Conservatives for Change

POSTED BY: PhoenixRose
UPDATED: Sunday, October 26, 2008 03:04
VIEWED: 2679
PAGE 1 of 1

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:23 PM

http://conservativesforchange.com/

At least five of my friends have lifelong conservative/republican relatives who are voting for Obama. My own relatives in the heart of Kansas, lifetime members of the NRA, teachers and policemen, are voting for Obama. Working at 7-11 right now, selling politically-charged coffee cups, I've gotten into several discussions with people who come in. Some say they can't believe the Obama cup tally is so high. Some say they've been for Obama from the start. Some defend Sarah Palin before I even say anything. And some say they haven't voted Democrat since Kennedy, or ever, and they're buying Obama cups in reflection of their ballot. So I do believe this is something happening across the board. And ya know, I think it's pretty cool.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:29 PM

PR - check this out

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-hirshberg/republicans-voting-for-ob
_b_136997.html

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:33 PM

Yep, that's where I initially read about it. Some very interesting articles around there in general. I particularly like the series of 'Body Politic' write-ups on body language in the campaign.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

PIRATENEWS

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:36 PM

If Republicans want to keep their govt jobs, they're required to vote for illegal alien Hussein Obama.

That's how Gangsta Govt works.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:37 PM

Pirate

take your meds dude.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:40 PM

well, i think there will be ice hockey in hell before Kansas ever goes from red to blue - but the country does seem to be trending towards Barack and away from the negative campaign of McCain/Palin - November 4th should be an interesting evening of television - (the race to call the winner is a hoot)

btw: my birthday is in November - an Obama presidency is my only wish... (now blow out the candles....ack)

edit: and check out these rosy numbers:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
well, i think there will be ice hockey in hell before Kansas ever goes from red to blue

I think you're likely right about that, I was just pointing at my own example in my own life. Four votes in Kansas is not going to turn the whole state, but it amazed me that any of my relatives there would vote for Obama at all.
What I do think is that I may just see my own state turn blue for the first time in memory, and that's pretty exciting.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:43 PM

Now, quick question...

If it were OBAMA vs. RON PAUL...

who would YOU vote for?

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:52 PM

Obama

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, October 24, 2008 7:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Now, quick question...

If it were OBAMA vs. RON PAUL...

who would YOU vote for?

As far as I could tell, I agree with Ron Paul on maybe - maybe - 5% of issues. Obama is in the 75-80% range. So yeah.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I was just pointing at my own example in my own life. Four votes in Kansas is not going to turn the whole state, but it amazed me that any of my relatives there would vote for Obama at all.

I didn't mean to disparage your relatives - it's great that they would vote for Obama, it's just that i live in a red state too, and i know how hard it is for people to change. We have made some inroads into the republican machine here, but here's the thing - we had W for our governor before he landed in the White House - and, believe it or not, he still has plenty of support here -

Some folks go through life with blinders on and will never change.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:34 PM

I live in freaking Alabama. In Baldwin County, I don't think one could be in a "redder" place....and yet, I see them cropping up - them Obama/Biden signs. There is even a HUGE 6 ft x 8 ft sign that someone made right on Hwy 59. I know a lot of McCain supporters here that started questioning his platform as soon as he picked Palin. I told them at the time that I thought it was his way of having a reason why he didn't win (if he doesn't). (knocking on wood no jinxsy!)

Anyway. I am voting for Hope. Cause we need it, no matter what color state you are in.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

WULFENSTAR

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:39 PM

"Anyway. I am voting for Hope."

Oh, good Lord.....

No wonder people are calling him the Libs "messiah"....

*sigh

HERO

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
At least five of my friends have lifelong conservative/republican relatives who are voting for Obama....

If only a conservative writer would come along to make a counter argument:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008
102302867_pf.html

H

AURAPTOR

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:47 PM

No conservatives are ever going to vote for a Socialist. If so, they're not conservatives. Might be Republicans, as there are plenty of Liberl Republicans, but they aren't conservatives.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:50 PM

"No wonder people are calling him the Libs "messiah"...."

Then 'people' are wrong.

It's blanket assumptions like these (which you make quite frequently, and ALWAYS to the detriment of liberals and / or Obama) that show what you really think, Wulf.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, October 24, 2008 8:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Anyway. I am voting for Hope."

Oh, good Lord.....

No wonder people are calling him the Libs "messiah"....

