Mal's gun

POSTED BY: RIPWash
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 23:13
VIEWED: 55571
PAGE 1 of 1

RIPWASH

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:57 PM

Just very recently I was reading a thread where Mal's gun (available at Quantum Mechanix, think) is pretty high on most people's wish list. Needless to say, I needs me some o' dat, as well.

I was just wondering if anyone here actually has it and what's it like? Is it as cool as it seems?

$150 is a pretty hefty sum, but with a little bit o' saving up and sweet talkin' the wife, I might be able to pull it off. LOL

Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 6:05 PM

Initially I had every intention of buying it when I got my paycheck today. But over the last week or so I did a bit of research. The gun is based off of the Serenity gun, though that's not really that big of a deal. The one big thing I noticed, though, is that for as nice as the gun is with its metal dust and hand weathering and such, it looks to be entirely the wrong colour. It's that goldish colour, and every time I've seen the gun on-screen it's been more black than anything. What I ended up doing was going with the Mal's Pistol you can get on the Austin Browncoats' shop site. It's $57 as opposed to $150, and if it winds up not being what I'd like (It's from a kit, but they put it together and paint it and all for you), then I can save for the $150 and sell this one fairly easily on eBay. It's not so great going the other way 'round I'd imagine.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 5:09 AM

Mal pistols:

These are the three of the many available Mal pistols.

I own two of the resin models cast from the original Firefly screen-used versions.

The gold/brass replica is the officially licensed QMx version cast from the Serenity movie version.
If you liked this Mal pistol, which was considerably different from the Firefly version, this is the way to go.
The brighter, brass-ier finish is correct for the BDM "Serenity" pistol.
http://www.quantummechanix.com/stuntpistol.html
I would also note that support for officially licensed products is one measure of the viability of the Firefly/Serenity franchise.
Just sayin'....

The disassembled metal Mal pistol is the Sidkit version from Italy.
http://www.sidkit.com/mal-gun/metalgun.htm
I modified the barrel holding method with a shoulder bolt coming into the back of the barrel for support.
This method also gives me the means to have a dummy operating mechanism seen in the magazine well
when the clip is removed.

I also bought two sets of wood grips for my Mal pistols;
one set for the metal Mal and one set for one of the resin Firefly Mal's.
The only disappointment is that the wood used was oak,
which has a very different grain pattern than the walnut that was originally used.
I have the walnut, I just don't have the carving skills to do much with it.

Of the Mal pistols I don't own, the Arsenal Models/Coolmodels version is the WORST!

Badly proportioned, undersized and grossly inaccurate;
I recommend avoiding this version at all cost.

Wilco Models offers a Mal pistol kit made of resin in three pieces.
This is a fan-made effort that isn't accurate in the details,
but captures the essence of the original.

At forty bucks and easy to assemble, it is a good value for the fan who isn't wrapped up in the props from Firefly/Serenity,
but who just wants a pistol for costuming or casual display.

The best was a brass recreation with a working trigger and removable magazine,
known as the Model 47, that went for about a coupla grand.
You won't be seeing that one in my collection!
Below is a picture of one that a lucky collector did acquire.

I think there was a non-functioning brass version made, but I can't say for sure.

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 6:12 AM

2 questions.

1. Is the Sid-kit one still available anywhere? The sid-kit site is gone I do believe - every link I've followed has been dead.

Also, what are some of the 'details' missing in the Wilco one? I couldn't see any real differences between it and the "Official" one other than colour (And the blackish is truer to the show) and the little Shoulder Strap hole, which the movie version doesn't have...

EDIT: 3rd question: Which one is the best? I know that's sorta what was asked above, but the gun I ordered is on back order, so there's time to cancel it and order a different. Is the "official" one the way to go?

AG05

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 6:20 AM

I'm still waiting for some ingenious browncoat with a machine shop (and the proper licensing from the ATF, of course) to develop a working pistol of this design. I'd be first in line to get one.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 1:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AG05:
I'm still waiting for some ingenious browncoat with a machine shop (and the proper licensing from the ATF, of course) to develop a working pistol of this design. I'd be first in line to get one.

I'd be right behind you!

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Officer / Battalion O.I.C.

http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:
2 questions.

1. Is the Sid-kit one still available anywhere? The sid-kit site is gone I do believe - every link I've followed has been dead.

As far as I know, the owner of Sidkit recently passed away.
They sold new for $250 plus shipping and now go for $200 and up when you find them.
Ebay is a possible source and the RPF junkyard occasionally sees them come up for sale.
Sorry, I just copied and pasted the post from my collection thread here,
http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3541&sid=763e6c14e3876e56
1d8e6098d4d844a4

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:

Also, what are some of the 'details' missing in the Wilco one? I couldn't see any real differences between it and the "Official" one other than colour (And the blackish is truer to the show) and the little Shoulder Strap hole, which the movie version doesn't have...

The contour of the grip is different than the original.
The Mal pistol grip has swoopier lines like a Colt percussion pistol.
To my eyes, the Wilco rendition loses some of the "grace" of the original Firefly-version of the Mal pistol.
The rear sight and hammer are not like the original; different enough that I don't care for it.
Because it is a fan interpretation and not scaled off an original, its not dimensionally perfect.
But like I said, the Wilco captures the essence of the Firefly Mal pistol.

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:

EDIT: 3rd question: Which one is the best? I know that's sorta what was asked above, but the gun I ordered is on back order, so there's time to cancel it and order a different. Is the "official" one the way to go?

