Wifely Duties
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Saturday, January 9, 2010 04:47
VIEWED: 62964
PAGE 14 of 19
Quote:No, of course poverty has a role in the death rate. People are not bacteria, per se, and we're very good at creating unequal distribution of resources (unlike bacteria). My point was that while poverty is intentional and created by the theft of resources by the rich from the poor (and from women to men) death is not.
So my question was if you think poverty has an effect on the death rate, because from what I'm understanding you're saying that poverty versus no poverty has no effect on the end result (dying of starvation).
ETA: In fact, now that I think about it... if the poor want to take control they have to take responsibility too. Say F*ck the rich! I'm gonna make sure there's enough for me and my kids, enough to at least grow good food and get clean water. Manage my lands and my family. Then get some of that education and technology for myself.
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TPTB are ALREADY numerically vanishingly small. Approximately 500 people own roughly half of the world. How small is THAT?? Do you think it REALLY makes a difference to that 500 whether the population is 5 billion, or 10 billion? Do you think they're thinking "Oh no! My numerical advantage just went down from 0.00002% by a factor of two!"???
Actually, compared to the size of their security forces or government armies...? I think they do care.
I note that recruitment is primarily from among the poor. The poor are easily exploted, and also this might be another way to split any possible opposition. it's similar to the Jacobites in Scotland. Britian recruited a lot of Scottish as they went so the Jacobites would be forced to fight other Scottish.
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I have logic, and my interpretation of the facts you have provided, which as I said before the interpretation is the only thing we disagree on. We agree on the facts.
You have provided evidence that nations that are poor have a high birthrate and high population growth, but you didn't acknowledge when I pointed out they also have a high death-rate, and I really don't see how this disproves my assertion that the death-rate is intentionally created by outside forces.
You don't have to have a stagnant population to see when there have been limitations placed on population growth. Yes, they have a very high growth rate. I still think their growth rate would be even higher after elevation from poverty, because I don't think we have any guarantees that they would undergo a demographic transition. Maybe population would only increase up until Sig's proposed scenario where they run out of resources, but we don't really know when that would happen, or whether improvements could be made to agriculture that could improve our unsustainable consumption rate.
Bacteria don't have advancements in agriculture.
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Byte, with advanced weaponry including nuclear weapons, it doesn't matter HOW numerically small you are.
Let's frame this differently: The higher death rate among women in poor countries is due to a consipracy among men to keep the number of women down.
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Quote:
ETA: In fact, now that I think about it... if the poor want to take control they have to take responsibility too. Say F*ck the rich! I'm gonna make sure there's enough for me and my kids, enough to at least grow good food and get clean water. Manage my lands and my family. Then get some of that education and technology for myself.
To a degree. Some might be able to manage doing so. Others may need to band together with their community to get the seeds, irrigation technology, and other resources they need. It can be difficult to stand alone.
Screw the rich though, very yes. :)
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Let's frame this differently: The higher death rate among women in poor countries is due to a consipracy among men to keep the number of women down.
You mean like China? Where they kill female infants because of a cultural belief that males are more desireable?
Kinda yes.
But actually, I'm not saying the size difference matters to US, I'm saying it matters to the powers that be.
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Byte, I gotta get back to work. Later.
So, for my break:
BYTE: You contradicted yourself. You said that TPTB are afraid of "us" in relation to their security forces, then said that they recruit security primarily from the poor. So, why don't they just recruit more security from the ever-increasing and ever-more desperate poor??
Also, I cited women as an example how death occurs as an outcome of prejudice, but not as a goal of changing the sex ratio. Just bc something occurs as an outcome doesn't mean it was the desired effect.
Finally, you said that "our" numbers matter to THEM but not to US. I think exactly opposite. OUr number matter to US, not THEM. The people who are going to suffer most from lack of water, heat waves, lack of land and lack of food is NOT them, it's US. Them???? They don't give a cr*p.
You really have this idea that "they" are afraid of "the masses". That's like a cattle rancher with an excess of cattle being afraid of the herd.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You really have this idea that "they" are afraid of "the masses". That's like a cattle rancher with an excess of cattle being afraid of the herd.