*sigh

and who, precisely, is calling him "Messiah". Would that be the hate mongering Fox News people?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

STORYMARK

Friday, October 24, 2008 9:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Anyway. I am voting for Hope."

Oh, good Lord.....

No wonder people are calling him the Libs "messiah"....

*sigh

and who, precisely, is calling him "Messiah". Would that be the hate mongering Fox News people?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

I've yet to hear anyone but a rageing republican say that about Obama.

And they love saying it, over and over. But that's how they do things - repeat the line untill enough people think it's true.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Friday, October 24, 2008 9:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No conservatives are ever going to vote for a Socialist. If so, they're not conservatives. Might be Republicans, as there are plenty of Liberl Republicans, but they aren't conservatives.

Given how many of you "conservatives" voted for Mr. Spend and Spend, expand government, infringe of civic rights Bush....

I'd say there aren't many true conservatives left. None on this board, far as I can tell.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

RUE

Friday, October 24, 2008 9:20 PM

"and who, precisely, is calling him "Messiah". Would that be the hate mongering Fox News people?"

It reminds me of all the repubican complaints about EVERYone 'attacking' Palin - when in fact there were no 'attacks' at all. And of course the 'liberal' media never seems to do any fact-checking, just parrots every little repubican claim. Take for example this little headline (yes, headline) from yesterday: McCain: Obama Will ‘Say Anything to Get Elected’.

Well, that's one way to manufacture news, as long as the media is in your pocket.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

KHYRON

Friday, October 24, 2008 9:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No conservatives are ever going to vote for a Socialist. If so, they're not conservatives. Might be Republicans, as there are plenty of Liberl Republicans, but they aren't conservatives.

Isn't it John McCain's party that just nationalized the banking system? *That's* something only socialists would do. And calling Obama a socialist just shows that you have no fracking clue what socialism is.

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I'd say there aren't many true conservatives left. None on this board, far as I can tell.

Yep.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Obama vs Ron Paul

Are you kidding!? 538-0.

------------------------------

McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, October 25, 2008 12:03 AM

Again, I have valid concerns about properly limiting his authority - I think we've all had enough of a "unitary executive" don't ya think ?

And to push the edge when given power, that's just a natural instinct for us humans, when you think about it.

So please, please, for the love of mercy, don't let the fact that you like the guy, or his policies, blind you to the pressing need to show him where the limits are, that was a disaster with Shrub, and it'd be a disaster with Obama, should you let it happen.

No matter how much you want a certain agenda or policy carried out, those rules are there for damned good reasons, need I point out the past eight years again as an example of why ?

DO NOT let go of the leash folks, not even for a minute, or mark my words, the beast of politics will bite you squarely on the ass shortly thereafter.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KWICKO

Saturday, October 25, 2008 1:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
If Republicans want to keep their govt jobs, they're required to vote for illegal alien Hussein Obama.

That's how Gangsta Govt works.

So then it's safe to assume that Hero and Finn will be voting Obama, eh?

M

KWICKO

Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No conservatives are ever going to vote for a Socialist. If so, they're not conservatives. Might be Republicans, as there are plenty of Liberl Republicans, but they aren't conservatives.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

You did. Twice. Bush came to office a "social conservative" and he's leaving office as a "conservative socialist". Say what you will, but you know goddam well that if Clinton had nationalized the banks in the wake of their collapse, you'd be SCREAMING "Socialism! Socialism!" at the top of your lungs. So face it - you voted Socialist. Twice.

Deal w/it.

Mike

ANTHONYT

Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:26 AM

Hello,

I found the "No Conservative would Vote Socialist" line humorous.

The fact is, neither of the big parties, Republican or Democrat, has a viable conservative candidate running for President at this time. Ron Paul was it, and he barely made a scratch.

If you vote for Mccain, you will be endorsing non-conservative policies. The Republicans have fallen so far from 'Conservative' ideals that they are no longer deserving of the moniker. We have twisted and misappropriated the label 'Conservative' in order to equate it with the label 'Republican', but the two now have very little in common. Even the word 'Republican' itself bears little resemblance to the 'Republican' of old.

Big Government, Big Wars, and Big Spending and Freedom Meddling are not 'Conservative' ideals. But those are the fruits of the Republican party's last several years of dominance.

It is no longer a choice between 'Conservative' or 'Liberal' or 'Democrat' or 'Republican' or 'Socialist' or 'Capitalist.'

It is a much simpler and scarier choice.

Who will rape the fewest number of inputs while using the highest quantity of vaseline?

