happened WELL BEFORE OUR LIFETIMES.....as in, hundreds of years ago.

But NOW, as in TODAY, these things are happening.

And yet, nothing is done.

Again.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:08 PM

Oh and sorry... lol

When I read the article I couldn't HELP but think of this stupid "video"....

HKCAVALIER

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Black schools are violent and the
few whites who are too poor to escape
are caught in the storm...."

Se, HK, the problem with your argument is that there are no blacks who were slaves in this country, nor Jews who were lampshades ANYMORE.

These things, which are abhorrent, happened WELL BEFORE OUR LIFETIMES.....as in, hundreds of years ago.

But NOW, as in TODAY, these things are happening.

And yet, nothing is done.

Again.

The situation is slightly complicated because part of the hopelessness comes from experiences that are culturally bound. You and Mr. Jackson seem bent on this idea that black culture is inferior to white culture and that shows a colossal lack of understanding of history. Hello? For FOUR HUNDRED YEARS in this country white culture used the black race to wipe its collective ass. As slaves, for most of their stay on this continent, black people learned what a slave learns--that they have no value and life is very cheap. Black women were ROUTINELY raped by their white owners, slave families were ROUTINELY split apart to destroy their natural sense of loyalty and family, black men who disobeyed were ROUTINELY lynched for the entertainment of white culture. Can't you imagine the kind of impact that sort of conditioning will have on a people, even generations after the most extreme aspects of their abuse have been outlawed? How such folk will internalize this nightmare and despite their will to change, perpetuate their conditioning?

You need to understand this. Repetition compulsion is real. You cannot simply remove a raped and tortured individual from the rape and torture and assume that they will have a happy trouble free life because of it, PARTICULARLY when, below the surface, you continue their ill-treatment; PARTICULARLY, if you do nothing to rebuild their trust in the dominant culture, and you, as an individual member of the dominant culture, take no responsibility to understand what's really going on--seeing only the most convenient and superficial "tendencies" of a systematically abused people and saying it must be caused by some innate flaw in the race without any thought of your culture's continued part in it.

The gravest evils in the world such as American style slavery and the Holocaust leave their marks upon their victims for generations, long after the external situation has changed. To blame black people for not trusting white culture, or to blame the Israelis for being too aggressive with people who want the Jewish state destroyed is pathetically miopic.

You may say they should all be "over it" by now--move on, quit living in the past. But that, again, shows an utter lack of compassion and personal depth of character. What have YOU done to help them get over it? And from reading that sorry, self-aggrandizing article, what has Mr. Jackson done to help his students?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

KWICKO

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:36 PM

Quote:

What most people here are saying is... "Thats the way blacks are, but we dont like it when you describe it that way." ?

I think the operative mistake you're making - and the author seems to be making - is that you're working from a position of "These people act this way because they're black" rather than "these people act this way because they're poor, or uneducated."

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:42 PM

Quite honestly, HK...

I don't care.

I don't care about "rebuilding their trust" or any of the other garbage.

Never owned slaves, never turned Jews into lampshades, never had ANYTHING to do with ANY of that.

But I DID get the "opportunity" to be in one of those "schools".

As a white male.

Sorry. Slavery, Holocaust, ect.. mean NOTHING to me. Other than as a warning of what could happen again.

I lost my pity a long time ago.

KWICKO

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:44 PM

Quote:

Se, HK, the problem with your argument is that there are no blacks who were slaves in this country, nor Jews who were lampshades ANYMORE.

Ummm... hate to burst your bubble, Wulfie, but there are quite a few Jews around still who were actually there in the concentration camps. You seem to think that all this stuff is ancient history, that it happened "hundreds of years ago", but that's simply not the case.

I don't know about YOUR lifetime, but the Civil Rights Act was passed into law in MY lifetime, and it wasn't just a feel-good, unnecessary thing; it was a response to black people being routinely murdered for having the gall to speak their mind to white people, or to ask to be treated as human beings. Hell, sometimes they even went so far as to ask to be allowed to vote!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:45 PM

Sure Kwick,

Then the answer is to take all of these poor kids, give them a million dollars and send them to a good private school.

Right?

KWICKO

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:47 PM

Quote:

But I DID get the "opportunity" to be in one of those "schools".

As a white male.

It certainly sounds like you're still carrying around a world-sized chip on your shoulder about it. This is something in the ancient past, isn't it? Shouldn't you just "get over it" already?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

KWICKO

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Sure Kwick,

Then the answer is to take all of these poor kids, give them a million dollars and send them to a good private school.

Right?

Of course! After all, if someone just gave you a bunch of money, your entire outlook on life would change, right?

Right?

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
See, here is what I don't get....

Noone is arguing about what the author saw. Noone is saying that the actions he witnessed, and the behavior he describes, is incorrect.