Define, "best".
They are all different.

The Wilco is the least expensive and the least accurate.

The Sidkit is metal, accurate, the most expensive and out of production.

The QMx is cast from the original movie version and is the best value IF YOU LIKE THE MOVIE VERSION.
I personally do not care for the attempt to turn the graceful old-west lines of the series pistol
into a bright, brassy Sci-Fi looking thing.
QMx only has the license to do props from the BDM.

The dark finish of the original series pistol was a plum-bluing over brass.
But to my eyes, the finish is secondary to the bulked up magazine and the changes that take away from the western look of the series pistol.

Mike

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 2:52 PM

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 3:56 PM

By 'best' I meant that I have enough to get the Quantum Mechanix one right now, but is it worth the extra money to get it over the Wilco one?

I hadn't seen those differences you pointed out looking at the pictures, but now that you've mentioned them, they kinda stand out. I KNOW I would have picked up on it when it got here.

I'm tryin' to find a Sidkit one since I have the money and it would be easier (I think) to fix the finish on that than to do so with the QMx one.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:14 PM

An excellent thread and well timed for me. I was chatting with a fellow about the fan film we're working on and one item of requirement has always been an Independent Army NCO sidearm.

aka: Mal's Pistol

My only point of frustration exists in the vein of many other issues: constant inconsistancies. The largest we have run into so far is "Independent Flag, star up or down? Black or Blue?" With Mal's pistol, new issues arise.

Those being that several different styles exist and to confuse the issue just a little more, the canon pistol of the show differs slightly from the canon pistol of the film. From what I see this relates to the Brass finish of the film that stands in contrast to the more "gun metal grey" of the show. I think I have a solid notion of what happened here: Just like the engine of the ship, the firearm was "improved" for a major motion picture. With the larger engine one could rationalize the change by proposing that Serenity recieved a much needed upgrade retrofit after the crew scored a great heist (Can you see the happy Kaylee now? No more broken compression coils!) but with a unique Independent Army war-relic...uh...change is kinda a problem.

My current plan is to carefully examine the films depection of the sidearm & cross-reference it to the sidearm from the show via frame freezes. Then I will compare them with the protrayal of the weapon in the comics Those Left Behind and Better Days to find some kind of a "best-fit" middle ground. At the moment I'd say I lean more towards gun-metal grey, but that's just because I'm more loyal to the TV show than the film.

Pennausamike: you seem to possess a wagonload of knowledge on this subject, perhaps you could help me? What would you recommend? The $2000 model is certainly out of my film budget price range but the others are all in line. I'm not planning to go cheap.

PIRATENEWS

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:19 PM

Trivia question:

Does the Malgun eject each cartridge like a semiauto, to retain each shell like a revolver?

Or are we not supposed to ask such questions?

I never noticed any ejected shells.

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:25 PM

I'm pretty sure it retains. As bloopers will attest, the entire magazine comes out as opposed to sliding out like a revolver :P

Also, I emailed the customer service from Whedonwares (I'd placed an order with them for the Wilco model and was gonna cancel it), and they emailed me back with some interesting news. They're sending me closeups of the Wilco and the QMx from their personal collection ("Beth" who says she works for QMx), and she says that both the Wilco AND the QMx were cast from original prop molds, with the Wilco coming from the TV one.

She also said that while it hasn't even begun production yet, they are still planning on making the all-metal gun which I'd all but forgotten about given the time it's taken.

I'm waiting for the pics, but I think I may stick with the Wilco.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Trivia question:

Does the Malgun eject each cartridge like a semiauto, to retain each shell like a revolver?

Or are we not supposed to ask such questions?

I never noticed any ejected shells.

The real film gun is a revolver buried in a semi-auto looking frame; hence no ejection.
The "fictional" explanation would be the use of consumable case ammo.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

Pennausamike: you seem to possess a wagonload of knowledge on the subject, perhaps you could help me? What would you recommend? The $2000 model is certainly out of my film budget price range but the others are all in line. I'm not planning to go cheap.

Give me a day to find the comparison info for the film pistol versus the series pistol.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Wednesday, May 6, 2009 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
Give me a day to find the comparison info for the film pistol versus the series pistol.

Cool. I eagerly await.

There is a gunsmith near to where I dwell who I have a notion about approaching to inquire if he might retro-fit the model I choose with a proper wood stock grip. Beyond that, I painted warhammer figures for several years and retain the paints. A few hours of drybrushing Warhammer "Boltgun Metal" onto surface high points with some dark inking of the low areas may well yield the used grey-metal look I want.

Also I'm quite annoyed that Universal felt they had to stamp their involvement into the under side of the freaking barrel for the "offical" Serenity movie replica. I refer to image #14 in the gallery:

http://store.quantummechanix.com/Official-Malcolm-Reynolds-Stunt-Pisto
l-Replica_p_22.html

grr. Arg. Yea that's beautiful isn't it? A nice Universal Studios Copyright stamped right into the material. Certainly nothing a hand grinder + a little model patch can't solve I suppose.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, May 8, 2009 5:21 PM

*Bump*

Just trying to keep this thread higher for a little longer. Also, I thought I'd relate my comic book analysis of the sidearm.