This is what the current regime has brought us to. It's brought us to the point where some Republicans feel compelled to vote Democrat, merely to mitigate the catastrophic influx of water into this sinking ship.

Just like a pacifist can be moved to kill under the right circumstances, a conservative can be moved to support a socialist under the right circumstances. All it takes is a ludicrously comical set of horribly unlikely variables. I call those variables "2001-2008."

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

AURAPTOR

Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No conservatives are ever going to vote for a Socialist. If so, they're not conservatives. Might be Republicans, as there are plenty of Liberl Republicans, but they aren't conservatives.

Given how many of you "conservatives" voted for Mr. Spend and Spend, expand government, infringe of civic rights Bush....

I'd say there aren't many true conservatives left. None on this board, far as I can tell.

McCain was for the tax cuts, but NOT for the spending. Voting for Bush was the lesser of 2 evils. The fact that I vote for Harry Browne in 2000 , and not Bush is my saving grace, I suppose.

And when you speak of infringe on civic rights , you're including previous Democrtatic Administrations, correct ? The Echelon program was operating under Clinton, long before Bush ever thought of running.

"...Everything from--from data transfers to cell phones to portable phones to baby monitors to ATMs... "

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You did. Twice. Bush came to office a "social conservative" and he's leaving office as a "conservative socialist". Say what you will, but you know goddam well that if Clinton had nationalized the banks in the wake of their collapse, you'd be SCREAMING "Socialism! Socialism!" at the top of your lungs. So face it - you voted Socialist. Twice.

Deal w/it.

Mike

Not once, to be factual, did I vote for a conservative socialist. W never campaigned as being a socialist, while Gore and Kerry, if they didn't call themselves that, were far closer to the mark. Obama's wanting to " spread the wealth around " comes right out of Karl Marx's Manifesto - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Thanks, but no thanks.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

KWICKO

Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:48 AM

Quote:

Not once, to be factual, did I vote for a conservative socialist. W never campaigned as being a socialist, while Gore and Kerry, if they didn't call themselves that, were far closer to the mark.

Of the three, WHICH ONE moved to nationalize the banks? Sounds like a socialist to me, or "far closer to the mark" than you'd have us believe. And you've done nothing but support him - and McCain, who also voted for the bailout - so you do indeed support socialists.

And for the record, Gore, Kerry, and Obama have never campaigned as "socialists", nor have they ever run as candidates of the Socialist Party, so by your own words and logic, supporting them isn't supporting socialism.

Mike

AURAPTOR

Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Not once, to be factual, did I vote for a conservative socialist. W never campaigned as being a socialist, while Gore and Kerry, if they didn't call themselves that, were far closer to the mark.

Of the three, WHICH ONE moved to nationalize the banks? Sounds like a socialist to me, or "far closer to the mark" than you'd have us believe. And you've done nothing but support him - and McCain, who also voted for the bailout - so you do indeed support socialists.

And for the record, Gore, Kerry, and Obama have never campaigned as "socialists", nor have they ever run as candidates of the Socialist Party, so by your own words and logic, supporting them isn't supporting socialism.

Mike

Of the three ? Hell, only ONE was President, and only in the last few months of office, when an crisis erupted, did this happen. Voting for those who agreed on the one time bail out does not equate to " supporting socialist ". Gore , Kerry and Obama have most certainly run on policies which cater more toward Socialist, from carbon credits to 'spreading the wealth around', raising windfall taxes NOT because it would increase revenue to the Gov't, but because it would be " more fair " . THAT'S socialism, my friend.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

KWICKO

Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Not once, to be factual, did I vote for a conservative socialist. W never campaigned as being a socialist, while Gore and Kerry, if they didn't call themselves that, were far closer to the mark.

Of the three, WHICH ONE moved to nationalize the banks? Sounds like a socialist to me, or "far closer to the mark" than you'd have us believe. And you've done nothing but support him - and McCain, who also voted for the bailout - so you do indeed support socialists.

And for the record, Gore, Kerry, and Obama have never campaigned as "socialists", nor have they ever run as candidates of the Socialist Party, so by your own words and logic, supporting them isn't supporting socialism.