Just that the way he put it was racist.

So, the behavior is somehow.....ok. But describing the behavior in a less than polite (PC) manner is not.

What most people here are saying is... "Thats the way blacks are, but we dont like it when you describe it that way." ?

It has nothing to do with politeness. It has to do with accuracy.

If the author had said, the black children I taught at this school, who lived in this neighborhood, acted this way during these years--THAT would be accurate and not racist.

What is racist is when someone says, "That's the way blacks are...." Or "That's the way blacks are and it is a terrible way to be."

Because a generalization like that is based on the assumptions that 1) ALL black students behave the way those students behaved, and 2) that behavior is unacceptable because it is not the way of the dominant culture.

Those underlying assumptions are racist, as in assuming that one race is superior to another. When Mr. Jackson generalize disapproved behavior to an entire race ("blacks") and then defined disapproved behavior based on nothing but cultural discomfort, he was racist.

If he doesn't want to be racist, he should refrain from generalizing to an entire race and judging an entire race.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 5:56 PM

"Of course! After all, if someone just gave you a bunch of money, your entire outlook on life would change, right?

Right?"

Right Kwick...which is why welfare has worked so well...

and after-all, its all white peoples job to change the attitudes of them poor black people... right?

Cus it worked so well in Vietnam...

and Iraq....

Hearts and minds, right?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 6:01 PM

"If he doesn't want to be racist, he should refrain from generalizing to an entire race and judging an entire race."

Except, I saw the same thing.

So did at LEAST 5 other people I know who grew up in 3 different states...

After a while, the evidence starts to pile up and you CAN'T deny it.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 6:06 PM

Like I said,

I lost my pity a LONG time ago.

My hope now, is to try and stop its spread. To educate and to fix what is wrong.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 6:26 PM

"It has nothing to do with politeness. It has to do with accuracy."

BS.

What he wrote WAS accurate.

Just not in the way you were used to.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 6:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"If he doesn't want to be racist, he should refrain from generalizing to an entire race and judging an entire race."

Except, I saw the same thing.

So did at LEAST 5 other people I know who grew up in 3 different states...

After a while, the evidence starts to pile up and you CAN'T deny it.

So like Mr. Jackson, you are also willing to generalize to an ENTIRE race because YOU and your 5 buddies happen to have made similar observations in your limited experience in your limited lifetimes? And you are willing to judge an ENTIRE race based on your generalizations?

That is called racism, buddy.

You know, people who happen to have dark pigmentation in their skin are actually a very, very diverse group. People with dark skin who grew up in Canada behave very differently from people with dark skin who grew up in Africa. People with dark skin who grew up in Alabama do not behave the same way as dark skinned people in Chicago. You get the picture.

I have taught black students who behaved nothing like this description. And they weren't the exception. ALL the black students I have taught or encountered behaved with good manners and used standard English. Does that mean black students in general are well-mannered and used standard English?

Have you considered that the differences in behavior could be attributed to the way these people were raised and the way they were treated, as opposed to the color of their skin or the color of their eyes or the length of their toenails?

It is one thing to collect evidence. It is another to generalize your limited evidence to people and places you have not seen or heard, and probably never will.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
What he wrote WAS accurate.

It was accurate in the context of his classroom. It is NOT accurate in the context of
ALL classrooms containing black students.

See the difference?

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 6:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Sure Kwick,

Then the answer is to take all of these poor kids, give them a million dollars and send them to a good private school.

Right?

You don't have to go that far.

You can start really, really small. It won't cost you a penny.

How about you start by not making statements that begin with, "Black kids...." or "Black students...."?

How about you give all students a chance by treating them as individuals instead of grouping them by the color of their skin and expecting them to conform to your very low opinion of them based on said color?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:02 PM

"You don't have to go that far.

You can start really, really small. It won't cost you a penny.

How about you start by not making statements that begin with, "Black kids...." or "Black students...."?

How about you give all students a chance by treating them as individuals instead of grouping them by the color of their skin and expecting them to conform to your very low opinion of them based on said color?"

How about you try, JUST TRY, living in a ghetto for a year? Without a car, and without a bankroll? How about you give all the money and belongings you have away? (That way you dont have the option of leaving whenever you want?). Quit your job, work at MickyDs?

See how much far your reason and compassion will carry you? See if you want your kids growing up there? See how far your lofty ideals carry you when you had your last bike stolen, your last paycheck taken, and you just had your eye socket cracked?

And ask yourself, how racist you are? Do you want your child being part of that culture? Part of that environment?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:04 PM

"You know, people who happen to have dark pigmentation in their skin are actually a very, very diverse group."

LOL OMG, really? I had NOOO fucking clue.

I never said it had to do with pigmentation... but culture.