First off: Better Days doesn't give us much angle on the weapon. You see it in Mal's hand a couple of times but you have to squint to see any detail, if there's any to be hand

But: Those Left Behind offers terrific panels of the pistol. Most importantly is at the very start of the story when Mal faces off with a competing thief over a heist. After giving up his goods to his foe, he's told to surrender the pistol itself because as the other fellow says "I have a thing for antiquities". We get three great panels showing color and surface detail of the sidearm after that.

Based on those images I'm inclined to further lean toward the pistol as it's depected in the show rather than the film. It's drawn in an obvious "gun-metal grey" color to match what we see in Firefly and not the bronze coloring of the offical Serenity replica. Most confusing to me is that the comic was drawn after the film, not before.

I guess the overall answer for my film is that the pistol can be whatever fans what it to be. That's too bad because I really wanted a solid "This is what it is" conclusion. One nice thing that came from the comic however was the statement "I have a thing for antiquites" which proves my belief that the pistol is a relic no longer manufactured. I had been told 3 years ago that it was a standard issue sidearm to all Independent NCO's and that many of the pieces were lost during the war thus leading to it's rarity. I'm not sure that jives with the paperwork that accompanies the $149 Universal Studio's replica which implies a private ownership sale.

I'm hoping someone can shed some light.

AG05

Saturday, May 9, 2009 5:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Trivia question:

Does the Malgun eject each cartridge like a semiauto, to retain each shell like a revolver?

Or are we not supposed to ask such questions?

I never noticed any ejected shells.

As others have said, I assumed it was a semi-auto firing caseless ammunition.

As a firearms enthusiast, I keep praying that someone will manufacture a working semi-auto that replicates this design. Of course, the closer I look at it, the more complicated the design gets.

Starting with the magazine. A single (or even double stack magazine of the size udes in Mal's gun would hold 3, maybe 4 rounds of .30 cal carbine ammo. (I picked .30 carbine because it's the smallest viable round I can think of at the moment), one you factor in space for the follower and spring. However, a detachable Mannlicher-type rotary magazine (think a scaled up 10/22 mag) might hold 6 rounds in the same vertical space. Of course, this magazine would be quite a bit wider than the single-stacks shown in the photos.

Next problem: the slide.

This is where caseless ammo would come in handy. In a semi-auto weapon, the rounds feed up and forward from the magazine to the chamber. This means that everything from the magazine to the hammer consists of the extractor, firing pin, and a shitload of reciprocating metal. For the sake of arguement, I'm imagining the little T-shaped indentations of the prop guns (above the mag) to be roughly where the ejection port goes. The firing pin itself is a cause for concern. Assuming the pin runs from the hammer, all the way to the rear of the chamber, you're looking at a firing pin about 5 inches long. Damned fragile.

The recoil springs are, I assume, located on the 2 rods the extend on either side of the mag, but they seem to me on backwards (that is, if they are there to serve a guide rods, the recoil springs should be fixed to the front of the rods, so as to compress the springs when the slide moves back under recoil).

Finally, grip angle: I'm not entirely sure which bits of this gun are supposed to reciprocate during cycling, but wouldn't want the webbing of my hand in the way when they did. That old west revolver grip angle just seems too shallow for safe operation. Not to mention that this gun would be all kinds of muzzle-heavy.

I'm sorry if this post reeked of gun-nerd. But I'd love to be able to take a real-life Browncoat pistol to the range one day. Right now the closest thing out there is the Ruger Charger, which I'd love to get my hands on to try and create a reasonable Mal pistol facsimilie.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

TDBROWN

Saturday, May 9, 2009 2:09 PM

In the Firefly Visual Companion, Vol 1, pp 78-79, there is a nice little article about the p[istol and how it was made. There are photos of the actual gun it is wrapped around (a snub-nose revolver), and a photo of the semi-assembled gun. If you're dreaming of making your own working model, this might be the place to start; a template, if you would.

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

AG05

Saturday, May 9, 2009 2:44 PM

Yes, but a gussied-up revolver is just that: a revolver. A functional magazine fed semi auto is a whole different kettle of beasts. Or something.

Personally, I'd love to get a LeMat replica with an accessory rail on the barrel and a nickle-plated shotgun barrel underneath. Like Jayne's.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:53 AM

Okay revival time. I've managed to find a Sidkit one, unassembled, for $250. How much did these things run before? I could cancel the order I have for the preassembled Wilco one which would give me $63 towards it. Supposedly QMx is making a Metal one but production hasn't even begun. I'm kinda afraid to miss this opportunity.

KWICKO

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:20 AM

BSCM: The differences in the Mal's pistol could be easily explained by the idea of him loving his service sidearm and being very comfortable using it, but having picked up a newer (later-model) version in better condition somewhere in his travels. It would be everything he loved and trusted in his old sidearm, but would be in better shape. And prettier.

Just a thought.

Also, if it's a semi-auto of any kind (as the magazine would suggest), it would need to eject the shells, unless it fires shell-less rounds (think of a kind of a shell which uses some kind of rocket-type solid propellent out the back as the whole cartridge leaves the weapon.

The magazine type shown with the weapon is a stacked magazine, which means the cartridge HAS TO go somewhere once fired, or the next one in the stack can't load into the breech. If you've ever fired a semi-auto, the expended cartridges are expelled rather quickly, and you won't always see them.

Just a few things to help move stuff along for y'all...

