Did Summer's new show just become defunct??
POSTED BY: Bringitback
UPDATED: Monday, March 10, 2008 21:42
VIEWED: 8079
PAGE 4 of 5
The suggestion of Cameron being based on John's daughter seems creepy in a pedo way. You sent back your daughter's image figuring she'll be attractive to you when you were a teenager with raging hormones? kinda eeeww. Not implausible, tho. The timeline following T3 and before TTSCC has the future John and Kate - no certainty that John has died in this timeline. John is sending back a team where the plan is to jump him past the Skynet ascention, so he knows he will not meet Kate again, ending the Kate&John bloodline, including their Cameron (as well as the line of Kyle Reese). Sending back the image of Cameron will be the only way this union will be visible (represented) in all future timelines.
For those links to interviews, link 1 and 3 seem the same. I read them all, and don't see any conflict with all of the installmaents being consistent in story. Most of those seem to be prior to the pilot, when they were trying to explain the show without revealing too much spoiler, and in a way people could understand. Technically, saying TTSCC is a seperate timeline from T3 is the same as saying each sucessive installment is a seperate timel;ine from the previous installments. Really, if T2 was already an existing timeline in the future that sent back Kyle Reese, then they would have already fixed that problem the first time. If the T3 timeline was already existing in the future that sent back the terminators in T1 and T2, then they would have already fixed the T3 problem then. None of that happened because the subsequent timelines resulting from the last installment have to have the conclusions found in the future, and then the solution for the newset installment starts a newer "alternate" timeline - that is the goal of EACH and EVERY installment - to create an "alternate" timeline, with the hopefull result being Skynet doesn't score Judgement Day.
I don't see a conflict between T3, TTSCC, or what T4, T5, T6 could be.
Regarding the date of Judgement Day, each revision of the timeline (changed by the sending back of terminators) has included Judgement Day being altered with the new timeline. The original Judgment day was something like 1996 or 1997, right? T2 also had that. T2 changed it to 2004, which is the history that T3 knew and also became. TTSCC apparently has 2011.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fidsah:
You know, if you listen to the opening monologue, you gain some solid insight into how this story is being written.
"In the future, my son will lead mankind in a war on SkyNet, the computer system programmed to destory the world.
"It has sent machines back through time.
"Some to kill him.
"One to protect him."
So according to the show, SkyNet itself sent Cameron back to protect John Connor.
That's goofy. The pre-edited version may have said something like "Skynet created a retro-time machine, which has sent machines back through time."
"Some to kill him.
"One to protect him."
Or maybe they have something else going on.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
In the first place they have never really explained how the device actually works, and like almost all time travel presentations they fail to consider the most basic element to it...that of objects in space travelling at great speeds. The Earth and everything on it orbits the sun, and the entire solar system orbits the galactic center....so if you time travel 20 years into the past, you also need a method to travel hundreds of millions of miles to "capture" Earth...'cause it 'aint where it used to be ...it's far far away.
Thanks for spelling this out because I've been too lazy to do so. This is the best explanation of why the effects of "The Time Machine" are suspect.
However, have you considered the factor of Gravity? The space-time field is greatly effected by gravity, check Einstein's works. If Time and Gravity are interdependant, an object (person) within Earth's Gravity field could be kept within Earth's Time and Gravity parameters while travelling back and forward in Earth's Time periods. This would help keep one with Earth's position in orbit around the Sun, and also with Earth as our Galaxy moves through the Universe. But rotating with the Earth, likely not. On
Earth, our Gravity is counteracted by centrifugal force. The suspension of centrifugal force due to lack of the object (person) spinning around would free up the Gravity to balance the Time travel (warping/shifting of Time). This would suggest the object would be swallowed by the mountain ranges as the World Turns underfoot, and destinating times and locations would need careful calculation. But this takes care of the larger space concern of travelling Galaxies and the speed of Earth through the Universe.