And really, ask around. I KNOW it has nothing to do with dark skin....

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:13 PM

Really, I challenge ANYONE who questions that this is accurate to LIVE in it.

THEN, and ONLY THEN, can your opinion have weight.

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:18 PM

Well, Wulf, it seems a LOT of people have come to conclusion I came to a long, long time ago --- you are racist, through and through.

"How about you try, JUST TRY, living in a ghetto for a year? Without a car, and without a bankroll? How about you give all the money and belongings you have away? (That way you dont have the option of leaving whenever you want?). Quit your job, work at MickyDs? "

Been there, done that, except it wasn't just one year --- and if I hadn't made an extreme effort, if I hadn't had certain advantages, I could still be there today.

But I'm not racist.

So your point is ... what, exactly ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:32 PM

Sorry Rue, but I call bullshit on you.

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:35 PM

Yeah, like you would know my life's story.

***************************************************************

So, this is what you do when backed into a corner - deny, deny, deny. Plug your ears, hum and say 'I can't hear you.'

Grow up, will 'ya ?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:38 PM

Ok, pop quiz hotcunt...

52 blocks, what is it?

I can see when you post (the time) so Ill know if you looked it up on the internet.

Quick now...

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:42 PM

You forget, you little twit - I'm old enough to be your grandmother, at least. 52 blocks wasn't around when and where I grew up.

So, Mr 'no one ELSE can be from da' hood, only ME !' - what's a rumble ?

And here's any easy one for you - what's a gang rape ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:44 PM

Thought so.

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:44 PM

You mean you can't answer my questions ? You friggin' pansy.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 7:52 PM

No... what happened, oldnbusted? You saw a black person back in aught 77? When you still had hair and were living on Haight street?

I call bullshit on you cus you dont know shit.

And NOW, in this day and age, when your "ideals" have fallen short (and made the world worse), you are still pushing for them.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 8:05 PM

Like I said.....

I thought so.

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 8:26 PM

Apparently Wulf thinks that if something was before HIS experience it didn't exist. In HIS mind, the whole world started with --- him. There WERE no such things as slums, or ghettoes. There WERE no targets for violence based on race - or sex. NO ONE ELSE ever had anything bad happen to them. NO ONE ELSE ever experienced poverty, hate, and violence.

I've given many clues as to where and when I came up.

For OTHER people's edification (since unlike a simple lab rat, Wulf is beyond learning), answering the challenges one by one:

How about you try, JUST TRY, living in a ghetto for a year?
Or seven.

Without a car ...
Check

... and without a bankroll
Check

How about you give all the money and belongings you have away
Since I started with nothing except the clothes on my back, and accumulated nothing, that would be a check - nothing to give away.

That way you dont have the option of leaving whenever you want
Check

Quit your job, work at MickyDs
Waitress at local dives - any place I could walk to.

In ADDITION - homeless from time to time. Walked to and from wherever I needed to get - or took a bus if they ran that way - through tough hoods (in my day they were called slums). As an extremely pale white person, let me tell you, I stood out. Walked and talked my way out of almost everything, except for the time when a guardian angel in the form of a BLACK store worker kept me from getting raped - by a WHITE guy. Saw bloody people wandering the street. Saw and heard guns. Saw fights.

And, unlike 'Wulf' I'm not prejudiced, and not looking for excuses to hate. I understand that THIS society has throw-away people. People too sick, too dark, too old, and even (still) too female. Prejudice exists - it HAS to. It's useful to some. It keeps people from seeing the naked calculation of profit. It keeps people from seeing who really benefits, and who really runs this place. It keeps short-sighted people like Wulf pitted against each other, thinking that if they are 1/100 of a step above someone else, they have 'won'.

It makes people like 'Wulf' useful tools. Which he is only too happy to be. Because it keeps him thinking he's a 'winner'.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, July 27, 2009 8:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I never said it had to do with pigmentation... but culture.

Which culture is that? The poor culture?

Then why not say, POOR students behave in X and Y manner?

You say, BLACK students. How am I supposed to interpret that except that you are talking about skin pigmentation?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 8:51 PM

Be fair... I never said any of these things. Just agreed with what was written by someone else.

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 8:58 PM

"Be fair... I never said any of these things. Just agreed with what was written by someone else."

Yes, you agreed with a racist.

That makes you a racist.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 9:06 PM

LOL...

and what makes what hes said racist?

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:19 PM

That's it - time for a chops busting.

Quote:
I don't care.

I don't care about "rebuilding their trust" or any of the other garbage.

I say you fucking better.

Look at the monstrosity that is the country and current government of Israel, look at the horrors and atrocities commited in their blind lashing out of what THEY perceive to be "self-defense" despite the near complete helplessness of the Palestinians they happen to be lashing out at - much as the Germans lashed out once upon a time, at them.