Hey, maybe if we're allowed to manufacture weapons that stay in our own state without all the ATF hassles (and good luck to anyone who wants to try!), someone here in Texas could figure out how to make a WORKING version of Mal's gun. 'Course, y'all outside of Texas would be SOL...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:31 AM

Quote:

Finally, grip angle: I'm not entirely sure which bits of this gun are supposed to reciprocate during cycling, but wouldn't want the webbing of my hand in the way when they did. That old west revolver grip angle just seems too shallow for safe operation. Not to mention that this gun would be all kinds of muzzle-heavy.

I'm sorry if this post reeked of gun-nerd. But I'd love to be able to take a real-life Browncoat pistol to the range one day. Right now the closest thing out there is the Ruger Charger, which I'd love to get my hands on to try and create a reasonable Mal pistol facsimilie.

As another gun-nerd, I loved that post, because I had many of the same thoughts and reservations - especially that super-shallow grip angle shown on one of the models (all look too shallow to be readily accurate or comfortable, forcing too much wrist angle for the shooter). It looks at the very least like it would be damned uncomfortable to shoot.

As for reciprocating mass, if it were designed somewhat along the lines of a Kalashnikov, the moving parts would remain within the enclosed parts of the gun. But that brings another problem, as there's no obvious gas tube for using discharged gases to cycle the weapon's action.

I think at some point, we just kind of have to look at it and say, "It's a movie and a TV show - it doesn't HAVE to work or make sense."

But I'd still love to have a working model to take to the range...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:34 AM

Quote:

Personally, I'd love to get a LeMat replica with an accessory rail on the barrel and a nickle-plated shotgun barrel underneath. Like Jayne's.

Your wish is my command...

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/C000093.htm

$63.00

Schweet.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

AG05

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 5:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Personally, I'd love to get a LeMat replica with an accessory rail on the barrel and a nickle-plated shotgun barrel underneath. Like Jayne's.

Your wish is my command...

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/C000093.htm

$63.00

Schweet.

Mike

Shit. I said "replica" when I meant "reproduction." Cheapest repro Le Mat I've seen is in the $900 range. Too rich for my blood.

Re: your earlier post: It COULD be possible that the cycling parts are completely enclosed within the gun. Thats the way a Ruger 10/22, or the Charger I mentioned, operate. And they are recoil-operated. Granted, they're .22's but the idea is sound. That also solves the problem of slide bite with the revolver grip angle. Nice thinking!

Of course, the firing pin thing is still an issue.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

KWICKO

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:55 PM

Quote:
Of course, the firing pin thing is still an issue.

Probably so. Although the firing pin on my AK clones is in the neighborhood of 3-3.5" long, and they don't seem to suffer too much. Heck, an AK is so damned rugged you can run over it with a tank and it'll still fire - and I've seen video of some Russians doing exactly that!

I wish they'd have given a bit more thought to the "HOW" of Mal's gun, but it seems pretty clear they wanted something that would evoke Civil War-era weaponry while still having a bit of a "techie" kind of edge to it, so we got something that looks flash, but isn't really workable. 'Course, most viewers don't notice that...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

AG05

Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:30 AM

Still, it was damned irresponsible of them to create a wholly new projectile firearm in a verse populated by literally every firearms design since 1860, then not contract with a manufacturer to produce working examples of said firearm. The lack of foresight is staggering.

Back to the design: If the operating group (bolt, extractor/ejector, firing pin, etc.) are completely enclosed, the firing pin wouldn't need to be that all that long. However, there would be no way to use the exposed hammer. I think that we would have to choose between having an internal operating group, and an external hammer.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

YELLOWJACKET

Thursday, May 21, 2009 2:42 AM

Here are some very high resolution images of some guns from Firefly/Serenity. Enjoy.

http://wildzero.de/Firefly/guns/

AG05

Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:02 AM

Holy crap YJ thats awesome!!!

EDIT: Now, that 1911-based job at #51, THAT looks doable.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

PROTOTYPE7

Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:
Okay revival time. I've managed to find a Sidkit one, unassembled, for $250. How much did these things run before? I could cancel the order I have for the preassembled Wilco one which would give me $63 towards it. Supposedly QMx is making a Metal one but production hasn't even begun. I'm kinda afraid to miss this opportunity.

Beatlesfan... if you've indeed found a sidkit for that price and there is nothing wrong with it JUMP ON IT! Sidkit did pass away recently which was a huge hit to the community that love and respect him. He really was an excellent craftsman and a great guy! A few warnings I'll give you though. This sidkit is just that... a kit! If the previous owner didn't put it together you're going to have to. While it's not super hard it's not all that easy either. It also will come to you unfinished and made out of something called pot-metal. It's soft! Kinda like lead... you can scratch it, marr it... you gotta treat this thing with respect. It will be silver and you'll either have to paint it or pay for someone to plate it.
There's also the issue of instructions... since his site isn't up anymore you'll have to track those down. If you do get this pistol let me know and I'll find them for you. And trust me YOU WILL NEED THE INSTRUCTIONS!
If you decide to pass on this let me know please... I might be the next guy in line.

Also, a cool note about one of the models mentioned above... the Model 47. Easily the BEST fan replica out there. Our own captian Nathan Fillion is now the proud owner of one of the Model 47 pistols! I think that's pretty cool myself!

Also, a note on the Wilco... I have one... it's the most affordable of the bunch. The only other thing... IT IS MISSING THE SAFETY LEVER! They never show you that side of the gun. Not saying I have a problem with it. I bought one. It's in my collection as we speak. Sometimes I like to hold it while I watch the dvds. I am super geek!

