#2 Ponders Anakin versus River - who would win
POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Friday, April 20, 2007 00:44
VIEWED: 12873
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My last post was in response to Zoids last one. I thought I had quoted it but I quess my sidekick messed up or something.
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Ok Jedi arn't like Neo in the Matrix. The force is't about outright alteration of "reality."
Moving things takes an amount of concentration. Thats how Yoda got distracted with stopping the pillar falling. Jedi couldn't just stop a field of bullets. As someone said above many were killed by overwhelming firepower.
Also they don't deflect blaster bolts by eye; they use the force to feel where the bolts are going to be. Remember Luke blindfolded when he was first learning it.
Can't say river would win for sure and depends at what stage in the story each of them are. But here is something to consider.
Whineakin vs. Obi-Wan -> Obi-Wan
Obi-Wan vs. Jenga Fett -> stalemate
Jenga Fett vs. River -> River
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Jango Fett vs. Mace Windu->Mace Windu
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As much of a whiney little pissant that Anakin is, he's still a Jedi. Padawan or full blown Jedi he has The Force behind him. As Number2 wrote, what use are guns or River's (so called) psychic power (it's been implied she has it by Mal and the others, and that may well be, but to the length and strength of The Force?) I know most of the answers have been biased towards River because, well let's face it this is a Firefly fan site, if this were a Star Wars fansite hardly anyone (if at all) would be rooting for River. But as much as I like her character better than Anakin (hell who but Amadala could like that whiner?) The Force and the extensive training he's had makes him far more likely to win.
Now having said that, and seeing her defeat an entire room full of creatures that would make even Obi Wan soil his robe, with only a pair of cutting weapons, if she got her hands on a Light Saber..... then I'd say GAME ON! BUT, little orphan Anie
would still have the upperhand with The Force. Just.
Now if it were Luke...... pooor poor little River. Unlike his father Luke DID manage to fullfill his destiny as a Jedi and not dissapoint. Hell, maybe he'd just drop his saber, grab her face, probe her mind and clear that rattled little brain of hers.
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"We can be Heroes.... if just for one day."[/]
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What do you mean I have to wait
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I think Anakin would win, because he is Darth Vader.
"Sorry About The Mess."
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Quote:
Originally posted by tefft1ra:
Ok Jedi arn't like Neo in the Matrix. The force is't about outright alteration of "reality."
Moving things takes an amount of concentration. Thats how Yoda got distracted with stopping the pillar falling. Jedi couldn't just stop a field of bullets. As someone said above many were killed by overwhelming firepower.
Also they don't deflect blaster bolts by eye; they use the force to feel where the bolts are going to be. Remember Luke blindfolded when he was first learning it.
Can't say river would win for sure and depends at what stage in the story each of them are. But here is something to consider.
Whineakin vs. Obi-Wan -> Obi-Wan
Obi-Wan vs. Jenga Fett -> stalemate
Jenga Fett vs. River -> River
It takes some amount of concentration, but Vader had a multitude of objects flying around in Empire. He seems to have plenty of concentration and brute force going for him. A force push effect could send bullets flying right back at River if he wanted.