Consider it can go the same way, many government officials of that nation both past and present have proposed a Final Solution to their Palestinian problem, although not so often in as many words.

And now follow it down the road, to it's (without intervention) INEVITABLE conclusion.

Fast forward 50-60 years...

And see someone like me cussing the Palestinians for lashing out in the same damn way Israel lashed out at them, over the same fears, with the same reasons.

NOW do you see why this is important ?

If we do not break those chains, they will strangle us - one day strangle us to death.

And another thing...

Quote:
How about you try, JUST TRY, living in a ghetto for a year? Without a car, and without a bankroll? How about you give all the money and belongings you have away? (That way you dont have the option of leaving whenever you want?). Quit your job, work at MickyDs?

See how much far your reason and compassion will carry you? See if you want your kids growing up there? See how far your lofty ideals carry you when you had your last bike stolen, your last paycheck taken, and you just had your eye socket cracked?

And ask yourself, how racist you are? Do you want your child being part of that culture? Part of that environment?

I've been there, son - as you well know, in fact I can still describe every aspect of it enough to freak even YOU out, cause I've done before right here.

Reason and compassion is ALL YOU HAVE, those lofty ideals are ALL YOU GOT left, and if you let go of them, you *SINK* - unless you just happen to get lucky, and luck wasn't a factor - you have to know, or at least suspect just how ruthless a sumbitch I can be when I have to, just what kind of savage monster it takes to claw ones way out, up and over.

I had the ideals and compassion to begin with, in a vague sorta way, but it was that environment, and seeing what it did to folk, that engraved them into the stone of my very soul.

If your ideals fall the minute they are seriously challenged, then they weren't never truly your ideals in the first damned place, and using hardship as an excuse for racism is just fucking pathetic - boo fuckin hoo, so the savages that hurt you and took your stuff happened to be darker than you, so what ?

I've gone head to head with every color of the rainbow, ain't no damn different under the skin cept in the lies people tell themselves to set themselves up higher by stomping down others, and that's plain bullshit and moral cowardice of the same stripe as calling children "born evil" as some pathetic justification for not helping them when it fucking matters most, cause if you can lie to yourself that it wouldn't do no good cause they're evil, or cause they're this color, or this race, or that religion, then maybe you don't have to feel guilty about turning your back on them.

Quote:
Really, I challenge ANYONE who questions that this is accurate to LIVE in it.

THEN, and ONLY THEN, can your opinion have weight.

I have lived it, as up close and ugly as it comes, son.

Difference between you and me is I took the right LESSONS from it, which you clearly have not done - in time, you will understand, I think, but now you keep covering over old scabbed over wounds cause they won't heal, never understanding that ain't gonna happen till you dig out the rot and cleanse it.

You need to seriously examine your own precious preconceptions kid - till you do that, till you CAN do that, you ain't got no right to go challenging those of others cause someone like me

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 10:54 PM

Frem,

I always respect your opinion.

What I can't stand are the wanna-be, fake "JUGGALOS".... (for reference, these are like Jews who dress up in SS outfits, or blacks who wear hoods and sheets)...

For example:

People like Rue, who want to claim the shit they have never been thru. Cus if they had, they wouldn't be the assCLOWNS they are.

Be well, my "ninjas".

*sigh

Rednecks who want to try to be tougher than whiggers, which is an oxymoron in and of itself.... wow.

To quote: "You aint never been to the ghetto, don't ever come to the ghetto.... cus you wouldn't understand the ghetto... so STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THE GHETTO!" - Naughty by Nature

Reminds me of some douchebag that tried to talk tough to a Vietnam vet friend of mine...

Douchy didn't walk away, so much as crawl, with a broken nose and a popped neck.

RUE

Monday, July 27, 2009 11:03 PM

Wulf

You are desperate, for sure. Do you mean to say everyone who goes through shit ends up like YOU ?

That's a frakking poor excuse for yourself. You are a coward. And a liar.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 11:11 PM

Lol Whatever Rue.

You, fake, wannabe.

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 11:29 PM

Btw Frem,

I would reply with a more thorough response.... I just keep getting distracted by the assclowns...

lol

KWICKO

Monday, July 27, 2009 11:35 PM

Quote:

How about you try, JUST TRY, living in a ghetto for a year?

Try 15.

Quote:

Without a car, and without a bankroll?

Well, I guess I cheated, because I did have a car - a wrecked '83 Civic with no radio, no A/C, vinyl seats, a 4-speed manual, 1.3 liters of screaming power...

Quote:

How about you give all the money and belongings you have away?

Well, since I moved to Austin in my car with all my belongings wedged in the back, they wouldn't be getting much. And I had a total of around $700 that I'd scraped together by selling everything I owned to get here...

