Earth-That-Was...Greatest scam in history !

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, November 17, 2007 17:22
VIEWED: 5719
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FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, November 12, 2007 1:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Uhhh, no, dumass*. I rate the economy by how big the poor class is, the purchasing power of the individual, the wealth of the wealthy vs. the poverty in the streets, etc.
If you just want to go by how many billionaires there are, then certainly, our economy is roaring away, and no little recession will affect that.

*put in for effect only.

Yeah, I think you just proved my point.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Monday, November 12, 2007 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yeah, I think you just proved my point.

What Finn? That I have some political agenda?
All of a sudden you sound so hostile

.

There's three kinds of peeps in this world; those that see social and economic Darwinism as perfectly natural and fine, those that want us to 'evolve beyond that' (to quote Picard), and those that are disconnected from the fray.
I simply want 'humanity' to trump greed, don't you?
That's not ostensibly left OR right IMO.
I have a HUMAN agenda.

...some may see it as a utopian one, I don't know....

So. What do ya think of Ron Paul?

Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, November 12, 2007 3:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yeah, I think you just proved my point.

What Finn? That I have some political agenda?
All of a sudden you sound so hostile.

I’m not the least bit hostile, though I do think that you are desperately trying to avoid hearing me, which is ironically exactly what you accuse Auraptor of.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I simply want 'humanity' to trump greed, don't you?
That's not ostensibly left OR right IMO.
I have a HUMAN agenda.

...some may see it as a utopian one, I don't know....

Whatever you want to call it. Nonetheless, you’re still defining the state of the economy by your ideological view and not the actual state of the economy. I have a friend who insists that the Chinese economy is always crap, no matter what’s going on in China, because China is a communist state. My friend’s ideological disagreement with communism prevents him from assessing the true state of the Chinese economy. I don’t see any difference between his point of view and you insisting that the US economy is “bad” because you don’t like greedy rich people. Basically the fallacy that you’re working with here is that if I don’t admit to you that the US capitalist economy is “bad” that means I’m greedy or I condone abject materialism, which is nonsense. What does my condoning abject materialism, assuming I do, have to do with the shape of the US economy?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So. What do ya think of Ron Paul?

He’s the Republican answer to Dennis Kucinich.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

AURAPTOR

Monday, November 12, 2007 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
you, like many of your ideological comrades
That is so cold-war.

Speaking of comrades, don't you find it the least bit odd that the goals and interest of the old soviet commie types line up exatly w/ the goals and interest of the new greenies ?

Diminish the status of the Western nations, kill their economies, cut back their energy production, while countires like China , who pollute more and more, are barely affected?

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Monday, November 12, 2007 2:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I do think that you are desperately trying to avoid hearing me, which is ironically exactly what you accuse Auraptor of.

That's a possibility...*must ponder this*

Quote:
Nonetheless, you’re still defining the state of the economy by your ideological view and not the actual state of the economy.

I was defining the state of the economy by it's effect on the larger group...the same way that you could say a bus that is functioning perfectly and has a good strong engine is doing fine, even though it has a slight hole in it's muffler and floor boards, allowing carbon monoxide to seep into the passenger area and make folks sick.

Analogous Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Monday, November 12, 2007 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Diminish the status of the Western nations

That's not MY goal...

Quote:
kill their economies

OR that...

Quote:
cut back their energy production

maybe a little, but usage is more my interest...

Quote:
while countires like China , who pollute more and more, are barely affected?

We can't dictate to corrupt Neo-Comms how to clean up their act...

'Splainin' Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, November 12, 2007 5:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I was defining the state of the economy by it's effect on the larger group...the same way that you could say a bus that is functioning perfectly and has a good strong engine is doing fine, even though it has a slight hole in it's muffler and floor boards, allowing carbon monoxide to seep into the passenger area and make folks sick.

