Aurap..siggy ..it some CFR...
POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Friday, November 9, 2007 02:01
VIEWED: 13706
PAGE 7 of 21
Quote:Believe it or not, you're not the final arbiter of truth AU, saying "it's a moot point" doesn't make it so. What I'm more amazed about is how you, and others are so hell bent on turning this into a "whose religion is better" issue. There's enough skeletons in every closet to make THAT a moot point.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're mixing apples and oranges. Are the Fred Phelps of the world as deranged and off kilter as OBL and al Qaeda? Perhaps in their views, yes, but in how they run their organizations or how they chop off the heads of those who they oppose......it's a moot point.
Quote:Mohammed Bouyeri, but I guess you want the answer "A Muslim", like they're some sort of Gestalt. Not that it proves anything (unless you ignore the fact that murder is an act unrestrained by ones religious affiliation). Muslims didn't invent Murder, and they're not the only ones killing people in the name of their religion.
Who killed Theo Van Gogh?
Jeffrey Dahmer was a fundamentalist Christian, the difference between you and me is that I don't think that proves anything.
Quote:Actually Christians do this as well. It's a cultural, rather than religious issue.
Who kiils their daughters that shame the family name ?
Quote:You want the list? It's a lot longer than "some Muslim sects".
Who routinely mutilates young girls genitals ?
Quote:Unless and until you can stop making this into a "their evil we're good" issue, there's no way we can move on as a species.
Unless and until you can honestly answer those types of qusetions, then there's no point in even moving forward w/ the discussion.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Believe it or not, you're not the final arbiter of truth AU, saying "it's a moot point" doesn't make it so. What I'm more amazed about is how you, and others are so hell bent on turning this into a "whose religion is better" issue. There's enough skeletons in every closet to make THAT a moot point.
Yes, it DOES make it so if you're trying to distort the issue and I'm the only one honest enough to call you out on it. I'm not talking about skeletons in closets, I'm talking about how folks are living ( and murdering ) for their religion TODAY. Play the moral equivalency game somewhere else. Islmo - fascism IS the worst religion. Period. All others run a distant 2nd in this contest.
Quote:
Jeffrey Dahmer was a fundamentalist Christian, the difference between you and me is that I don't think that proves anything.
Dahmer wasn't a fundementalist Christian until AFTER he was caught and in prison. He wasn't slicing and dicing his victims in the name Jesus. Nice try. Oh, wait....no it wasn't. But
Mohammed Bouyeri,( aka Abu Zubair ),a Muslim, specifically DID kill Van Gogh because he felt his religion gave him the right to do so. He even pinned a nice note on Theo's dead body. Such the considerate religious killer.
Christians don't mutilate their young women anywhere near the numbers as do Muslims. Where it does occur, the practice predates the word of Christianity spreading to parts of Africa, and has little to do w/ the teachings. Unlike with Islam, where Sharia law and Islam are, in many places , intertwined.
There's no denying they ( the Islamo Jihadist ) are evil. They're as evil as humans come, and that's not debatable. As a culture and as a religious sect, the rest of the world would be better off if such zealots didn't exist. Some have known this for a while, some are still blind to the facts. If this sounds too 'scary' for you to consider, then think of the alternative.
"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Except you're the one making it an issue of 'whose religion is better', not I. I'm not the one distorting the 'issue', and frankly, you being the only one 'calling me out' on it doesn't make you 'honest'. Like we all secretly agree with you, but can't admit the fact, please.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, it DOES make it so if you're trying to distort the issue and I'm the only one honest enough to call you out on it.
You need to realise theres a difference between your opinion, and objective facts.
Quote:Erm, there's people killing in the name of every religion today, it's just Muslim extremism gets the most press. They're the new Jews, it's hip to hate Mohammed.
I'm not talking about skeletons in closets, I'm talking about how folks are living ( and murdering ) for their religion TODAY.
Get a bit closer and you'll realise that not no ones shit smells like roses.
Quote:Woah, take a deep breath there skip. Who are we talking about exactly? Because you know, 'Islamo-fascism' isn't a religion, it's a made up term to make hating a group of people easier, kinda like 'international Jewry' in that regard. If you're going to start waxing made up words as if they're some sort of meaningful term we might as well stop right here.
Islmo - fascism IS the worst religion. Period. All others run a distant 2nd in this contest.
Are we talking about "Islam", because Islam is fairly unremarkable in it's level of violence, or are we talking about "Islamic Terrorists", because they're really not a religion. What exactly are we talking about? Define the term please.
Quote:Way to miss the point there big fella.
Dahmer wasn't a fundementalist Christian until AFTER he was caught and in prison. He wasn't slicing and dicing his victims in the name Jesus. Nice try. Oh, wait....no it wasn't.
Quote:Are you really trying to tell me that you don't believe Christians, or any other religious group has members that kill for their religion today? Come on man, read a newspaper.
But Mohammed Bouyeri,( aka Abu Zubair ),a Muslim, specifically DID kill Van Gogh because he felt his religion gave him the right to do so. He even pinned a nice note on Theo's dead body. Such the considerate religious killer.