Quote:

(That way you dont have the option of leaving whenever you want?). Quit your job, work at MickyDs?

Is Micky D's air conditioned? 'Cause I came down here and worked as a tee-shirt printer for $6 an hour - as a temp, because it was the best I could find at the time. Work was in a metal storage unit with a 425-degree conveyor dryer in the middle of it. We put up a thermometer in the middle of the shop one summer day, just because we wondered how how it was. We were going outside to the parking lot to cool down, and it was 105º in the shade. Thermometer said it was 130º inside the shop, what with the metal roof and the dryer adding to the summer heat. We threw the thermometer away at that point, figuring it's best not to know...

Quote:

See how much far your reason and compassion will carry you?

Out of that hell, eventually.

Quote:
See if you want your kids growing up there?

Don't have kids.

Quote:
See how far your lofty ideals carry you when you had your last bike stolen, your last paycheck taken, and you just had your eye socket cracked?

Had two bikes stolen - the last one, they broke into my garage to get it. Had three cars broken into, and one of them stolen. Had a job go belly-up on me owing me 2 months of back pay; does that count as losing one's last paycheck? I've been afflicted with a chronic (recurring) disease that, when it flares up, leaves me legally blind in one eye; does that count?

Quote:

And ask yourself, how racist you are? Do you want your child being part of that culture? Part of that environment?

How racist am I? Well, since none of these things were done to me by black people, as far as I know, I tend to not be very racist, or at least I try not to be. As I said before, I don't have children, but I don't have a problem with the idea of children working hard to improve themselves. Do you?

Oh, and since you're handing out pop quizzes, try these:

What's "Cranklin Park"?

What's an Eastside Hummingbird?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

WULFENSTAR

Monday, July 27, 2009 11:44 PM

Never lived in Texas. Austin or otherwise...

So, I don't have the answer to your quiz.

But...

at least I have the balls to say it.

But if an "Eastside Humming bird" is anything like a "Ghetto bird"... thats a cop chopper.

ETA: btw... its STILL not the same if you CHOSE it.

KWICKO

Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Never lived in Texas. Austin or otherwise...

So, I don't have the answer to your quiz.

But...

at least I have the balls to say it.

But if an "Eastside Humming bird" is anything like a "Ghetto bird"... thats a cop chopper.

ETA: btw... its STILL not the same if you CHOSE it.

Ah - so in order for anyone else's opinion to be valid, they have to not only have done time in da 'hood, but they have to have been in YOUR particular 'hood, huh?

I don't recall Rue ever saying she was from your same 'hood, yet that didn't stop you from "calling bullshit" on her about her life. And she specifically said,

Quote:

You forget, you little twit - I'm old enough to be your grandmother, at least. 52 blocks wasn't around when and where I grew up.

So at least she had the balls to admit that she didn't know what the hell you were talking about. Your response was to call her a cunt, a fake, a liar, and a wannabe.

Yet YOU don't know dick about the ghettos in Austin, or anywhere else. So doesn't that make YOU a cunt, a fake, a liar, and a wannabe?

And what do you mean I "chose" it? I moved here because the only print shop in San Angelo closed its doors and left me jobless. I moved here with no job and no promises, figuring it couldn't be any worse than where I came from. It was, but I stuck it out. My "choice" involved living where I could afford to. So why did you "choose" to live in the ghetto? Surely you could have just left, right? After all, if you're so much about "personal responsibility", why didn't you leave your ghetto-ass house and get the fuck out way earlier?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

KPO

Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:39 AM

Quote:
Wait.... so the behavior he describes, somehow, does not exist because you believe he is a "racist"? Is that your opinion?

Nah, I've never questioned the events described. And i made it clear in what way the author qualifies as a racist - check with a dictionary for a second opinion.

But let me give you an example of how his racism can colour the supposed 'truth' of his account, from his essay:

"There is something else that is striking
about blacks. They seem to have
no sense of romance, of falling in love."

And he goes on to extend this to a general all round lack of emotion and empathy. The generalisation to all 'blacks' is the racism talking of course, but putting that aside can we trust his interpretation of things? Can we trust a person who despises black people, and sees them as less than human, to see the moments when their humanity might be shining through?

Hmm.

You admire this man for his unashamed reporting of the facts Wulf, that much is clear - and I'm with you on that. What I'm not sure of is whether or not you care about the author's blatant racism - or even admire him on that score as well...

Heads should roll

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:05 AM

"You admire this man for his unashamed reporting of the facts Wulf, that much is clear"

Yes. I do. Un-apologetically, I do.

You do bring up a good point kpo, and one that I agree with. The author does cross a line in saying that blacks are incapable of human emotion.

I disagree with him on that point. Rather, I say, his experience has clouded his judgment and made him bitter. ALMOST to the point where he (the author) no longer see blacks as human.