Outside of a decent Gravity, tho, might be a different matter. Consider a spaceship leaves the Gravity fields of Earth and even the Sun. Time travelling would leave them in likely another solar system. Then they reverse time travel while in the Gravity field of that system - thus they are back at the same time thay left, but are now far, far from where they started. In, Effect, Time Warp Space Travel. Eh?
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
In the first place they have never really explained how the device actually works, and like almost all time travel presentations they fail to consider the most basic element to it...that of objects in space travelling at great speeds. The Earth and everything on it orbits the sun, and the entire solar system orbits the galactic center....so if you time travel 20 years into the past, you also need a method to travel hundreds of millions of miles to "capture" Earth...'cause it 'aint where it used to be ...it's far far away.
Thanks for spelling this out because I've been too lazy to do so. This is the best explanation of why the effects of "The Time Machine" are suspect.
However, have you considered the factor of Gravity? The space-time field is greatly effected by gravity, check Einstein's works. If Time and Gravity are interdependant, an object (person) within Earth's Gravity field could be kept within Earth's Time and Gravity parameters while travelling back and forward in Earth's Time periods. This would help keep one with Earth's position in orbit around the Sun, and also with Earth as our Galaxy moves through the Universe. But rotating with the Earth, likely not. On
Earth, our Gravity is counteracted by centrifugal force. The suspension of centrifugal force due to lack of the object (person) spinning around would free up the Gravity to balance the Time travel (warping/shifting of Time). This would suggest the object would be swallowed by the mountain ranges as the World Turns underfoot, and destinating times and locations would need careful calculation. But this takes care of the larger space concern of travelling Galaxies and the speed of Earth through the Universe.
Outside of a decent Gravity, tho, might be a different matter. Consider a spaceship leaves the Gravity fields of Earth and even the Sun. Time travelling would leave them in likely another solar system. Then they reverse time travel while in the Gravity field of that system - thus they are back at the same time thay left, but are now far, far from where they started. In, Effect, Time Warp Space Travel. Eh?
The space-travel conundrum has always bothered me about almost all time travel movies. At least in Time After Time they showed the time traveller ending up in San Francisco after beginning his voyage in London...I don't know if that is "scientifically" correct, but it was a nice touch nonetheless. Your "gravity" theory is interesting and compelling. It certainly would help rationalize all the other time travel movies like the 2 Time Machine movies, where the machine sat still in the same place as events in the past or future unfolded before the traveller's eyes. It kinda reminds me of Dune's folding space, travelling without moving.
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Cameron is obviously Data's daughter sent back by the Federation Time Corps to make sure mankind attempts to destroy itself, meets the Vulcans and ultimately gives birth to the Federation.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earlywarning:
Cameron is obviously Data's daughter sent back by the Federation Time Corps to make sure mankind attempts to destroy itself, meets the Vulcans and ultimately gives birth to the Federation.
I thought Doktor Who put an end to that nonsense.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
In the first place they have never really explained how the device actually works, and like almost all time travel presentations they fail to consider the most basic element to it...that of objects in space travelling at great speeds. The Earth and everything on it orbits the sun, and the entire solar system orbits the galactic center....so if you time travel 20 years into the past, you also need a method to travel hundreds of millions of miles to "capture" Earth...'cause it 'aint where it used to be ...it's far far away.
Thanks for spelling this out because I've been too lazy to do so. This is the best explanation of why the effects of "The Time Machine" are suspect.
However, have you considered the factor of Gravity? The space-time field is greatly effected by gravity, check Einstein's works. If Time and Gravity are interdependant, an object (person) within Earth's Gravity field could be kept within Earth's Time and Gravity parameters while travelling back and forward in Earth's Time periods. This would help keep one with Earth's position in orbit around the Sun, and also with Earth as our Galaxy moves through the Universe. But rotating with the Earth, likely not. On
Earth, our Gravity is counteracted by centrifugal force. The suspension of centrifugal force due to lack of the object (person) spinning around would free up the Gravity to balance the Time travel (warping/shifting of Time). This would suggest the object would be swallowed by the mountain ranges as the World Turns underfoot, and destinating times and locations would need careful calculation. But this takes care of the larger space concern of travelling Galaxies and the speed of Earth through the Universe.
