Terminator: SCC episode 2

POSTED BY: farfly
UPDATED: Monday, September 22, 2008 16:28
VIEWED: 7464
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JONGSSTRAW

Friday, September 19, 2008 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hoperules:
Does it ever bother anyone else that Sarah is trying to stop something that ultimately results in the birth of John? If the robots don't take over John would never have asked the the guy who would be his father to go back in time to protect Sarah and in the end conceive John. If the robots don't take over in the future she would never even know about them. I kind of thought the last movie explained the inevitability of the whole thing. What does not make sense to me is that Sarah does not see that and spend her energy keeping John safe so he can fulfill his destiny. That at least makes a little sense because the robots want there to be no John and are trying to change history to eliminate him. Even in the future where machines inevitability take over John is the leader and hope for the human race. No John would definitely be good for them.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I think you bring up some interesting points. Time travel is a squirrely thing. In some time travel stories like for example Outer Limits' " A Stitch In Time" it is theorized that the time traveller (Amanda Plummer) can go back into the past and change history. When she returns to the present, the world is a different place due to the alteration of events shaping history, but she still remembers the original time line as well as the new one she helped create. The ramifications of her tampering manifest themselves by overloading her brain with an entire set of new historical realities. Her ability to continue to time travel is curtailed due to the intense pressure on her brain that causes hemmoraging. One would think that the ability to time travel could be the ultimate weapon, or possibly the ultimate instrument for good. Star Trek Voyager's episode "Year of Hell" delved into this quite well. I'm a pushover for time travel themed adventures...any and all of them. Sometimes they seem to be logical and other times they seem to defy logic. Best, at least for me, is to just go with the flow and enjoy, and not try to to over-analyze.

HOPERULES

Friday, September 19, 2008 2:51 PM

I know you're right about the "go with the flow and enjoy" thing. But in this particular case, Sarah's behavior seems so illogical and stupid it is hard for me to get past it. However, I do find the show entertaining, so I guess I have to let it go. Boy is that hard.

P.S. I wonder if Sarah ever realizes that if she succeeds (probably impossible)there is a good chance that John would just go "poof" and never exist. See what I mean - hard to let it go.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

ZEEK

Friday, September 19, 2008 3:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hoperules:
Does it ever bother anyone else that Sarah is trying to stop something that ultimately results in the birth of John? If the robots don't take over John would never have asked the the guy who would be his father to go back in time to protect Sarah and in the end conceive John. If the robots don't take over in the future she would never even know about them. I kind of thought the last movie explained the inevitability of the whole thing. What does not make sense to me is that Sarah does not see that and spend her energy keeping John safe so he can fulfill his destiny. That at least makes a little sense because the robots want there to be no John and are trying to change history to eliminate him. Even in the future where machines inevitability take over John is the leader and hope for the human race. No John would definitely be good for them.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

The way I justify it in my head is that the story we follow in Terminator is one distinct reality and really nothing they do effects anything but their own reality. The John we know is not the John who leads the resistance that is sending people back to help. That John was born normally in one reality and he effed everything up by sending people back. Kyle told Sarah about John and then knocked her up so Sarah mistakenly assumed her son is the same John. However, this John has Kyle as a father instead of whoever would have really impregnated her if time travel wasn't involved.

It would be really cool if they followed that as the story line and in T4 we find out that the John we know is not this great leader that everyone thought he was destined to become. He's trying to live up to a legend of someone else's life. I think that could have some interesting twists to it.

CYBERSNARK

Friday, September 19, 2008 3:16 PM

Technically, Skynet is the one who started the time war; if John hadn't sent Kyle back, Sarah would've died.

And you're assuming that John would forget "oh, Kyle Reese needs to go back in time." I'd imagine that, even in a non-Skynet world, John would remember the circumstances of his birth and send Kyle back (with the proper cover-story).

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

HOPERULES

Friday, September 19, 2008 4:55 PM

That makes sense, although Sarah's John would probably cease to exist if she succeeds. A small price to pay for the survival of the human race, I guess. However, I doubt Sarah would think so.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

HOPERULES

Friday, September 19, 2008 5:17 PM

If Skynet and the robots never take over the world and send a terminator back to kill Sarah, why would an ordinary woman living in the 20th century believe any story that Kyle gives her about time travel and the need to destroy basically innocent people who are doing research that will lead to technology that will threaten the human race? I know I would find it a bit hard to believe without Arnold trying to terminate me. And if Sarah somehow was convinced, I think John the kid would just think his mother was a nut case unless some shape shifting cop comes after him.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

ZEEK

Friday, September 19, 2008 10:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Technically, Skynet is the one who started the time war; if John hadn't sent Kyle back, Sarah would've died.

And you're assuming that John would forget "oh, Kyle Reese needs to go back in time." I'd imagine that, even in a non-Skynet world, John would remember the circumstances of his birth and send Kyle back (with the proper cover-story).

Yep but clearly that first John is a different John. There's no way he's the John fathered by Kyle because he'd never have existed that first time to send Kyle back. So, my theory is that we're now dealing with a different John. They have the same name but that's just Sarah's mistake.

Basically this is my way of solving the John sent his own father back paradox. It's not really a paradox if that first John is not the same John fathered by Kyle. There was some other father that first time around and now we have a John who thinks he has this destiny that really isn't his. It's the destiny of John #1 with mystery dad.

ECGORDON

Friday, September 19, 2008 10:42 PM

Zeek's theory does make a lot of sense, but when you are talking time travel theories it's easy to formulate just about any hypothesis.

Future John could very easily be the adult version of the John we know from T2, T3 and TSCC. He knows he has to send Kyle back in order to be born in the first place because Sarah told him about Kyle being his father.

If Skynet ever finds out who John's father is/was then all they have to do is get to Kyle in the future (but before John sent him back), kill him, then John goes *poof* because he was never born.

ZEEK

Monday, September 22, 2008 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
If Skynet ever finds out who John's father is/was then all they have to do is get to Kyle in the future (but before John sent him back), kill him, then John goes *poof* because he was never born.

That's an interesting one. They could even accomplish this by never creating the time machine in the first place. Rather than trying to kill John by sending a terminator back just don't send anything back and John can never be born.

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