They Poll Herefords, Don't They?
http://www.jpfo.org/smith/smith-herefords.htm
"Listen to them closely and you'll hear that we might as well be different species. They are an elite -- near demigods who are above everything, including the law. We are less than nothing, of no concern to them except for the tasks we perform and the wealth we create for them to steal. If some of us can play the violin, create beautiful paintings or sculptures, or bring audiences to tears with our singing or acting, those are just "stupid pet tricks" without real value or significance."
That pointed out, I do concur that outbreeding them isn't a viable strategy, since the greater part of the problem is still that people LISTEN TO THEM, and obey their orders even when it's directly contradictory to their own interests.
S'why I chose to dump sand in the exact gears of their machine that I do - however this whole conversation and the notions it's addressing is something I am watching with interest cause there's ideas here which could maybe be useful as well.
-F
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You contradicted yourself. You said that TPTB are afraid of "us" in relation to their security forces, then said that they recruit security primarily from the poor.
Not really a contradiction, it's another measure of control. It's splitting the loyalty of the target population. If the poor ever did rise up, they'd have to be fighting other poor people, and possibly members of their own family. Military training (brainwashing) takes away any hesitation they would have over putting us down if told we are a threat, but it's likely we would hesitate attacking them. Or so the strategy is.
Like I said, the Jacobites are an excellent example of TPTB pitting a much scorned "genetically inferior" population against themselves, and by doing so limiting the expenditure of their "own" forces (supposedly "genetically superior" population). To get the men to fight, all The Butcher had to tell his men was to claim that the Jacobites had ordered that they would give no quarter to the redcoats, present them the (falsified) captured orders as proof. Where a regiment of Scottish redcoats might have been uneasy about killing their kinsmen before, suddenly not only were they killing them, but also denying them medical aid, raping the civilians in the area, burning them alive after chasing them into barns, and etc.
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The people who are going to suffer most from lack of water, heat waves, lack of land and lack of food is NOT them, it's US.
I don't deny this. But TPTB have a unique problem; too few laborers, and they limit profits and what they can steal from us. Obviously, they don't want all the laborers to die, though they aren't particularly crestfallen if a few (or several billion) do die. But they also have concerns about the labour pool. What if the labour pool gets too big? Uh oh. Even if there isn't an overthrow (which I do think they're concerned about, unless they're completely ignorant of history and the dialectic), too big of a labor pool cuts in on their resources. They have to supply and distribute certain necessities and resources to make their workers work, in America this is done indirectly through money. In feudalism, it was allowing the peasants to retain some of the crops they grow during the year for food. And in slavery, it was the master buying food for the slaves (or making other slaves work a separate plot for food to feed everyone, but this plot must be only a small portion of the land for the cash crop, or this would also cut into profits).
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"I really don't see how this disproves my assertion that the death-rate is intentionally created by outside forces."
With the intention of REDUCING POPULATION. That's the other part of your schema. If the intention is to REDUCE population, they are failing miserably, in that the populations they want to reduce are growing by leaps and bounds.
"You mean like China? Where they kill female infants because of a cultural belief that males are more desirable?"
Now, how come this has come up again ? After I went and hunted down references that in China anyway, infection with Hepatitis B accounts for over 95% of the 'missing females', but only for 10-15% of the 'missing females' in India. I mean, really, why the fuck do I bother with facts ? 
"... I don't think we have any guarantees that they would undergo a demographic transition."
I did find some interesting data on Kerala. Kerala has the lowest birth rate in all of India, where once it had the highest. It also has the highest standard of living and index of development in all of India despite a lack of natural resources.
This was accomplished through education and a low-key small-family PR campaign (we two, our two), along with aggressively socialistic redistribution of resources in the form of education and healthcare. While Kerala is extremely crowded and lacks literally any natural resources, it also has the highest standard of living in India, due in part to: 1) small families, where available resources are divided between fewer members 2) an emphasis on education where expatriates work outside of India and 3) a socialist government that aggressively redistributes wealth in the form of education and health care.
Apparently Kerala achieved its demographic transition both through direct social means AND through improving the standard of living through education and health care.
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Silence is consent.
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