Outside of a decent Gravity, tho, might be a different matter. Consider a spaceship leaves the Gravity fields of Earth and even the Sun. Time travelling would leave them in likely another solar system. Then they reverse time travel while in the Gravity field of that system - thus they are back at the same time thay left, but are now far, far from where they started. In, Effect, Time Warp Space Travel. Eh?
The space-travel conundrum has always bothered me about almost all time travel movies. At least in Time After Time they showed the time traveller ending up in San Francisco after beginning his voyage in London...I don't know if that is "scientifically" correct, but it was a nice touch nonetheless. Your "gravity" theory is interesting and compelling. It certainly would help rationalize all the other time travel movies like the 2 Time Machine movies, where the machine sat still in the same place as events in the past or future unfolded before the traveller's eyes. It kinda reminds me of Dune's folding space, travelling without moving.
Have you also seen The Prestige?
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Technically, saying TTSCC is a seperate timeline from T3 is the same as saying each sucessive installment is a seperate timel;ine from the previous installments. Really, if T2 was already an existing timeline in the future that sent back Kyle Reese, then they would have already fixed that problem the first time. If the T3 timeline was already existing in the future that sent back the terminators in T1 and T2, then they would have already fixed the T3 problem then. None of that happened because the subsequent timelines resulting from the last installment have to have the conclusions found in the future, and then the solution for the newset installment starts a newer "alternate" timeline - that is the goal of EACH and EVERY installment - to create an "alternate" timeline, with the hopefull result being Skynet doesn't score Judgement Day.
I don't see a conflict between T3, TTSCC, or what T4, T5, T6 could be.
Either you are really committed to thinking it all gels, or you don't get it. Yeah, some of the quotes were veiled, but the show hadn't started, and they were trying not to let things slip.
Here's the thing: In the SCC timeline, the T3 Judgement Day in 2004 didn't happen. Cameron clearly states that Judgement Day was in 2011 - thus, different timeline.
T4 is following after the events in T3. Judgement day has happened, in 2004, as presented in the movie.
And yes, the date of Judgement day changed in T3 from T2 - but that was the pointmof the story - and Judgement day never happened in the present timeline in T1 or T2. It was still in the future, and thus, mutable. In T3, it was no longer a possibility - it happened. And SCC takes place after that, with the world still intact.
I think this quote from Friedman in the IGN interview says it all (I thought I had included it in the original post, but missed it):
Quote:http://tv.ign.com/articles/798/798086p1.html
"We’re gonna go off on our own. I think the thing about T3 is, obviously there was just no Sarah Connor and that’s something the fans were never happy with. I don’t even think the people who made T3 were happy with that. It just wasn’t a choice of theirs. You know, Linda Hamilton was going through some things and didn’t want to be a part of it. They had a script at one point I know; there was a T3 that had Sarah in it. I’ve never read it. I don’t know anything about it. But I know that they did and they wanted to do that. They wanted it to be kind of her trilogy, and it never could be. So I think that my feeling was this TV series to me sort of serves as the third act to that trilogy - what could have happened had we followed that after T2. So I almost think of this as T3. To me it takes the place of T3. But also I think that sort of in the spirit of Terminator, it’s an alternate timeline. I know a lot of people get very worked up about the continuity and the canon and all that stuff. What I try to do is stay very, very true to the first two movies and then sort of take it from there. But always remain true to the spirit of everyone’s intent and again, take some time with this woman and explore what maybe would have happened."