BEATLESFAN

Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:33 PM

Hah, thanks for the advice. I didn't realize it was so fragile, but I'll definitely be careful with it. I actually thought of instructions and Google searched yesterday. Found someone who archived the instructions page off the original Sidkit site. Oddly enough, they archived the page for the gun itself, and if you click the "buy now" button you can actually pay for it...hope no one has actually tried it D:

BEATLESFAN

Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:06 PM

Update:

I just paid for it. With shipping it was just short of $280. Not bad considering I just made $65 on eBay, got paid $100 for a sound tech job that lasted 45 minutes, and will be getting another $65 when I send back the Wilco Mal pistol model I ordered that's taken almost a month to get here >:O

I'm kind of excited.

BEATLESFAN

Friday, May 22, 2009 10:51 PM

Also, he just listed one more:

http://www.ioffer.com/i/102244249?from_buyer=1

SLEVIN7

Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:50 PM

Hey does any one have the link to mal's gun the one that has a movebable (sorry I not the best speller) triger. I think it called model 47. I really want to see how much it cost and if I could buy it. Thanks

LEMMING

Sunday, May 24, 2009 8:34 PM

Pennausamike wrote:
"I think there was a non-functioning brass version made, but I can't say for sure."

I can. It does exist because I handled one yesterday :-)

It is not a type 47 (as far as I know) as it did not come with the case, holster and fake rounds, but in all other respects is damn near identical and as close to the actual "hero" prop from Firefly as possible. This is because it is hand made by the guy that is lucky enough to own the original "hero" prop. It is correctly weighted and balanced, has the removable magazine (With fake rounds within (not removable I think), a moving (but not "action") trigger and moving (but not "action") safety. It is a very serious piece of sh....iny goodness :-)

While I really like my QMX replica, this one is something else and with all due respect, makes the QMX one look and feel inferior in direct comparison. But the QMX one is official, much more affordable and certainly more readily available. It's probably the best of the Serenity pistol replicas (until they eventually do the metal "hero" replica that's been rumored for ages) and is very nice in itself.(This brass Firefly one is very rare and was not generally available as far as I know)

It's gorgeous.

We actually featured a very technical article about Mal's gun from a knowlegable fan back at the start of season 4 of The Signal.

Nick

The Signal ( www.serenityfirefly.com)

KEELHAULER

Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Slevin7:
Hey does any one have the link to mal's gun the one that has a movebable (sorry I not the best speller) triger. I think it called model 47. I really want to see how much it cost and if I could buy it. Thanks

The Model 47 is no longer being made, as far as I know. The last one that was sold between collectors went for over $1,000. I've heard rumors, though, of a Model 47a being produced. It will be cast in fewer pieces and therefore will cost less, maybe around $600-700. But who knows......

SLEVIN7

Monday, May 25, 2009 3:04 AM

dang I really want mal's gun but I want the trigger to be movebable like a real gun

KEELHAULER

Monday, May 25, 2009 3:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Slevin7:
dang I really want mal's gun but I want the trigger to be movebable like a real gun

If you want to assemble and paint the gun yourself, you could go with the Sidkit Mal pistol. It runs about $250. There are some for sale on iOffer right now. Just search for "Firefly gun" and it should show up.

SLEVIN7

Monday, May 25, 2009 4:01 AM

is it metal and as heavy as the all metal one that requires no assembly? But I also dont think i can paint it correctly or assemble it correctly

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:40 AM

I ordered the Sidkit one and am expecting it by the end of next week. The instructions that I have are VERY thorough with pictures and everything - I'll let you know how complicated it is - I'm not crafty at all, but I think I can do this one.

BEATLESFAN

Monday, June 8, 2009 11:41 PM

Update:

It arrived, and it's done! It actually came mostly put together, which was kind of nice. I had to take off the sight to pop out the orange stopper, and it was a real pain getting it back on. Had to put in the cartridge, the back pieces with the safety, and the "special buttons" as the directions called them. Also had to put the barrel and sliding sight in. MAN is it heavier than I thought it would be! Anyway, here she be!

ONE SIDE

OTHER SIDE

FRONT

BACK

BWAH

PENNAUSAMIKE

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:
Update:

It arrived, and it's done! It actually came mostly put together, which was kind of nice. SNIP
Had to put in the cartridge.....

AHHHHH!!!!!
The same non-gun-guy mis-naming of the ammunition holding "MAGAZINE" as Joss uses!

A "cartridge" is the individual brass-primer-powder-bullet combo that loads into the chamber to fire the bullet.

Some people call the magazine a "clip" which isn't exactly right either, but it is closer to correct and sort of accepted to mean the same as "box magazine".

Joss even corrupted Canadian non-gun-guy Nathan Fillion, who said in the blooper reel, "My cartridge fell out of my gun."

So there is the info for the day;
the device that holds the ammunition is the magazine, whether it's a box or a tube.

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 12:10 AM

I actually called it a cartridge because of the blooper :P "The cartridge fell out of my gun..."

Still, it's not fallin' out of this one. Hopefully. I used practically half a tube of super glue D:

RIPWASH

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:04 PM

I is officialy jealous.

No way I can come up with near enough that amount of cashie money anytime in the near future. Dangit.

Ah well . . . congrats on your purchase Beatlesfan! Shiny!

Does the kit come with recomendations of what paint to use? If not, does anyone know that information?