In this, he and I diverge.

Bitterness can make you see people as less than human, which one must never do. True, its easy to do so. Animalistic behavior can make even the most rational person want to write off another group.

But you shouldn't and I don't.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:09 PM

Btw,

I bugs the hell out of me that even the most ardent folks here.... who say they want to make things better, ignore this.

Their answers are "Its the governments fault" or "Its the corporations fault"... but never look outside their windows and DO something about what is there.

RUE

Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:20 AM

"Their answers are "Its the governments fault" or "Its the corporations fault"... but never look outside their windows and DO something about what is there."

Me, I'm all for going after the sumbi**h who's throwing the babies in the river. Not that you'd understand the reference. You'd actually have to READ people's posts to do that. Something which is beyond you. You're so blinded by what you ASSume, you can't see what is there.

***************************************************************

And yes, you are still a coward. And a liar.

KPO

Saturday, August 1, 2009 1:39 AM

Quote:
In this, he and I diverge.

Bitterness can make you see people as less than human, which one must never do. True, its easy to do so. Animalistic behavior can make even the most rational person want to write off another group.

But you shouldn't and I don't.

Cool. I personally like to give people the benefit of the doubt on this, until they come out themselves and say something overtly racist.

But I hope you understand the point of view of some of the other people here, on this difficult issue. To my mind, if facing up to the full scale of the problem is the first step towards fixing it, then weeding out all racist opinion from the arena of ideas is the second. As any policies inspired in any way by racism will be damaging and divisive, indeed, they are largely what we have to thank for the current nightmare situation.

One right-wing thought on this issue that I think needs consideration is that government provided welfare is part of the problem here: the thought that we as human beings don't need a whole lot of encouragement to be idle, I am quite receptive to, as somebody with a low opinion of human beings.

Heads should roll

KWICKO

Saturday, August 1, 2009 2:14 AM

I've been pushing "workfare" for 25 years now - the concept that yes, you WILL get your welfare check, but not for doing nothing at all. You are going to WORK for it. You're going to do SOMETHING productive, whether it's clean up a park, paint the benches, mow the grass, work in the library, work in a soup kitchen, or what have you.

Now, this isn't going to be a full-time job. It's going to be 20 hours a week - which leaves you PLENTY of time (and incentive) to get a better job. You're going to get basically a minimum-wage 40-hour paycheck for 20 hours of scut-work that you're going to hate. Or at least you SHOULD hate it. That's the kick in the ass to get you moving and get you on your way. Hey, if you're going to have to WORK for your money, you might as well be doing something less miserable for better pay, right?

Anyway, it's a thought. Doubt anything will ever come of it, though.

Another thing to get people "motivated" - REQUIRE them to go to classes one day a week. Job interview practice, resumé classes, job-search classes with online resources, etc. If you want your welfare and/or unemployment check, you go to classes. If you want your food stamps, you go to cooking classes to show you how to make nutritious meals with the stuff you can get with food stamps.

This isn't intended to SHAME people, but to HELP them. If they're ashamed and if they're bored and hate this stuff, then more power to them; by all means, move up to a better gig and get off the welfare rolls!

Sure, there are going to be people to say they have no skills. Bullshit. EVERYBODY can do SOMETHING. Typing. Filing. Washing windows. Cleaning toilets. And if you're content doing that kind of "make-work" for minimum wage, feel free to keep doing it; the world needs ditch-diggers, too...

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:20 AM

Problem with that, Mikey - was the execution.

See, I saw a couple folks victimised by it, and every single one turned to crime - EVERY SINGLE ONE.

There was Lydia, who's mandatory classes were held 17 miles away, several miles off the bus route, and involved training on office PCs and software so laughably outdated it was all but pointless - and child care expenses plus taxi fare left her in a bad financial position where she HAD to dump the program and go back to prostitution in order to eat.

And let's not even go there about the night the taxi company refused to dispatch a cab to that neighborhood and she had to call ME for a rescue, and then hide from a pack of gangmembers who decided to burn a discarded sofa in the middle of the street for entertainment, and I had to yank her into the passenger seat while spinning tire up the street while they pelted my car with stuff...

Or James, a rarity already in being a single father and damn near illiterate, close enough it makes no nevermind, who'd have to be literate in the first damn place to fill out the paperwork, much less get any use out of the classes, and who couldn't find ANYONE trustworthy to watch his kid unless he blew his entire check on daycare, which would render the whole exercise useless - he went back to pushing drugs.

NONE of these programs ever take into account the ugly realities of no transportation, no available childcare - often enough resulting in working poor folk leaving kids way to young for it home alone to fend for themselves, caught between the scylla of social services and the charybdis of being too poor to buy food.

