Privilege in the United States

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Saturday, July 26, 2025 06:23
VIEWED: 20076
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RIVER6213

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
This is what I have learned and seen in this culture and no one can tell me anything different.
And that sounds like a preconceived notions you’re protecting, not an actual assessment of society.

The media does frame the way we see things and the AfricanAmerican culture doesn’t always benefit the good names of the majority of AfricanAmericans in this country, but I think you’re taking it to a bit of a dramatic extreme that actually is a bit racist itself. It’s just as racist to claim that all white people are racist because they are white, which is essentially what you’re saying. That’s just as much an automatic assumption. I don’t know if that is a product of the drama or an actual sentiment, but from your stated unwillingness to hear any opposing opinions, it sounds like a sentiment to me.

Certainly the White culture benefits from its majority status, but whether or not a white person is viewed with a presumption of innocence depends a lot on whose doing the viewing. Contrary to the assumptions made about white people, racism is not a purely “white” phenomenon. And I would say that there is actually far less racism, on average, among white people then other ethnics groups in the US simply because White people are under the microscope, as it were, with regard to racism. AfricanAmerican culture gets away with blatantly racist statements, from musicians and activists, that would never be tolerated from white culture, because the assumption is, as absurd as it sounds, that black people can’t be racist.

So the story is not quite as one-sided as you portray it.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

Actually it is. The truth however painful it is is still the truth. I'm not going to mix it up with you regarding this. I'm right and I know it. Argue with someone else. I'll just read the comments and opinions and leave the maintaining of the power structure to you.

-River

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Actually it is. The truth however painful it is is still the truth. I'm not going to mix it up with you regarding this. I'm right and I know it.

Yep.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RUE

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 4:46 AM

A first, Finn himself agrees - white people have a higher level of privilege in the US: "Certainly the White culture benefits from its majority status".

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:47 AM

One quick note, in Re: gangsta rappers.

You have people who grew up in a hostile, immoral, aggressive, ruthless and downright LETHAL environment, and then act surprised when those who survive and make it good turn out to be hostile, aggressive, immoral and ruthless ?

When you have a harsh environment, you're gonna get harsh people - I think sixstringjack and myself are somewhat of an example of this even here.

And no, i'm not excusing it, especially disrespect of women - although in that environment most of the women you run into will exploit you just as fast if not faster than men, leading to some obvious ill will goin on there, just sayin that those perceptions are formented in a harsh cruicible of fire and tend to cling to a person long after they've climbed out.

Eminem is a good example of this, I respect the guy some even if I can't stand him, but I also pity him cause he cannot seem to overcome his youth and will probably be "damaged goods" for life - and I can see why, for I myself lived on 8mile as well, in a sleazy trailer park, till I made it good and moved to this freakin mayberry RFD town I live in now, seeing that environment from pointblank range will being it in loud and clear how and why those folks are so messed up when they finally do climb out - some wounds never heal, some ghosts never stop haunting you, and the high price of that climb is something you never, EVER forget.

Just sayin, not excusing - you wanna put an end to it, you have to *understand* it, these folks don't come out to be that way in a vacuum you know, environment plays a huge factor.

As for respect of society, societys front line of status quo defense is law enforcement, and consider their conduct in that I will defy you to find a single ghetto blaster with a positive opinion of em... there's a lotta factors, beyond just race, that apply in such things.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

LEADB

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
We have all been brain-washed.

But enough about making this issue all about black people. This topic is about White privilege and I have yet to see an answer to it let alone an actual discussion.

-River

First, let me say I agree with most of what you've said. It makes me very glad I don't watch most of the drivle put out by the media.

Not living in NYC, I cannot say I've seen any blatent racism in a fair while.

But you say this isn't what you were hoping to see discussed...However, I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to talk about white privilege -without- pulling in some points regarding how other races are treated.

I'm willing to grant some white privilege still exists (more than I'd prefer); and it is my opinion it is a matter which is improving over time. Having said that, it's not clear how I can discuss it more without getting into references to other races, how they perceived, etc.

Edit to add: I believe -most- of the "gansta rap" behavior / problem is not race based, but poverty based. As I mentioned above, in my area, I see a solid growth in middle/upper middle class amongst people of color; and as I said, these people are as decent as any other.