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

BEATLESFAN

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:09 PM

It said to use Bluing agent like Blue Wonder. I ordered the Blacking agent to try to give it the look from Firefly. When I got it, it was already partially weathered, and I liked the look so I decided to keep it like it is.

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:

Whoa! - watch where you're pointing that thing!

Man, that is cool - congrats, BeatlesFan! Canon or not, "hero" or not, official or not, that's one shiny sidearm. Thanks for the photos...not that I was in serious danger of running out of things to covet...

EDIT: 'Cause I just can't seem not to...

donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:59 AM

It's the series gun, which is my preference. It has that not-cartridge in it that's not in the movie one. That threw me off for a while when I hadn't seen the movie yet :P

GOODWOLF

Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Beatlesfan:
It said to use Bluing agent like Blue Wonder. I ordered the Blacking agent to try to give it the look from Firefly. When I got it, it was already partially weathered, and I liked the look so I decided to keep it like it is.

One of the things I had thought of doing, and haven't given up on entirely, is to get a sidkit, keep it silver and add white "ivory" grips perhaps with an inlaid Independents triangle design.

Call it the Officer's Model. :)

BEATLESFAN

Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:18 AM

Ooo I like the sound of that. I thought of doing something "different" to this one, but in the end I'm just way too much of a traditionalist. Maybe I should grow a big black mustache...

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:32 PM

If you look at the pictures of mine, I used semi-gloss black and VERY lightly applied gold Rub-N-Buff on the raised edges.

I am hesitant to use any blueing or blackening agent on my Sidkit because blueing is a controlled rusting process,
which I'm afraid will degrade the metal over the long haul.

Mike

MAGHAFFAR

Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:18 PM

On the subject of owning a Mal's gun, I thought, yeah, that would be cool,
but then I started looking at actual firing civil war replicas, and I ended up buying a Uberti
(the best manufacturer of them) 1858 Remington .44-cal.

Here's a good site for good quality working civil-war replicas at good prices:

http://www.fcsutler.com

This is where I bought my Uberti 1858 Remington -- the Millenium matte black finish.
Plus there's the conversion cylinder you can buy that lets you fire .45-cal Long-Colt "cowboy" ammunition.

FC Sutler also carries the gun used to make Jayne's gun -- a 9-shot LeMat (.44 cal)
with a shotgun barrel as well.

Another good site, especially for supplies without any hassles (as in percussion caps) is

http://www.dixiegunworks.com

There's nothing like taking the ol' browncoat & 1858 to the range
and watching people's reaction when you start shooting the black powder gun.
Most people have never seen one before in action. Plus it's a lot of fun.

Anyway, just my 2-cents if anyone wants to investigate further. Plus, anyone in the SoCal area
(Inland Empire / Chino specifically) who'd like to go shooting, drop me an email.

==================================================================
Jonathan M.A.Ghaffar - Your Firefly/Serenity MP3 Ringtone Smuggler!
Free MP3 uploader (PC) at: www.tonethis.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
MAGhaffar@wayoftheseekers.com
FF Stickers & "Scents of Serenity" Perfume Oils.
http://www.TombofJesus.com --> www.alislam.org

GRIPPER

Sunday, June 14, 2009 1:03 AM

Kind of a cool thread...I am another "gun&knife" guy;and I used to wonder WHAT Mal's sidearm actually was.When I first saw the show,I initially though tit was a dressed up LeMat(interesting Civil War Confederate piece-unique in having a cap&ball cylinder AND an approximately 20 gauge shotgun barrel.Then I saw the magazine in addition to a cylinder and was REALLY confused).
What I always liked about the show was the idea that 20th and 21st cenyury firearms would fit right in and be practical-it was kind of cool to see Badger's guys with M203's,MP38/40's;AK pattern rifles ...not to mention Zoe's levergun.
Ruger may still have the Blackhawk (single action revolver) available in .30 carbine-you think that could be the basis for a build?

PENNAUSAMIKE

Sunday, June 14, 2009 2:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gripper:
SNIP
Ruger may still have the Blackhawk (single action revolver) available in .30 carbine-you think that could be the basis for a build?

Buy the first Official Firefly Companion book.
There are some excellent photos of the Mal pistol including showing how a Taurus 85 revolver is mounted inside to facilitate blank-firing for filming.

GRIPPER

Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:35 PM

Taurus 85?Wow...man that's their verison of a J frame snubby in .38 special.
It WOULD be interesting to build a working rendition of his sidearm...ssort of "futuristic meets retro(post American Civil War) cool;with modern metallurgy and ammo technology.
Hey,you might recall that the fed Mal domed after he shot Kaylee was using some type of Astra 400 variant...how cool is that?Either a9x19 or 9mm Largo( sort of an early attempt at a rimless .38 Super,Spanish).
Still, I wonder if the "Mal's Sidearm " project COULD be doable....standard/major caliber cylinder ...AND some type of alternate magazine arrangement.
LeMat meets the Webley-Fosberry ( or the Mateba) anyone???

TOBYBIRCH007

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:16 AM

I'm working on a CAD model of Mal's pistol. This is what I have so far. It's completely done from screenshots and pics of peoples kits. I'm thinking about buying a kit to take measurements from, but I can't find any sidkits and don't like the movie one so much. Has anyone determined whether or not the wilco is cast from the actual tv prop?

Oh, and don't pay any attention to the hammer or trigger, they're just there to take up the space, those arent the permanent ones.