And where does the car insurance payment come from, or the payment for the phone bill, on top of the rent, heat, water... on minimum fucking wage, on in the case of "workfare" programs, even LESS ?
(Or the car, and bribes for emissions-inspection-registration-tags, which is WAY worse in MD than anywhere else I've seen.)

And in a rare case of when they DO take into account those realities, I guarantee you that every mandatory appearance will be at an office as far away from you (and very specifically, as far from any bus stop) as humanly possible while in the same county just to wear you out, grind you down, and make you give up - I've BEEN through that, over my medical care, complete with dragging a friggin hoffman external fixator through snow and slush in midwinter thank you very much, and as such I have a DAMNED low opinion of that game.

So while the concept itself ain't so bad - every execution of it I have seen, personally and from point blank range more than I cared to - has been outright malicious and set up not to help those people, but to drive them off the rolls by any means necessary, uncaring of their survival or that of their children.

Not to mention the bitter and intentional humiliation often dished out by these so called programs leaves folk at a mental breaking point, like the lady down the street who wouldn't TAKE help from no one despite being in dire straits indeed, to the point where I would sneak her kids sandwiches on the sly whenever I could - poor that I was, damned if I could watch that and live with myself, and it ain't like PB&J spread thin costs that bloody much, neither.

You know what'd help a lot though ?

Have the freakin welfare system ITSELF employ them as priority - you could train a bloody kangaroo do be an office drone, and having seen most of the personnel they DO employ (often with ridiculous levels of "required" qualifications, to prevent exactly this) I dare say most of the poor folk would do a better job, and THEN they get a leg up with actual job experience they can put on a resume - wouldn't be room for everyone, but hell, just that many people, six months at a time, would elevate a lot of em from the rolls to working poor, and office drones make at least enough to live on.

Oh yes, and of course do SOMETHING for the redemption of the folk who had the misfortune to get CAUGHT doing the shit you NEED TO DO in order to survive down there, and have a crimina

KWICKO

Saturday, August 1, 2009 1:07 PM

Frem, I've got a feeling you and I could have a LONG conversation about this, and probably even come up with some workable solutions. Would they help everybody? Nope. Nothing ever will. But they'd damn sure do a better job than what we've got.

You talk about training these folk to work in the welfare offices and such - that's pretty much what I'm suggesting; I just didn't word it well. Your local, state, and federal buildings and grounds get people assigned to them first - "office drones", janitorial help, groundskeepers, etc. I know there are going to be people who decry this as tantamount to slave labor or indentured servitude, but it's not; you're free to leave and do better on your own at any time.

One BIG thing that would have to change would be the confrontational attitude that seems to always rear its head between those who need help and those who are the gatekeepers. From what I've seen, they tend to despise each other. How do you get both sides to see this as a collaborative effort?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college...

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, August 1, 2009 9:34 PM

Quote:
One BIG thing that would have to change would be the confrontational attitude that seems to always rear its head between those who need help and those who are the gatekeepers. From what I've seen, they tend to despise each other. How do you get both sides to see this as a collaborative effort?

Start with a housecleaning, hire some decent supervisors and start FIRING people who go out of their way to use the system as a roadblock instead of a leg up - if they don't genuinely want to help those folk, then they can damn well find a new line of work, yanno ?

I got sick of being jerked around, lied to, and as you well know, I happen to be the type that will fight on to the very last breath, and when the office supervisor cussed out my LAWYER and hung up on him, I managed to barter some transportation and went down to North Broadway to the main office and got in the face of the big cheese personally by cornering her outside her office - and then when she denied I had a case on file at all, I pulled it out of my bag and tossed it to her, damn fools had piss poor security, an ancient terminal-based network, and I'd been in the building for half an hour prior to that, meh.

It should NOT take, should not HAVE to take, physical, personal threats to get these folk to do their job, and spending three days dragging that nightmare pincushion thing through the snow filled streets to collect paperwork for the bastards only to have them "lose" (third time I actually dumpster dived it and found the "lost" forms) it by throwing it in the trash was completely over the top by any stretch of the imagination.

The lies, obfuscation, harrassment and general chicanery the folk employed by welfare offices engage in is quite legendary, although seemingly not newsworthy, and many of the supervisors are under pressure to let it slide, or even encourage it - and don't even get me started on that faith based shit where they manipulate folks into their stupid little cult and only help them in exchange for tithe - another dirty little secret the mainstream news ain't bothered to cover.

And regardless of any lip service to the contrary, the very moment you get your first paycheck, nine times outta ten guess what happens to ALL the help, neh ?

Actually, it's even worse than that, AFDC and SSI will actually send you a fucking BILL for the last months benefits, before you even get to CASH that first damn check, even if it's for five measly hours!