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FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:49 PM

These children do grow up in a violent environment, but many of them also grow up in this environment admiring the racist, hateful and violent lyrics of gangsta rappers and envying the wealth these idiot rappers blame on that lifestyle. As a result these children are predisposed to acting out that violence in their neighborhood, and thereby perpetuating it. We see the same thing among Palestinian children who are groomed to be violent. It’s not a question of understanding it. I understand it just fine. There’s never going to be an end to the crime of urban landscapes, but that doesn’t mean we should tolerate this exacerbating influences.

I have absolutely no respect or sympathy for Eminem. None. I couldn’t muster it if I tried. Why should I? Because he came from a poor neighborhood in Detroit? A lot of people come from poor neighborhoods all over, but unlike him they don’t rise out of the street by perpetuating this stereotype of hate that aggravates that very problem. What I find impressive are those that pull themselves off the street and do something meaningful with their lives. I had a friend who grew up not far from 8-mile; he lived in violent poverty just like everyone there. But he grew up and went to medical school, and is now an MD. Personally, I think we should be glamorizing his lifestyle. I think he is a much better example for poor inner-city youth to look up to, then some dickwad raping about faggots and hos.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:41 PM

Quote:
I had a friend who grew up not far from 8-mile; he lived in violent poverty just like everyone there. But he grew up and went to medical school, and is now an MD. Personally, I think we should be glamorizing his lifestyle.

Somebody pinch me, Finn finally said something I can fully agree with.

As for the rappers, I don't like what they do neither, but the truth is that whether we LIKE it or not, those thugs actually made it out - and that percentage is way bigger than the former idols, basketball players, considerin how far out of their reach that college scholarship is these days... they're the only ones reaching back in and throwing a life raft to these kids.

THAT is wrong, we need folks like your MD throwing these kids a rope too, knowledge is power, and I am part of a small group of former ghetto kids who does reach back in and find the toughest, strongest and smartest.. and throw em a rope, give em a chance to climb the wall, and no not all of em take it, but each one who does takes the Oath, and has to pull three more out behind him to break even with us.

The Church of Lost Children isn't big enough to make a real long-lasting social impact, but it sure beats doin nothin.

-Frem
PS. And no, for those who may have heard of it here and there - CoTL isn't an urban myth, it really does exist, but never, ever, ever in an official capacity, because there's more to it than that, and you can't crush a fistfull of smoke.

LEADB

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:52 PM

What these two folks said /\.

RIVER6213

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
We have all been brain-washed.

But enough about making this issue all about black people. This topic is about White privilege and I have yet to see an answer to it let alone an actual discussion.

-River

First, let me say I agree with most of what you've said. It makes me very glad I don't watch most of the drivle put out by the media.

But you say this isn't what you were hoping to see discussed...However, I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to talk about white privilege -without- pulling in some points regarding how other races are treated.

Very true, but I have seen from the past in topics like this people seem to get hung up on discussing the treatment of other races that are not white here in the USA, and if it continues people start to get defensive, and start acting like someone is blaming them for something. I just thought I would point out what the topic title was as a reminder that its about White Privilege. I myself sort of see white privilege as an unspoken, original Affirmative Action without all the nasty business of having it actually be a law in the books. We who are white benefit from this in big and small ways everyday.

Also, a lot of whites have difficulty in discussing this subject because we never really had to think about it, where as many people of color see it around them all the time. They may tell you that it doesn't exist too your face, but they know it's there and they see it. Mind you that this sort of nonesense is repeated in other countries so relax, we aren't the only ones who makes assumptions about our own value. If this were China or Germany, or Africa, and you just happened to be a minority living there you would see the majority people being treated with a certain privilege that won't be, or grudgingly be extended to you. And the fun part is those very same people who are part of the majority, most of them won't be aware that they are crusing about in their life protected in some cases by a form of social Affirmative Action.

In the United States before the Affirmative Action of the 60s came into being, there was the original Affirmative Action meaning for white males only, and the reason for that is because human beings don't know how to share power, or behave themselves, which is why these laws have to be put in place.

Oh, well. With that said I'm going to go back to work.

Have a nice day.

-River

RUE

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:13 PM

Thanks River.

I think most white people never realize how much they get just by being white. I think it would be educational for people to be made up as Black or Hispanic for a week, and try to get an apartment, a job, a car.

There was a study a LONG time ago published by US News and World Report. It compared education level to job level and found that a Black male needed 'some college' to get the same job as a White male with a 8th grade education. Their conclusion ? Education is the key to Blacks improving their lives !

The blinders the more privildged have are still on.

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