Is Joyce Summers dead because of Dawn?

POSTED BY: Dataless
UPDATED: Thursday, September 27, 2007 21:41
VIEWED: 13098
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DATALESS

Monday, August 13, 2007 3:51 PM

When Season 5 of Buffy begins there is on sign of Joyce's craziness or cancer. Almost as soon Dawn shows up she started getting sick. So is it a side effect of the monk's spell or is it the green energy that Dawn puts out?

Do you really blame Dawn for The Death of Joyce Summers?

EVILDINOSAUR

Monday, August 13, 2007 4:51 PM

I've often wondered that myself, as far as I can tell the writers never give us an answer and her death was by nothing but natural causes, but I do have to wonder if the spell didn't have something to do with it. I mean the show has taught us that magic has a price, so a spell as big and complex as creating a person and a history for that person, could potentially have had a side effect as severe as killing joyce.

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FUTUREMRSFILLION

Monday, August 13, 2007 4:54 PM

Or she could be dead because she was a boring and irritating character that got in the way of the bigger picture.

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PENGUIN

Monday, August 13, 2007 4:58 PM

lol

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MIRAMEL

Monday, August 13, 2007 4:58 PM

it does seem like a sideaffect of the spell, but i tend to think that was just coincidence; joss stressed the whole 'natural death' thing, and i can't imagine they'd pass up an opportunity to make dawn feel even less welcome, so if it was her fault i'm thinking we'd have heard about it.

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SINGATE

Monday, August 13, 2007 5:55 PM

Egad! Another Buffy thread with a spoiler in the title. Rally the troops of the uninitiated.

If Dawn had been created from Joyce it would be natural to assume that her death was the price for Dawn's existence. However, it was stated on more than one occasion that Dawn was taken from Buffy in order to create a connection between the two. I seem to remember Joyce making the comment, "she's not mine is she?". Or something to that effect. If anything it was Buffy who balanced the equation at the end of the season by sacrificing herself to save Dawn. If Dawn did not exist Buffy never would have had to make that choice. Of course her death wasn't quite so permanent as Joyce's.

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FILLIANGIRL4136

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
I seem to remember Joyce making the comment, "she's not mine is she?". Or something to that effect. If anything it was Buffy who balanced the equation at the end of the season by sacrificing herself to save Dawn. If Dawn did not exist Buffy never would have had to make that choice.

I was just watching that episode on Tivo. The fact that she was sick along with all the crazies that Glory created, and could see that Dawn was not really human, was a great story device. But I think the importance of comes when she says to Buffy, "But she belongs to us, doesn't she?" Even though they both know that she is not blood family, they both know that she is still family.

I really feel that Joyce's death was meant to show impact of death on family. Regardless to whether Joyce's death is directly related to Dawn's coming into the world, I still think that The Body is one the most powerful episodes emotionally of the entire series.

As for the possible message that magic has consequences, all you have to do is look at Willow at the end of the same season. Joss has always incoporated the fact that actions have consequesces, so you could imply that the creation of Dawn and the memories implanted of her could have caused her death.

But one question:
Why didn't any of the other characters have any adverse affects from the transplanted memories?

JOSSISAGOD

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:41 AM

I'm not exactly sure where I read or heard this, but I think Joss told Kristine Sutherland when she was hired, when Joyce was going to die. So, I think Joyce's death may have been caused by Glory, NOT Dawn, as I don't believe Dawn was written in until the end of the forth season at the earliest.

Fe'nos Tol
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DEEPGIRL187

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 2:19 PM

Personally, I think it would be far too simple to blame Joyce's death on Dawn's creation. I think when everything starts to revolve around magic, we lose site of the bigger picture.

Instead, I like to see Joyce's death as a way of showing everyone that the most horrible, painful episodes in life don't have to involve anything supernatural. Having Joyce die from something as mundane as a brain tumor was a reality check not only for the characters, but for us too. We get so swept up in this fantasy world, sometimes we forget how shocking and frightening a normal death is, or how helpless it makes one feel.

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ZEEK

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 3:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jossisagod:
I'm not exactly sure where I read or heard this, but I think Joss told Kristine Sutherland when she was hired, when Joyce was going to die. So, I think Joyce's death may have been caused by Glory, NOT Dawn, as I don't believe Dawn was written in until the end of the forth season at the earliest.

It's sorta the other way around. They were hinting about Dawn back in Season 3. When Faith and Buffy are making the bed in the dream sequence thing and she says something like "gotta get ready for little sis" or something. Then at the end of season 4 during the crazy first slayer dreams Tara says, "the Dawn is coming" or something like that.

As for Joyce, I know that Joss said in an interview that he told Joyce she was going to die in Season 5 right before Season 4. Basically because Joyce was taking a leave from the show (that's why she was hardly in Season 4), but he was like "but you're coming back for Season 5 right? Cause I'm gonna kill you."

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