Not really. You were defining the economy based on values of morality, not any criteria of the function or effect of the economy. Avarice and egocentricity are not economic indicators. They are human flaws. They are moral judgments defining the sins of the people believed to control the economy. When the economy is growing and unemployment is down, the Left-wing types tell you that the economy is doing poorly, because it‘s what they want to believe and what they want you to beleive. It‘s almost a religious conviction. Then when the economy starts to slow, they point a finger and say “See, I was right all along!!” But in reality, they were full of shit from the beginning. The economy just goes up and down like that.

And actually, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the US has NOT experienced a real recession since before 1982, when Reagan pulled us out of the recession in the 70s. For the last 25 years, the US has been in an economic boom.

The economy is run by flawed people who all have their various sins to contend with. People like to throw fits about greed, but not all rich people are sons of bitches. Often gluttony gets a pass, but the truth is that there are a lot of people out there who are poor simply because they want their wealth handed to them. There are different points of view about how the economy should deal with these various sins. Some think we need an aristocracy. A wealthy elite to control the economy and bestow upon the peasants the wealth the aristocrats think they deserve. Others think we need a purely Laissez-faire economy where people succeed based on their own ability, and the aristocrats stay the hell away. I lean more towards the laissez-faire side, but in all honesty I like having an aristocrat smite those who might unfairly exploit others disadvantages. Though the laissez-faire side might traditionally be more likely to be a strong economy, there is nothing to say that a capitalist economy won‘t collapse and communism will. An aristocracy, like the Chinese communism or the Nazi regime can be successful. It might not be a place I want to live, but it certainly can have a strong economy. And similiarly with the Left-wing types, just because some people don't agree with the US brand of capitalism, doesn't mean the US economy is bad, when actually it is quite strong.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Monday, November 12, 2007 6:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
just because some people don't agree with the US brand of capitalism, doesn't mean the US economy is bad, when actually it is quite strong.

Okay Finn, thanks for the adjustment. I need to be able to separate my thoughts better.
So, the last 25 years has been a steady rise...it's just that wages haven't grown as fast and cuts in benefits were necessary and layoffs and outsourcing (hi, Abu) caused many to accept lower paying jobs and loans were given to too many who couldn't afford them, but the loans were sold back and forth- so the overall effect of THIS economy was not all so very good for the average person although in measurable $ exchange it was strong.
Do I get it now? I'm really asking, BTW.
(this is all in Chrisisall-dummy-talk, of course

)

Financial wiz Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Monday, November 12, 2007 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay Finn, thanks for the adjustment. I need to be able to separate my thoughts better.
So, the last 25 years has been a steady rise...it's just that wages haven't grown as fast and cuts in benefits were necessary and layoffs and outsourcing (hi, Abu) caused many to accept lower paying jobs and loans were given to too many who couldn't afford them, but the loans were sold back and forth- so the overall effect of THIS economy was not all so very good for the average person although in measurable $ exchange it was strong.
Do I get it now? I'm really asking, BTW.
(this is all in Chrisisall-dummy-talk, of course)

I think that’s a more reasonable position to take. I don’t really know what you mean by the “average person.” I’m pretty average and the last 25 years have been pretty good to me. The economy has exhibited an unprecedented low interest rates, unemployment has been low, both of which help the average guy quite a bit. I don’t like that the US dollar is weak in relation to the Euro, because it makes it more difficult for me to travel to Europe and ultimately might cause an increase in the cost of living. People used to claim that Reaganomics hurt the little guy, but in hind sight, it seems the opposite was true. I’m not disagreeing that there are problems with the economy. The economy is also a big animal though and generally just about anything that ripples through it will have both negative and positive effects. It’s the net effect of those ripples that matter, and I don’t know how well I am at assessing details like that. I’m not ready to say that the net effect of the economy has been bad for the average person. Fletch2 would be a better person to ask, however.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Monday, November 12, 2007 6:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think that’s a more reasonable position to take.

We 'ave an accord!

Thanks for getting me more precise Chrisisall

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