Quote:*sigh* I wasn't making this a Christian vs Muslim issue. This is another Cultural issue, not an Islam issue.
Christians don't mutilate their young women anywhere near the numbers as do Muslims.
Quote:This sentence makes no sense. Christianity predates Islam by quite some way. Christianity in Africa is recorded in the Bible, it's been there as long as Christianity has existed. Islam didn't start coming into the continent until the 7th Century. How can the practice predate Christianity, but not Islam, that makes no sense.
Where it does occur, the practice predates the word of Christianity spreading to parts of Africa, and has little to do w/ the teachings. Unlike with Islam, where Sharia law and Islam are, in many places , intertwined.
Quote:I think you need to re-read my statements, and not just assume I'm a pro-Terrorist because I disagree with you.
There's no denying they ( the Islamo Jihadist ) are evil. They're as evil as humans come, and that's not debatable. As a culture and as a religious sect, the rest of the world would be better off if such zealots didn't exist. Some have known this for a while, some are still blind to the facts. If this sounds too 'scary' for you to consider, then think of the alternative.
Now I agree, Islamic Terrorists aren't cuddle bunnies, but you're not stopping at "Islamic Terrorists are fucked up", you're going on to "Islamic Terrorists are fucked up, so Islam is fucked up, therefore all (or most) Muslims are fucked up". It's a conclusion that doesn't follow, it's an association fallacy.
You're then making another, even worse leap, and assuming that Muslims have the market cornered on un-cuddle bunny like behaviour. You seem to be raising confirmation bias to the level o
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Let's be truly blunt.
Taken as a whole, it smells of the same fearful racism that spawned the Klan, it really does, the rhetoric is even exactly the same.
The point I was making is that just cause THOSE guys -->
Are some serious dickheads...
Does not in any way make THESE guys <--
Any kind of righteous.
To make an analogy some folk might better understand - which would you fear more, the murderer eight states away who only owns a bicycle, or the mugger eight houses down the row ?
Chances of some jihadist ever trying to force his religion on me at gunpoint ?
About fucking zilch.
Chances of some christian fundamentalist trying to force his religion on me by using our own government as a lever ?
100%
I'm not gonna get into all the details, but many of the things my beliefs entertwine with are outright illegal - like the belief that a person has the right to do anything they damn well please to themSELF, long as they deliver no harm to others.
And as I said before, both sides would like to wipe me and mine off the planet, and one of em lives HERE.
Simple. Freakin. Logic.
They're the greater threat.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:I've seen the rhetoric before, but not from the Klan...
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Let's be truly blunt.
Taken as a whole, it smells of the same fearful racism that spawned the Klan, it really does, the rhetoric is even exactly the same.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Who has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis for "freedom"?
I love the way how y'all expand the issue from murderous religious zealots TODAY to citizens simply having a say in Gov't, or dredging up history from 100's of yrs ago. Wow. Big shocker there (sarcasm)
You're mixing apples and oranges. Are the Fred Phelps of the world as deranged and off kilter as OBL and al Qaeda? Perhaps in their views, yes, but in how they run their organizations or how they chop off the heads of those who they oppose......it's a moot point. Who killed Theo Van Gogh? Who kiils their daughters that shame the family name ? Who routinely mutilates young girls genitals ?
I'm going to engage in moral absolutism again: Dead is dead. If you kill someone for anything other than immediate self defense or defense of others... and I don't mean a general hand-waving defense, I mean engaging in an action that is likely to save more lives than it kills... then you're a fanatic. It doesn't matter what color your fanaticism wears, whether it's the color of Xtianity, Islam, Zeusism, capitalism, or communism
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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I didn't bring up the religion game, Frem did.
I show you objective fact, and you simply call it 'opinion'. You and Baghdad Bob must be related somehow.
Islamo-fascist, Islmo-jihadsit, Muslim extremist,Radical Islam, Islamo-terrorist, etc...call it what you will, it's all the f-ing same. A world wide culture of terrorism which uses Islam as it's front while committing every known atrocity known to man. In the 21st century.
You're missing the point, fellah. YOU made a claim about Jeffery Dahmer and then when called on it, ( per usual ) you crawfish away from your original intent - making Christians sound every bit as bad as Islamo-fascits. Sorry, but the OBJECTIVE facts show otherwise. I'm sorry that pisses you off to have to hear that, but it's true. Get f-ing use to it.
Per the female genital cutting ( FGC ), it's FAR more common in Muslim practicing parts of Africa and the Mid East than any other religion. That's all you need to know.
What pisses me off is how you try to equate 2 totally unlike situations. Islmo-fascism is a wild fire burng out of control. In contrast, Christian extremism is mildly smoldering, here or there, but not causing anywhere NEAR the rampant danger and destruction as Islam. I do read the papers, and there simply aren't the car bombings, the gang rapes, the murders found in Christian cultures as there are w/ Islam.
"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[BTheir ordeal ?? Have you not seen the emaciated bodies piled 20-30ft high? The mass graves ? The ovens ? The showers/gas chambers ? Seriously, wtf is it in your brain that blocks you from acknowledging these facts ???
