Why I believe Tomorrow Never Dies is the best Bond flick of all time:
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, January 29, 2009 22:26
VIEWED: 3093
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Quote:My take on the books is that Bond was essentially manic/depressive , and buried it by saying effue to danger, while distracting himself with booze & broads.
Originally posted by Bytemite:
My impression of Bond from the books is that he's more intimidation, "I'll do what I'm told, but I'll do it MY way," or in the case of women, pure magnetism.
The shrink Chrisisall
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Chrisisall Wrote:
Quote:Agreed. But not being a Bond fan I prefered Timothy Dalton (I side with Andrew on that one
1) Brosnan, a great Bond.
)Quote:Agreed
2) No silly Batman-esque trap where he's left to die & no one sticks around to make sure.
Quote:Disagree. On Her Majesty's Secret Service had the best score for me, Or Man with the Golden Gun.. Barry gave the Bond them a distinctive "Rag' type slant. Worked a treat.
3) Great music, some of the best.
Quote:Agreed
4) Strongest female lead since Pussy Galore, and a better fighter!
Quote:Hmm. S'ok.... I prefered it when Connery unzipped his frog suit to reveal a Tux underneath - but I get your point.
5) Bond sitting there with vodka & a gun ready for the worst- CLASSIC!
Quote:Isn't that contrary to Bonds character though?
6) Sincere regret, the most you'll ever see out of Bond, at the killing of Paris in his room.
Quote:Agreed.
7) Supervillain with realistic means to an insane end.
Quote:Agreed!
8) No invisible car, phony rear screens, or shoot out in a space station.
Quote:Agreed. Plus the whole Helicopter, two on a Bike getaway stunt!!!
9) Excellent final confrontation & fight scene!
Quote:Agreed. Unfortunately the two Craig ones have gone and done exactly that. Oh well.
10) No throw-away female characters (always bugged me, like Kissy Suzuki- make love to her, see her killed, move on to the next warm body without pause...)
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Quote:My favourite Barry stuff was on Goldfinger, Diamonds are forever & Man With The Golden Gun. However, since Barry was not an option on TND for whatever reason, Arnold did an amazing job including Barry's riffs into the score, I thought.
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:Quote:Disagree. On Her Majesty's Secret Service had the best score for me, Or Man with the Golden Gun.. Barry gave the Bond them a distinctive "Rag' type slant. Worked a treat.
3) Great music, some of the best.
The thematic Chrisisall
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Quote:Ordinarily yes, but she was dead, because of him, and the perp was dead (no vengeance to focus on), and after his wife, steeling himself (sorry, couldn't resist) to another loss this close has become harder.
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:Quote:Isn't that contrary to Bonds character though?
6) Sincere regret, the most you'll ever see out of Bond, at the killing of Paris in his room.
The IMO Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:My favourite Barry stuff was on Goldfinger, Diamonds are forever & Man With The Golden Gun. However, since Barry was not an option on TND for whatever reason, Arnold did an amazing job including Barry's riffs into the score, I thought.
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:Quote:Disagree. On Her Majesty's Secret Service had the best score for me, Or Man with the Golden Gun.. Barry gave the Bond them a distinctive "Rag' type slant. Worked a treat.
3) Great music, some of the best.
The thematic Chrisisall
Not a fan of David Arnold at all. I won't deny his talent but his scores tend to sound like tagged on fanfare. Reference INDEPENDENCE DAY. Now of course it may be a directors request so must not judge him too harshly. However I find he lacks the finesse of say : Marco Beltrami iRobot or the dark clarity of Danny Elfman Batman or the ingenuity of Mark Motherbaugh Life Aquatic.
Still that said - I wish I had just a pinky's worth of his ability when it comes to scoring.
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Quote:I was luke warm over his stuff (Stargate, ID4) until Tomorrow Never Dies- I loved his Barry inclusion...much like Brian Tyler's soundtracks for Rambo & AVP Requiem, so cool to hear the themes, even if the original composers aren't available/alive to do them.
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Not a fan of David Arnold at all.
The difference to me is, Barry, Goldsmith, & Silvestri write stuff you can listen to independent of the movie, not so with Arnold & Tyler, who are movie specific...'fanfare'-like as you might say.
The noted Chrisisall
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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
until Tomorrow Never Dies- I loved his Barry inclusion...much like Brian Tyler's soundtracks for Rambo & AVP Requiem, so cool to hear the themes, even if the original composers aren't available/alive to do them.
Yeah they do this alot these days. I'm not sure how I feel about it actually. At the end of Casino Royale it was fine, because you felt that maybe Bond had 'reached' the point of the 007 we knew from before, and therefore he now has become that 'familiar' identity. However the very lack of continuity with this into Quantum of Solace confussed me.
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I don't know if I can go as far as saying it's the best Bond ever but it's certainly Brosnan's best for all the points Chris mentioned in the first post, and the best one since Connery left the role.
Michelle Yeoh kicks ass and it was refreshing to see a baddie with an achievable goal, something that could actually happen (some may say it has).
Aside from the plane dive in Goldeneye I have an even bigger problem with this movie that kinda spoilt it for me at the flicks. Maybe some of you had the same thing but over here in the UK when the film was released Sean Bean was already a pretty well known actor. He was always mentioned with the press that followed the movie and then he was listed third or fourth on the opening credits.
Having him as a fellow agent was great but as soon as he died I knew immediately that he was the one behind it all and had turned rogue.
Now I'm no expert but I would have preferred it if they'd introduced the character in one movie, have him and Bond work together a bit, Bond saves his life like usual (or maybe the other way round for a change) and then in the following movie have him 'die' and be revealed as the big bad. Maybe with links to the previous movie showing what his character had really been up to.
Surely that would have had more impact?
That's my opinion. Goldeneye is still a great movie though and it's certainly nowhere near as bad as Die Another Day. And the invisible car ain't the worst bit, I'll save that for Madonna (shudders at the thought of her).
"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."
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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
The difference to me is, Barry, Goldsmith, & Silvestri write stuff you can listen to independent of the movie, not so with Arnold & Tyler, who are movie specific...'fanfare'-like as you might say.
..Yes. You know in fairness composers these days do work under some crazy deadlines. So I may be being way to harsh on him. I know that Marco Beltrami had only 17 days to score iRobot. That's incredible. 17 days, to be inspired! Find a motif! Work out subsequent themes, apply them to relevant scenes/actions, decide on instrument arrangement, orchestrate it, and record/sync it to sound effects!!! I'd be all manner of hysterical with those deadlines!! Crazy!
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Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
Having him as a fellow agent was great but as soon as he died I knew immediately that he was the one behind it all and had turned rogue.
I'd never heard of him before Goldeneye, and I sussed that out. But Bond movies aren't really known for revelatory plot twists (not to me, anyway), so it didn't bother me. The point was Bond didn't know, and that worked well enough.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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