M/I Fanfic Cliches

POSTED BY: Steamer
UPDATED: Friday, August 3, 2007 07:28
VIEWED: 10956
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STEAMER

Friday, June 1, 2007 8:51 PM

As I was plowing ahead through the furrows (snerk snerk) of a multi-pairing fic, a thought struck me and here I toss it out for your collective wisdom.

In a Simon/Kaylee story, do you find that it's too cliche for Inara to try and give Mal some perspective on their relationship, possibly leading to a quarrel? This could be whether or not there's also an M/I romantic pairing in the story. Like for instance, Mal giving Simon and Kaylee the mean-old-man routine, only to have Inara rebuff him on the virtues of young love.

That's a concept I think I wanna avoid if it's too cliched. Any thoughts? For that matter, are there any other M/I cliches you can think of that you'd like to bring up?

River's fixing
Book is balking
Preacher man
Just keeps walking
FIREFLY

Captain of the New England Browncoats

NBZ

Friday, June 1, 2007 9:45 PM

The thing about cliché's is if you do it well, no one will care. (as a point in mind, the TV show Dexter has a pretty cliché'd villain - but I have not heard a single complaint. It is carried through that well.)

It's only when done badly that people will jump on you.

Or you could set up the cliché but then not follow through... (could be lame)

In your specific example, Simon expects a threat or two. Mal refuses to entertain the notion and just walks on. Now that could be chilling. What does it mean?

AGENTROUKA

Saturday, June 2, 2007 8:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steamer:

In a Simon/Kaylee story, do you find that it's too cliche for Inara to try and give Mal some perspective on their relationship, possibly leading to a quarrel? This could be whether or not there's also an M/I romantic pairing in the story. Like for instance, Mal giving Simon and Kaylee the mean-old-man routine, only to have Inara rebuff him on the virtues of young love.

I think this has been done before quite a bit. To avoid repeating a popular theme, you could twist it a little.

They might just... not fight about it. After all, love is a touchy subject for Mal and Inara and they're both perceptive enough to know that it might get ugly. Inara suddenly speaking up for love would be like an invite for Mal to turn the conversation on her own avoidance of it and Inara's too smart to set up herself like that.

Instead of making a stand for young love, Inara might take a different angle about, say, it being none of Mal's business because Simon and Kaylee are both adults.

Or, Mal might actually be pretty at peace with Simon/Kaylee, and just mess with both of them for laughs.

Or they could both come to the private, pessimistic agreement that foolishness must run its course. What if Inara herself isn't overtly optimistic about the longevity of Simon/Kaylee? But the two prove them wrong?

Many ways to liven up the basic idea of Mal and Inara talking about the subject of S/K. :)

As for cliches in general... ..discounting anything Mary-Sue related....

I would say anything that has Inara suddenly realizing that she doesn't like her job after all. Or having secretly hated it all along. That's just taking the easy way out for the writer.

Or post-"HoG" fics where any member of the crew tells Inara it's her duty to stay on the ship because her leaving makes Mal sad.

Or River reading their minds and telling either of them about the other's feelings.

But I LOVE the chivalry cliches! Mal giving Inara his coat to keep her warm? Total cliche but gets me every time.

Or the tea-in-the-galley-at-night cliche. Lovely set-up, even if everyone uses it.

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, June 9, 2007 3:12 AM

There is only one cliche that drives me nuts, no matter what the pairing, and that is the sappy happy ending. Most writers can get the chaos of the job and all close to right, but within the crew it's domestic bliss. True love and soulmates. Marriage and babies. Minor spats that end with rolls in the hay, if there's even conflict. Trouble hits the crew over and over, but they're all just fine, the strain doesn't show, and the love lives go swimmingly. Please! This is a Joss creation we're talking about, and very few of the relationships go smooth! And when they do go smooth, someone dies. I was reading the second visual companion, and a conversation with Joss was mentioned by one of the writers. They talked about Mal and Inara and how perfect it would be if they slept together, because then Mal would screw it up completely and it would make for really good drama. Yeah, that's right, some drama in the storytelling! How about that!
Most stories have the shiny-happy-perfect approach to the relationships onboard, and I do still read them, but I start to get kinda sick of that aspect.
Rant over.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

PLATONIST

Saturday, June 9, 2007 11:56 AM

Mal already screwed-up with the Nandi nighter, leaving them both confused and Inara fleeing for cover. Because those two keep getting it wrong, but that's what is so fun about their nonrelationship.

Love doesn't neccessary equal togetherness in the happily-ever-after kinda way, but it makes for great storytelling.

Together or apart, their little love dance IS the drama.

The same could be said for Simon and Kaylee. Someone is bound to get hurt there, I'm guessing Kaylee.

AGENTROUKA

Saturday, June 9, 2007 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
The same could be said for Simon and Kaylee. Someone is bound to get hurt there, I'm guessing Kaylee.