I plan on making it into either a cap gun or a starter pistol, depending on the complexity and legality. Anyway, can you guys point out any errors I've made?

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:59 PM

The Wilco is not an accurate replica of Mal's pistol.

This is the most accurate cast out there, the phillipes resin cast.

The metal sidkit molds were probably made by re-engineering the phillipes cast to allow for mold shrinkage and the production of a multi-part, working replica.
(Picture of a disassembled sidkit Mal pistol to be found near the top of the thread.)

Here are the two sidkit Mals I'm working on.

The two spare magazines are of my own design and construction, shown in this thread:
http://fireflyprops.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=183

There is also a thread on the RPF about people making their own Mal pistols from scratch:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=64655&highlight=mal+pistol

Your 3-D modeling is off to a good start;
have fun!

Mike

ANTIGRAVITY

Friday, August 28, 2009 1:27 AM

Hi Mike
You seem to be the resident expert on Mal's gun here, so I hope you (or anyone else who wants to chime in) won't mind helping a novice out. I am not usually into firearms, but I always loved Mal's gun. So I went ahead and bought a partially finished sidkit version (from Italy). Unfortunately I'm such a novice, I don't know how to finish putting together the few last bits that didn't come assembled. In fact, I don't even know what the names of the parts are! (feel free to clue me in on that as well).

Here is a pix of my gun.

-I think I read earlier that the sight at the end had to be removed in order to remove the red plug?

-Once the red plug is removed, does that round part indicated by the arrow on my photo fit into the end? Do you glue it into place?

-How to you attach the pieces shown above and below the gun, and the 2 little 'thumbscrew' bits, also with glue? What kind of glue do you use?

-I assume the two little black screws are used to fit the extended barrel on, did you also glue it for stability?
What kind of tool do you use to screw in those little black screws?

-What is the extra moving part that is the same as the one already in place (above right of the trigger). I'm guessing that part is for left/right handed preference, or are there supposed to be two of them on the gun?

-If I wanted to darken the metal a bit and make the 'wood' look more realistic, how do you recommend doing that, and where do I get the products? For instance, I don't know what a 'blacking agent' is.

Thanks
Marilynn

AuntiGravity

TOBYBIRCH007

Friday, August 28, 2009 3:17 PM

Mike,

Do you have or do you know anyone who has, a phillip cast mal pistol in any stage of completion that I could borrow to get accurate dimensions, shapes and features? I would be happy to give the loaner a reproduction of mine once finished. I would only need it for a few days in order to get dimensions and high res photos.

The taurus 85 that the gun is based on is very similar to a smith & wesson snub nose 38 special of mine and I took the cover plate off to get a look at the internal mechanics. I then spoke with a jeweler friend of mine that is fairly certain he can reproduce all the parts needed to make a single/double action working replica. I've also got an idea in design phase to make the magazine functional. The parts of the magazine that are hidden by the gun's frame will not be screen accurate, but will be screen accurate with the magazine in the gun.

Since we don't know for sure what the parts of the prop gun actually do, does anyone have a problem with using the parts, loosely referred to as the return springs, as a magazine release? Doing this would eliminate having a button that isn't screen accurate.

You can feel free to email me at:

DrewSmith007@gmail.com

if you have any questions or suggestions.

Drew

PENNAUSAMIKE

Friday, August 28, 2009 4:24 PM

I attached all the final pieces except the top four screws and applied the antique gold Rub & Buff.
Which I promptly wore off handling it.
Applied R&B a second time; looked like garbage.
Wore that off on purpose and, third times the charm.
I now need to seal the whole pistol in a clear coat.
I don't know how that's going to work, so I need to make a test piece to see how the R&B takes to the clear.

Not a particularly good photo, but the best at this time.

Marilynn, I have more detailed pics of how I built my Sidkit Mal at this sight.
http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=37241#37241
about half-way down the page.
I have a lot of info about how to assemble the Sidkit to be a little more durable, because the pewter/white-metal casting are pretty soft.
The Sidkit's original instructions have been archived here:
http://www.box.net/shared/rndkbiao52

It's a zip file you have to download, but it shows exactly how Sidero originally intended the Mal pistol to be built.
To your specific questions:
1: I don't think you need to remove the front sight, but at most you should only need to remove the front screw.

2: Yes, the "donut" gets glued into the muzzle end.

3: The thumbscrews are supposed to be glued into the dimples, but that method does not work well.
The slightest bump and they are breaking off.
In my builders thread, I show where I drilled and tapped the thumbscrews for 4-40 set screws.
And then also glued them.

4: The little screws thread into the underside of the barrel.
But you need to glue the barrel in the pocket first, ensuring it is straight, then the metric buttonhead screws can be put in.
You need a small metric "Allen wrench" (common name for a "hex key" or "internal hex wrench") to screw the buttonhead screws in.
I felt the barrel mount is one of several poor design features of the Sidkit and I supported mine with a bolt from behind.
I talk about that in my build thread, also.

5: The extra part is just that, extra.
I'm not sure why Sid included them.

6: I chose to paint my Sidkit.
"Bluing", Browning" and "Blackening" agents are all controlled corrosion processes.
Fine on high quality gun steel, but I'm concerned they will continue to eat away at the soft "pot-metal" that the Sidkits are made of.
For nearly all my dummy gun building, I use Dupli-Color DAP 1698 Black Primer followed by
Dupli-Color DA 1603 Semi-Gloss Black.
The grips I scratched with a 24 grit piece of abrasive cloth to make fake grain, coated in a black wash, streak-brushed red mahoganey stain and then clear coat.