Mike

Of the three ? Hell, only ONE was President, and only in the last few months of office, when an crisis erupted, did this happen. Voting for those who agreed on the one time bail out does not equate to " supporting socialist ". Gore , Kerry and Obama have most certainly run on policies which cater more toward Socialist, from carbon credits to 'spreading the wealth around', raising windfall taxes NOT because it would increase revenue to the Gov't, but because it would be " more fair " . THAT'S socialism, my friend.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Nationalizing the banks -THAT is socialism, my friend. Your claim was that you never voted for any socialist, and that no REAL conservative ever would, and that Dubya never campaigned as a socialist. Stick to the facts - HAS OBAMA EVER CAMPAIGNED AS THE SOCIALIST PARTY CANDIDATE? Did Kerry? Gore? You claim that Bush didn't, and by implication try to indicate that the others DID.

You further claim that Obama runs a campaign that "caters more toward Socialist" - which in your eyes makes him a Socialist. But to say that one person's ideals lean more toward socialism than another's doesn't equate to that person being a full-blown socialist, does it, any more than if I were to say that since Bush tends to lean more toward fascism than Obama, Bush is a de facto Fascist. So which is it? Is Bush a fascist, or is yours a weak argument?

In plain and simple facts and deeds, Bush has done more to "socialize" the government than anyone in recent memory. You seem to be willing to excuse that, because it's late in his term and there's a crisis. That's not an excuse, it's just a handy reason, and there's ALWAYS a crisis when you want to radically reshape government.

And McCain supported it, even going so far as to "suspend" his campaign to rush to Washington to help set it up.

So if you're supporting McCain, Palin, and Bush, then you are indeed supporting socialism. You might argue that it's "necessary" socialism, or a "necessary evil", but it's socialism all the same, and your blanket statements that "No conservatives are ever going to vote for a Socialist. If so, they're not conservatives" are just bluster and hyperbole.

Also, you rail against those in America who "pay no taxes"; tell me, if you want them to pay taxes so you can cut taxes to the rich, aren't you just "spreading the wealth around", which is socialism by your very own definition of the word?

Or are you merely referring to Democrats as "socialist" because that's what your party hacks tell you to say?

Mike

KWICKO

Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:25 AM

Quote:

Just like a pacifist can be moved to kill under the right circumstances, a conservative can be moved to support a socialist under the right circumstances. All it takes is a ludicrously comical set of horribly unlikely variables. I call those variables "2001-2008."

Anthony, you nailed it.

ALL of our candidates have some socialistic tendencies, even good ol' Teddy Roosevelt. How else would you describe creating "National Parks" that take private land away from landowners and nationalize it for the greater good of the public? That, my friends, is socialism. Is it automatically evil, then?

Mike

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:23 AM

http://blog.localvoicesforobama.com/

I think the video by Jack Moore would be interesting for the gun owners on this forumn

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

KHYRON

Sunday, October 26, 2008 12:24 AM

Here's another one:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ken-adelman/why-a-staunch-conservativ_b_
137749.html

------------------------------

McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

KIRKULES

Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Nationalizing the banks -THAT is socialism, my friend.

I don't see the Government buying non-voting shares in banks to prop up our entire financial system as socialism. It's just the American people investing in their own future.

I also agree that Obama is not a Socialist. As Rue has recently pointed out, tax rates have been much higher in the past under Republicans and Democrats than they will be under an Obama administration. It's not a matter of socialism, it's the prospect of tax increases bringing an end to one of the longest sustained eras of prosperity in US history. One of the reasons our economy was able to spring back from the natural and man made disasters of recent year is that low tax rates caused capital to flow freely to were it was needed in the economy. High capital gains taxes as proposed by Obama will cause those sitting on capital gains to continue to do so because of the tax liability incurred by selling the asset. If investors are not willing to move their money around there's no capital available for new businesses.

It's not just a matter of Obama raising taxes, he doesn't understand how to raise taxes to maximise revenues. All those wonderful benefits he's promising won't amount to diddly if he can't raise the revenues. I lived through the Carter years and don't want to go through that again. Obama's policies will result in a stagnant US economy and lower the standard of living for all Americans.

SERGEANTX

Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:04 AM

The best hope I can muster is along the lines of Frem's pov. Even though I can't bring myself to vote for him, it seems certain Obama will win, which will be a little better than McCain. The hope part is in the possibility that the Republicans will be reminded of their small government rhetoric and fight Obama's 'great society' tooth and nail. I doubt we'll get a Repub congress for the first two years, but if we can survive that long, we'll almost certainly get some decent opposition in the aftermath.

Of course I'd like to think Americans would get tired of trading one authoritarian, corporate party for the other, but that would seem be a naive hope at best.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock