Vermont votes to impeach
POSTED BY: Dayve
UPDATED: Friday, March 9, 2007 02:42
VIEWED: 5496
PAGE 5 of 9
Quote:Anyone with a sixth grade reading level could see that you're spinning here.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nope, sorry. There's no evidence to that point, and in fact, there's multiple findings to the contrary.
The actions this administration have taken during war are far less intrusive and more in the open than FDR during WW2 or Lincoln during TWBTS.
Fact is, the U.S. has exceeded it's responsibility w/ regards to the Geneva convention rules, and there's no evidence of torture of its non uniformed combatents.
Don't know the specifics of this case, but while there 'may' be some merrit to this, it's ridiculous to hold the President and VP accountable for this sort of case.
While it may be wrong to say that Bush knew that he telling lies, it's also equally wrong to say he was acting in good faith by passing on questionable or speculative or incomplete intel.
Just like those that support the idea that Bush is pure evil, you're seeing what you want to see based on the facts.
Rant over; you can go back to listening to Rush Limbo and the Coulter-geist now.
P.S., My idol is O. J. Simpson- there's no conclusive proof he did any wrong, just hours of footage demonstrating that he was the best player in the history of football; the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise Chrisisall
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Originally posted by AURaptor, I think, since he messed up the quote feature, but he's arguing against the original post:Quote:
Fact is, the U.S. has exceeded it's responsibility w/ regards to the Geneva convention rules, and there's no evidence of torture of its non uniformed combatents.
Nobody has claimed that anybody was torturing non uniformed "combatents" from the U. S.
Or maybe you're a victim of public school education, and don't understand English well enough to know how to use the posessive.
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Oh Vermont...well it fugures...right? There are about 24 people living in that state, all either pot-smoking ex-hippies, or ex-draft dodgers....and they certainly have a proud history of things they've "voted" for :
Voted to ban the Easter Bunny & Santa Claus
Voted to have maple syrup replace gold as our monetary standard
Voted to secede from the Union and call their new country Assholia.
Voted to remove crosses from every church.
Voted to make Maui Wowie the official state flower.
Voted to give condoms to fetuses
Voted to declare Howard Dean's brain a waste management area
Voted to make Pat Buchannan the winner in their primary & Presidential front-runner
Voted to declare Star Wars...Revenge of the Sith the greatest movie of all time
Voted to authorize a Britney Spears appreciation day.
Voted to decide when their next vote would be
and a zillion other meaningless, fu**ed-up votes over the years....oh, you thilly state!
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Just for the record: wow, it's getting nasty in here. And from people from whom I expect more. boy, oh, boy.
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
While it may be wrong to say that Bush knew that he telling lies, it's also equally wrong to say he was acting in good faith by passing on questionable or speculative or incomplete intel.
So, philosophical question of the day: is it lying if you don't know that you're telling an untruth? It seems like the following are necessary conditions for something to be considered lying: 1) one knows the truth; 2) one tells a distruth; 3) one has the intent to deceive. So, for instance, Al Gore wasn't lying when he said, "We know that [ Hussein ] has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." He was telling an untruth, but not knowingly, and not with the intent to deceive, so (via modus ponens, for all you logic fans out there) Al Gore wasn't lying. The question is, which statements of W's lack one of the necessary conditions for lying? As mentioned above, I saw oodles and stacks of intel (even from before his time) that said Iraq had the goods. Now, if he based his statements on bad intel, but intel he believed to be accurate, that's not lying (in virtue of the fact that it lacks necessary conditions #1 and #3). Now, I have little doubt that there were some instances of out-and-out lying. But I'd be willing to bet that in the main, he was just as surprised as the rest of us (and doesn't that make you feel good? You still get to think of him as a moron, if not as a lying scumbag).
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Editted to add: you might want to crucify me for what seems to be a defense of Bush, but I assure you: I don't like Bush. At the same time, however, I think that the global assertion that Bush lied in every particular is simply a naive attempt to paint Bush in the worst light possible.