Read all the posted info and Good Luck!

Mike

ANTIGRAVITY

Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:36 AM

Mike,
Thanks so much for sharing the detailed info on how you finished your Mal gun, and the links! - I'd heard the sidkit instructions had been archived, but I hadn't been able to find them before.

I hope I can get my gun to look half as shiny-good as yours does!

I'll post a pic of mine after I finish it, if I don't embarass myself.

Marilynn

AuntiGravity

PENNAUSAMIKE

Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:31 PM

To Auntigravity/Marilynn, I'm sure you'll do fine.
And remember, do your best and however your pistol comes out,
it'll be a reflection of your work and learning/growing experience.
There is a place to say, "I built this" rather than, "I bought this".
Also, hand skills only develop with practice for most people.
The more practice, the greater the skills.
Don't ever fail to be happy with each stage of development.
A concrete foundation isn't a "pretty" thing, but the whole house falls without it.
Your first efforts are the foundation for any later improvement you experience.

Quote:
Originally posted by tobybirch007:
Mike,
Do you have or do you know anyone who has,
a phillip cast mal pistol in any stage of completion that I could borrow to get accurate dimensions, shapes and features?
SNIP

SNIP
I then spoke with a jeweler friend of mine that is fairly certain he can reproduce all the parts needed to make a single/double action working replica. I've also got an idea in design phase to make the magazine functional.
SNIP

Drew

I wish you luck with your project,
but there are a few important skills you will need and problems to overcome.

The phillipes castings are pretty rare now.
I just sold one for $125 and it will be tough to find one that a person is willing to loan.

Second will be your personal, mechanical skill level and industry style connections.
There is a Mal pistol project going on now that involves a gentleman with CAD, foundry and machining connections
who will be doing much if not all of the final finishing and assembly work himself.
A final price of $700 is the current figure, amortized across a 25 to 30 piece run.
Building a high-end Mal pistol is too major a project to give to a few people as a "casual time" fill-in job.

I'm not trying to discourage you.
If you haven't done a metal-working project of this scale before,
I'm just suggesting that you educate yourself as to the processes and steps involved so that your goals and expectations are realistic and attainable.
If you look at the projects on this RPF thread,
you can see skill levels all over the scale; from tin-knocker-novice to CAD generated plastic pieces.
Lotsa dimensions, too.
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=64655&highlight=mal+pistol

Your CAD images are nice, but it is a long and expensive road from the computer image to the final product.
Last time I worked in a CNC shop, (over a decade ago, JEEZ! coming up on TWO decades ago

)
CNC mill time was $95 per hour.
If your background and current job status place you in the job-shop manufacturing community in your area,
and you have a few thousand dollars to invest in your project,
your goal of building a metal Mal with functioning features is realistic.
If not, you probably need to gear your work toward home workshop type tools and materials.

As a final note on the magazine, the studio original was held in with magnets.
Like many aspects of building a real-world Mal from such a fanciful design,
a complete re-engineering of the magazine holding system would be necessary.
That would be a mini-engineering project in its own right.
For what it's worth, I'd mimic the WWII German G-43 magazine catch system.
It is a style that would fit between the back of the mag and the front of the triggerguard.

Good Luck,
Mike

TOBYBIRCH007

Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:58 PM

Thanks for your words of advice. I have a degree in mechanical engineering technology, and took the manufacturing route. I've built several different devices that are similar on scale and complexity and don't believe this will be a problem.

I'm currently trying to find the right small milling machine and lathe to convert to cnc for my home shop use, and also have a small home foundry set up. I only mentioned using a jeweler to make the internal parts because they would be difficult to make due to their small features.

I wasn't planning on using the foundry for my project because it wasn't going to be worth the time to make patterns for 2 or 3 guns, I planned on machining everything. Is there a market for screen accurate metal guns?

JAYNESMANE

Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:07 PM

Link to the gun? I'd like to buy one.

---
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TOBYBIRCH007

Tuesday, September 1, 2009 10:10 PM

The only guns that are currently being sold (that I know of) can be found:

http://www.austinbrowncoats.com/whedonwares/index.php?main_page=produc
t_info&cPath=26_27&products_id=95

(TV show version, not accurate)

and

http://store.quantummechanix.com/Official-Malcolm-Reynolds-Stunt-Pisto
l-Replica_p_22.html

(movie version, currently out of stock)

I can't find any info on the above mentioned metal version for $700ish.

There's usuall something on ebay, but I'm not sure what exactly those are.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, September 1, 2009 11:05 PM

Found a really cheap price on a Black Powder revolver that looks much like Mal's Gun...

It SHOOTS ! And it is under $200 !

Anyone interested . send me a PM , I'll hook you up with the particulars...

TOBYBIRCH007

Tuesday, September 1, 2009 11:13 PM

My dad has a version of that is all steel except the trigger guard and and backstrap are brass. It shoots .44cal balls with black powder and percussion caps. It's really awesome to see, smoke goes everywhere.

I'm pretty sure that's the gun they modeled the Mal pistol to look like, due to its heavy use in the U.S. civil war, but don't quote me on that.

The blackpowder it uses is less powerful than the modern smokeless powder, and if you use smokeless in it (with the same amount of powder, I reckon) it will not be pretty. Plus, the smoke and smell of the black powder is what makes it fun!