Not to stir up old shit for nothing Rap and anybody else who just can't believe that I don't buy the Holocaust as it was sold to us, but I saw Forrest Gump shake JFK's hand. I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book. It has nothing to do with anything against Jews, although that's the kind of reply I've been getting back (again, no big suprise).
Of course, the German people had a lot of propoganda during the war that at one time or another you've all no doubt seen. And I'm sure that you were told it was propoganda before or while you watched it.
Now let me ask you? Had the Germans won WWII, do you suppose that the German propoganda would have gone down in the history books as propoganda? History is written by the winners my friends.
And dont' bring my Uncle into this. Just like all black people shouldn't be judged by what 50 Cent says or does, many Jewish people are working class and completely without any power and you couldn't even pick them out of a crowd of white people. That's just another way of making somebody who says "why the fuck are we helping Israel out?" to be a racist.
The Jews in power have us spending tons of our tax dollars defending Israel. I don't see no point to it, just like we shouldn't be in Iraq or Iran either, but when a politician tries to point that out they're defamed and labeled an anti-semite. It is impossible to argue with a Jew that is in power because of that likely supremely over-exagerated history.
And somebody is going to argue with me about the power Jews have in the country and this world? Christ... was anybody in the world more powerful than Alan Greenspan? I rest my case.
That is why I don't believe.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book....
Of course, the German people had a lot of propoganda during ...
How do you know? 'Cause it seems like the kind of thing you might have seen on the news or read in a history book. Just sayin'.
Quote:
And dont' bring my Uncle into this.
uh.. I thought you brought up your uncle. Yeah, you did, because I didn't even know you had an uncle, or that he was Jewish until I read it in your post.
Anyway, the problem with this kind of approach is, how do you ever know what or whom to trust? You seem willing to believe a worldwide conspiracy of Jews faked the holocaust. How does that seem more plausible than genocide? It seems to take a much larger 'leap of faith' to follow your theory than the traditional story.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book....
Of course, the German people had a lot of propoganda during ...
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
How do you know? 'Cause it seems like the kind of thing you might have seen on the news or read in a history book. Just sayin'.
Wow.... nice. Now you're just playing games with me. I'm game. I'm willing to get as circular with our logic as you'd like to get.
Okay.... how's this. Of course there may or may not have been German propoganda during World War II when the Germans may or may not have been putting Jews and Polocks in the ovens. We've all seen the alleged propoganda pictures before. If this alleged propoganda were to actually have existed in the first place, and the Germans won the war, do you really believe that it would have gone down in the history books as propoganda, alleged or otherwise?
Quote:
ME: And dont' bring my Uncle into this.
Quote:
YOU: uh.. I thought you brought up your uncle. Yeah, you did, because I didn't even know you had an uncle, or that he was Jewish until I read it in your post.
That's right. I did. To illustrate that I'm not somebody that is racist against Jewish people. You know that, so let's not play games. As far as I'm concerned my uncle is just another one of the guys. I enjoy spending time with him and his family very much. I brought him up because I don't just hate somebody because their Jewish, which is what one automatically assumes when somebody, like me, says they doubt the legitimacy or the insane Hollywood story of millions of people dying and being burned without anybody knowing about it or doing anything about it if they did. Do you know how much burning flesh reeks? Take a lighter and burn some of your arm hair and see just how long that stank lingers. The entire continent of Europe all the way to Moscow would have smelled like shit for years.
You, however, turned that around on me and said that my Uncle must be evil because he is Jewish or some such nonsense. This is the exact thing that I'm trying to say is not the truth, and you bastardized and twisted my words. That is why I also said that not all black people should be judged on what 50 cent says or does. Nor should all Germans be judged on what Hitler allegedly did, for that matter.
Quote:
Anyway, the problem with this kind of approach is, how do you ever know what or whom to trust? You seem willing to believe a worldwide conspiracy of Jews faked the holocaust. How does that seem more plausible than genocide? It seems to take a much larger 'leap of faith' to follow your theory than the traditional story.
You haven't read all of my other posts Sergent? I know we've both been here a long time. I don't trust anybody. I don't even trust my self my man. I don't believe anything I didn't witness with my own eyes, and even then I still question a hell of a lot of it. I see things in trends and all I can do is comment on them.
1. Jews (see: not all jews, just those who matter and are in power) run the money and the show today. They own Wall Street, they own Hollywood, the run the FED. They are fine associating themselves with white people until it suits them to distinguish themselves as Jewish.
2. Any politician who says that we have no business in Isreal is labeled an anti-semite and risks his political career simply uttering words along those lines. What is there really in Isreal that's worth keeping. What secret lies there that they would have us defend to the point that we may cause World War III because we are simply unable to let the middle east devour it? I'm all for giving any Isrealite safe harbor here, but we need to get our ass out of that business immediately.
It just all seems very convient the way that the people without a nation have so much control over the world and the economy today.
Hey... I could be wrong. It's not as if I'm Mr Iran f
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