The dramatic beauty of Simon and Kaylee, to me, is that Kaylee really tends to hurt herself, using Simon as a projection surface.

That's a Simon/Kaylee cliche that kills me. The "Simon is a boob" thing. Because.. he really isn't.

That works as a really beautiful way of forcing Kaylee to grow up, either to turn into someone who can handle another person, or by growing stronger through the pain of it not working out.

AGENTROUKA

Saturday, June 9, 2007 12:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
They talked about Mal and Inara and how perfect it would be if they slept together, because then Mal would screw it up completely and it would make for really good drama. Yeah, that's right, some drama in the storytelling! How about that!

Good point!

People keep focusing on Inara's committment issues as an obstacle in their relationship, and often ignore Mal's own issues.

Sleeping with Nandi wasn't a screw-up in the true sense because he was, at the time, convinced Inara really never would want him. It was a comfort thing that led him to finding out the truth.

A real screw-up would probably have more to do with trust and acceptance issues. Accepting Inara as she is (Companion and all), trusting her to mean what she says (if she overcame her fear of saying what she means).

I can easily see Mal waiting for the inevitable end of their relationship even while in it, and ending up hurting Inara because of that expectation and the connected resentment.

Mal's got abandonment issues about as large as a minor moon.

NBZ

Saturday, June 9, 2007 2:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Mal already screwed-up with the Nandi nighter,

I would have to disagree with that.

I actually see that as part opf that same discussion between Joss and the other writers about Mal screwing up. What if it was Inara that did so? It's the twist used.

They are not in a relationship and do not owe each other anything.

Inara sleeps with people for a living and Mal has to put up with it. Mal sleeps with someone once and Inara decides to leave.

I do not see that as a mistake by Mal. He had no commitments to Inara. Even if he did, what with her job, they would not exactly be "exclusive".

What would you have him do? Keep his virtue waiting for Inara to eventually see the light?

/Sorry for the rant.

AGENTROUKA

Saturday, June 9, 2007 3:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Inara sleeps with people for a living and Mal has to put up with it. Mal sleeps with someone once and Inara decides to leave.

Mal's sleeping with Nandi was not the reason Inara left. It was a last push toward a decision she must have been contemplating for a long time.

Not to mention, Inara's job is a job. If she slept with an old friend of Mal's outside of a professional capacity, that'd be truly comparable. And I doubt Mal would have born that as well as he does her clients, which would have had the same level of rationality as Inara's tears.

If we insist on rationality, I mean. But there's a difference between rationally correct behavior and emotional entanglements, after all.

Mal hurts because Inara takes clients, Inara hurts because Mal slept with Nandi. It's not rational according to the perimeters of their relationship, but those are the emotional facts.

Their emotions take into account a more complex web than just the present status quo: the if's and maybe's.

Personal relationships navigate those irrational conditions and consequences, in order to avoid causing pain. That is why honesty is so important in complicated situations, and so difficult to do, because it exposes our own entanglements.

If Mal doesn't owe her anything, Inara can't be maligned for leaving, either, even if it breaks Mal's heart. Rationally sound. Emotionally, obviously, a minefield.

Quote:

I do not see that as a mistake by Mal. He had no commitments to Inara. Even if he did, what with her job, they would not exactly be "exclusive".

I don't think so. Her job is a job, after all. And a relationship would be separate from that. It'd be up to negotiation between the two, just like with any other couple.

Quote:

What would you have him do? Keep his virtue waiting for Inara to eventually see the light?

/Sorry for the rant.

If waiting for her to see the light is what he was doing, then... yes.

Sleeping with other people isn't waiting. It's moving forward with all options open. Different thing.

Just saying.

Not being with others signals a readiness and desire for committment. Sleeping with others doesn't, so it does make a difference in terms of "seeing the light" to the other person, really.

Mal was the one making relationship overtures, so his suddenly sleeping with Nandi - while ethically unquestionable - signaled a change in his stance to Inara. A stance she had enjoyed, even while not taking up on it, because it responded to her emotional desires. Loosing that offer of commitment hurts her, irrationally.

(What the relation between Mal's actual feelings and what it looked like to Inara was, is anyone's personal take.)

And if committment wasn't the issue between Mal and Inara, they would have had meaningless sex happily the moment they felt the need, methinks. So it's the irrational area that counts, not the rational one.

PLATONIST

Saturday, June 9, 2007 4:14 PM

I should rephrase!

Mal didn't intentionally hurt Inara by sleeping with Nandi.

He failed to recognize Inara's true feelings for him because he takes everything she says to him at face value. He can't look below the surface because of his insecurities and prejudgements.
He is just being human and so is she when she guards her feelings for Mal, stashing them away in the shuttle.

It's like in The Wizard of Oz when Toto unveils the Wizard as an old human man.

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