He slags off T3 several times, says clearly that he is only following 1&2, calls his show a replacement for T3, and stright-up says it's an alternate timeline. What more proof does anyone need?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Technically, saying TTSCC is a seperate timeline from T3 is the same as saying each sucessive installment is a seperate timel;ine from the previous installments. Really, if T2 was already an existing timeline in the future that sent back Kyle Reese, then they would have already fixed that problem the first time. If the T3 timeline was already existing in the future that sent back the terminators in T1 and T2, then they would have already fixed the T3 problem then. None of that happened because the subsequent timelines resulting from the last installment have to have the conclusions found in the future, and then the solution for the newset installment starts a newer "alternate" timeline - that is the goal of EACH and EVERY installment - to create an "alternate" timeline, with the hopefull result being Skynet doesn't score Judgement Day.
I don't see a conflict between T3, TTSCC, or what T4, T5, T6 could be.
Either you are really committed to thinking it all gels, or you don't get it. Yeah, some of the quotes were veiled, but the show hadn't started, and they were trying not to let things slip.
Here's the thing: In the SCC timeline, the T3 Judgement Day in 2004 didn't happen. Cameron clearly states that Judgement Day was in 2011 - thus, different timeline.
T4 is following after the events in T3. Judgement day has happened, in 2004, as presented in the movie.
And yes, the date of Judgement day changed in T3 from T2 - but that was the pointmof the story - and Judgement day never happened in the present timeline in T1 or T2. It was still in the future, and thus, mutable. In T3, it was no longer a possibility - it happened. And SCC takes place after that, with the world still intact.
I think this quote from Friedman in the IGN interview says it all (I thought I had included it in the original post, but missed it):Quote:http://tv.ign.com/articles/798/798086p1.html
"We’re gonna go off on our own. I think the thing about T3 is, obviously there was just no Sarah Connor and that’s something the fans were never happy with. I don’t even think the people who made T3 were happy with that. It just wasn’t a choice of theirs. You know, Linda Hamilton was going through some things and didn’t want to be a part of it. They had a script at one point I know; there was a T3 that had Sarah in it. I’ve never read it. I don’t know anything about it. But I know that they did and they wanted to do that. They wanted it to be kind of her trilogy, and it never could be. So I think that my feeling was this TV series to me sort of serves as the third act to that trilogy - what could have happened had we followed that after T2. So I almost think of this as T3. To me it takes the place of T3. But also I think that sort of in the spirit of Terminator, it’s an alternate timeline. I know a lot of people get very worked up about the continuity and the canon and all that stuff. What I try to do is stay very, very true to the first two movies and then sort of take it from there. But always remain true to the spirit of everyone’s intent and again, take some time with this woman and explore what maybe would have happened."
He slags off T3 several times, says clearly that he is only following 1&2, calls his show a replacement for T3, and stright-up says it's an alternate timeline. What more proof does anyone need?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
That link is more helpful.
You may believe whatever you choose to. It's not my job to explain or convince you. If you REALLY think TTSCC has a timeline that meshes with T1 & T2 but does not mesh with T3 or T4, then maybe you are really committed to thinking they don't all gel, or you don't get it.
T1 states Judgement Day is August 1997. Terminators and the rise of Skynet is n
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I still don't see how you can think it's all the same timeline when the creator of the show has stated, unambiguously, that it is a seperate timeline, but whatever.....
As for changes between the movies, the thing you are missing is that while details changed concerning Judgement day and the date - those changes were made to events in the futre - things that had not happened yet. What had already past was never altered.
TSCC does diverge from what has happened in the past, effectively making the events of T3 impossible (unless Judgement Day happened, and the people of LA in TSCC didn't notice). That is where the timeline diverges. Cameron didn't say JD happens in 2004, so they have to jump past it. She stated from the first that it happens in 2011. It's not adhering to the T3 timeline - it eradicated it.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Also (and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause it's been so long since I've seen it), doesn't our knowledge of "the T2 timeline" come from the beginning of T2, via Uncle Bob? I.e., before the events of the movie (Dyson's death, the Cyberdyne shutdown, the destruction of the Cold Unfeeling Robot Hand, etc)?
That timeline could easily have been rendered null within T2 itself.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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