Vader also had the power to absorb blaster shots in Empire. If blaster shots are just energy then Einstein says Vader can absorb bullets if he wants. e = mc^2
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But we're not talking about Vader, we're talking about Anakin when he was a little pussy. I think that it all depends on the setting and circumstances of the fight. If you think about it, a lightsaber would not be able to deflect bullets (if you really think about it, this fight would never happen since neither of them exist and neither do the Star Wars form of lightsabers). They are metal, and not concentrated beams of light. They are matter and have mass. They would melt in the lightsaber, but then the molten metal would still come out of the other side. For Anakin, not full fledged Vader, the force would take a lot more effort and if you think that at closer ranges he can stop 30 rounds (say River has two MP-5A5s, 30 round magazines each, a cyclic fire rate of 800 rounds per minute, 15 rounds from each gun in just over a second, each bullet traveling at roughly 1100 feet per second) with the force instantaneously then you're completely overestimating his abilities. And Jedis have incredible reflexes, but someone of Anakin's size, agility (whole body, not just with his arms and hands), and temperment/mentality wouldn't be able to dodge those 30 rounds. And River's mental capabilites would allow her to read his every move easily. It wouldn't be a hands down match in any situation, but I think that in more cases River would prevail (barely, just barely) because she's more intelligent, a psychic, and more versatile (weaponry, tactics, etc.). And if someone like Anakin has a massive minichlorian (however it's spelled) count, then odds are that River, a psychic, has a relatively high count. Since she could read Anakin's mind and has always possessed an innate ability to absorb, learn, reproduce, and improvise the actions related to any task she'd probably have at least the tiniest level of profiency with the force after the start of the fight. At Anakin's level in the last 2 movies (meaning the newest two), the level where he was a complete little bitch, it would be a very close match but River would most likely come out on top in most scenarios. There are definitely some scenarios where he'd kick the crap out of River, but in most he wouldn't. She'd very easily be able to out think him, manipulate him, and out maneuver him. Plus with the right kinds of weapons in closer ranges she would be able to employ overpowering, or very close to overpowering firepower. And once Anakin was Vader he absorbed ENERGY, a concentrated beam of photons, not something that has mass. When Luke knocked Vader down in the final movie and started hacking wildly at Vader's lightsaber, then cut off Vader's hand, Vader rested against the railing. He didn't just absorb it. That's because it had mass, it was actual substance. A high volume of bullets being fired at Anakin would shred him. He may be able to slow a few down with his lightsaber, and maybe not get scalded by the molten metal flying out the other side, but he wouldn't be able to concentrate hard enough fast enough to use the force on any of the rounds speeding at him (let's - just for fun - say now that she has an AKS-47 in each hand, with added on custom built compensators to dramatically reduce recoil and barrel climb and 75 round drum magazines on each, this fires a 7.62mmx39mm round that travels at roughly 2300 fps and strikes with approx. 1400 ft/lb of force - I can think of other weapons that would be much more suitable for this kind of gunfight, but an AK-47 is a gun that everyone can relate to). He'd be torn to pieces. And he'd be too focused on trying to evade the at least 50 rounds flying at him from 15-25 feet away at 2300 fps to pull the guns from her hands using the force. If she didn't get any firearms, or ones with a much lower rate of fire or smaller caliber ammunition, he'd rip her apart. As I said, it all depends on the situation. Her mental capabilities far exceed his, as well as her versatility and ranged options, but his physical prowess in melee and power in slightly slower forms of combat (slower meaning he'd have time to concentrate on an effective force attack, her
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Quote:
Originally posted by OHSM333:
And I'm confused. How Einstein's work in the theory of relativity says that Darth Vader can absorb solid mass? The law of conservation of mass states that mass cannot be created nor destroyed. As is the same for the law of conservation of energy, but that would make sense if he absorbed the blaster shots into himself and his body stored the energy. Not a solid bullet. He didn't absorb Han Solo's gun when he Forced that over to himself. Vader's Force powers don't just eat up metal into what was left of his body. I can see it now, though...
Einstein is saying that matter is inherently another form of energy. It wouldn't be destroyed anyway. The energy that is absorbed is released in force powers. So, he'd just absorb the bullets and have a massive build up of power that he'd unleash as a huge force push or force lightning or something.
I hardly see the argument about Anakin standing there and waiting for River to fire some AK-47s at him as a valid argument for why she'd win. It's like saying "well if River waits for Anakin's lightsaber swing to be 1 cm from her torso there's no way she can win". Jedi have great reaction time as seen by them blocking lasers. Freaking lasers! They move at the speed of light. If a Jedi can block those then a bullet is like a snail trying to run them down.
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This discussion has become really well
"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs
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