Re-edit: "Bush manipulated" I'll agree to, but I think that "Bush lied" is too simplistic to accurately describe what happened.
Re-re-edit: for those of you who don't have experience working with intelligence data, let me just inject this into the discussion: there is not such thing as absolute certainty in intel. Nope. None. So Sorry. Even when I was convinced of something, my assessment was that "almost certainly" something was the case. Never, no never, no certainty in intel.
________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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ShinyEd,
You know, I looked up the claims you made about Vertmonters.
--------------------
"Voted to ban the Easter Bunny & Santa Claus
Voted to have maple syrup replace gold as our monetary standard
Voted to secede from the Union and call their new country Assholia.
Voted to remove crosses from every church.
Voted to make Maui Wowie the official state flower.
Voted to give condoms to fetuses
Voted to declare Howard Dean's brain a waste management area
Voted to make Pat Buchannan the winner in their primary & Presidential front-runner
Voted to declare Star Wars...Revenge of the Sith the greatest movie of all time
Voted to authorize a Britney Spears appreciation day.
Voted to decide when their next vote would be
and a zillion other meaningless, fu**ed-up votes over the years....oh, you thilly state!"
---------------------
Not one panned out as genuine. So could you provide links for them? Just so we know you have a point to make and are not as much of an ass-hole as you appear.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You know, I looked up the claims you made about Vertmonters.
Not one panned out as genuine. So could you provide links for them? Just so we know you have a point to make and are not as much of an ass-hole as you appear
You looked up the claims I made?....lol!...Who's the asshole here, asshole?
And...just for the record, asshole...some of them are really true asshole..not that liberal assholes like you can discriminate between fact, fiction, sarcasm, etc etc ...ONCE AGAIN, asshole...you've proven yer frikkin asshole clueless without your asshole links.....ps. Where exactly, asshole did you attempt to verify my asshole claims?...any asshole chance you looked up George Soro's asshole?...or perhaps Al Gore's asshole?
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Quote:My son wanted to go to the local toy store for a special toy the other night. It was after 7:00pm, and I asked him if he was sure it was still open. He stated in no uncertain language that it was definitly open! I called ahead, instead of just rushing out, and found it closed at 6:00pm.
Originally posted by Causal:
So, philosophical question of the day: is it lying if you don't know that you're telling an untruth?
Was my son lying?
In his experience, that store was certainly open into the dark hours. But he had no cause to be so definite in his assertion that it WAS open at that particular late hour, other than his juvinile need for immediate gratification.
Let's just say he was being overzealous.
In light of this example, was Bush lying?
Yes.
Why?
He's not an eight-year-old. And Iraq is not a toy.
Do not attempt to apply logic to this administration Chrisisall
P.S. I wouldn't want to see AURaptor crusified, much less you, Causal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Just for the record: wow, it's getting nasty in here. And from people from whom I expect more. boy, oh, boy.
Quote:
...ONCE AGAIN, asshole...you've proven yer frikkin asshole clueless without your asshole links.
You're right Chrisisall
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Yes, I did look up your claims. I used google and couldn't find anything on even the most plausible - the first two. So if indeed they were true they didn't make a big a splash 'cause even google didn't come up with sites.
And how does that make me an asshole? Just wondering. Your post seemed like flamebait so I thought I'd try to figure it out. As it turned out, it WAS flamebait and, well, since you posted it that makes you the ass-hole. IMHO
BTW, are YOU touchy about YOUR ass-hole? It seems like a sore spot.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Just for the record: wow, it's getting nasty in here. And from people from whom I expect more. boy, oh, boy.Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Not one panned out as genuine. So could you provide links for them? Just so we know you have a point to make and are not as much of an ass-hole as you appear.
You're right Chrisisall.
Missed the first case there Chris.
Posting to stir stuff up.
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