And I better stop now afore my temper gets the better of me - yeah, we could have a long conversation indeed, but best to have it somewhere away from breakable stuff, this is a berserk-button issue with me, it is.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 10, 2009 5:21 PM

I keep pushing the issue, because, like everything else... its the ambush down the road.

10 years from now, these kids are going to be adults. And if they arn't in jail, or dead, they will be walking amongst us.

So, what are we going to do?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, August 10, 2009 5:33 PM

I hear alot of TALK, but no action.

CUDA77

Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I keep pushing the issue, because, like everything else... its the ambush down the road.

10 years from now, these kids are going to be adults. And if they arn't in jail, or dead, they will be walking amongst us.

So, what are we going to do?

Let them walk amongst us.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I hear alot of TALK, but no action.

What exactly are YOU doing that's so actiony?

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
10 years from now, these kids are going to be adults. And if they arn't in jail, or dead, they will be walking amongst us.

So, what are we going to do?

10 years ?

Wulfie, I been in this game longer than that, some of em are ALREADY walking amongst us, and working like happy grinning psychotic bees at wrecking the everliving SHIT out of the system that crapped on them for the first eighteen.

And there's three more generations behind those - the first of which got the torch passed to them Feb 2009 - and every damn one, the collective piece of it on *my* side is twice the size of the last.

Look up exponential growth, and see why I ain't too damn worried about it just yet.

-F

RUE

Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:57 PM

Wulf

You spend an awful lot of time blaming 'them' for your life. I'm guessing you've been doing it since you were small. And with your piss-poor ability to learn anything new, you'll do it till you hit your grave.

So, let me ask you this - and see if you can answer.

If you get to blame 'them' for everything that went wrong in your life - who do they get to blame for everything that went wrong in their lives ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

RUE

Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:38 PM

Mike, Frem

You are forgetting something - there are not enough living-wage jobs in the country for everyone.

With roughly 10% unemployment real unemployment may be in the 15-20% range, since unemployment figures only count people who are currently receiving unemployment checks.

Our economy is BASED ON there not being enough jobs to go around. If you want to change welfare, you have to change the economy.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:13 PM

Rue, jerk that he can be, one has to give Wulfie credit for the daring to expose many of his core beliefs to us so that they can be repudiated or validated - instead of silently thinking he knows all there is to know, and that everything he knows is right - while I am sure the process isn't exactly pleasant for him given how fondly folks hold to their core beliefs, questioning them is the first step to changing them.

Of course, he's not gonna come right out and SAY that, if he even realizes that's what he's doin, cause the nature of most folk won't allow em to.

But see, before you change the economy, or political structure, or any bloody thing else, you have to change the way people think and feel, and the only way to do THAT, is to get to them before they are corrupted and help them resist the programming - and oddly nature seems to be helping out a bit, I am seeing a LOT of kids with high resistances to psychiatric drugs (not necessarily a good thing for kids with real problems, but a natural response to multiple generations of drug-pacified normals) and even recently a few who I might deem programming resistant, the latter of them, a couple come out as downright STRANGE...

Despite developmental circumstances that rightly should have prevented them from ever developing it, or at least hindered it, some stimulus, some kind of trigger, caused a chain-reaction in their little heads that not only sparked human empathy in them, but a variation of it SO amazingly strong it affects everyone in the ROOM with them, even if they do nothing - thankfully them and their legal guardians are willing to help investigate the why, cause this is very much a certain development I have been anticipating/expecting since about 1978, although we currently have no idea HOW it happened.

I am right damn serious, when they "turn it on" you can literally FEEL it, from across the room, don't ask me how, and there's two of em, completely unrelated and they didn't know each other before - of course now they're tight as twins, and have their own games, like using it for a form of nonverbal communication to try to get over on the adults, lol.

Anyhows, it's freak-you-out fascinating, and makes me wonder if we're not on the very cusp of a comparatively mild evolutionary adjustment.

But back to my point, you have to change the way folk think and feel before any of the other changes stand a chance of lasting more than one generation.

Spotted an article by Levine that spotlights some his own efforts and discoveries regarding kids who've decided not to "play ball" all on their own, and it's becoming WAY more common every day.
http://counterpunch.org/levine08072009.html
" something is missing from the liberal-conservative “problem child” debate. What’s missing is the possibility that nothing is essentially wrong with these kids. What’s missing is the possibility that they simply don’t fit into the dominant culture that has opted for efficiency, bureaucracy, and corporate feudalism at the expense of meaningfulness, diversity, and genuine democracy. What’s missing is the possibility that perhaps there is something admirable about their rebellion against authoritarian hierarchies and manipulative relationships."

I plan on backing that play, as long as I am still around to do it, myself - it's gonna be their world, it oughta be their show - we had our chance, and we fucked it up, so who are we to tell them what to do ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

1 2 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE