Kind of wish I hadn't watched Angel (SPOILER)...

POSTED BY: altaira
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:52
VIEWED: 8885
PAGE 3 of 4

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE

JWHEDONADDICT

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 1:52 AM

Serenityin Scotland is right. That's how the season would have ended no matter what. The only thing (according to Jeff Bell and Joss, I think) that happened because of the cancellation was Wes's death.

As much as I hated that Wesley (and Cordy, Fred and Lindsey) had to die, I still wouldn't give up having known them...for anything. And I still would've gotten attached...that I pretty much feel I had no choice in!

LEXAN

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 5:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

What's strange about it all is that except for Firefly the rest of the shows are technically kiddy shows. What I'm wondering is why do these shows have such a profound effect on my psyche? Why do I keep watching them over and over again? Who knows?

-River

Buffy and (especially) Angel are not kiddy shows. Why do you think this? Buffy may have a silly name but this is more a reflection of its ability to not take itself too seriously and treat the stories and issues it addresses with cheek than its childishness. Some people don't take Buffy seriously because it has a name that is seemingly more suitable for a soft toy and revolves around vampires and mysticism but this, as everyone here should know, is a misconception. I don't see how you can knowledgably say that Buffy is more of kiddy show than Firefly, which does address more mature themes but this is because it portraying a different stage of life. Buffy portrays the 'growing up' stage of life but it did more than enough during its seven year run to demonstrate that it is suitable viewing for all ages, though it is dependant on how perceptive the person is, regardless of age.

Do you think Angel is a kiddy show because it is also fantasy? I can sort of see why you think Buffy is childish but I thought Angel would never be distinguished as such.

JWHEDONADDICT

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:11 PM

Somehow I missed the "kiddy show" reference the first time around. It dissappoints me to have any fellow Joss fan feel this way.

Sure, BUFFY the series was technically a metaphor for growing up, I'll grant you that, but to reduce it, and especially ANGEL, to the level of, say, FULL HOUSE or CHARMED, is pretty insulting.

RIVER6213

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 5:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
Somehow I missed the "kiddy show" reference the first time around. It dissappoints me to have any fellow Joss fan feel this way.

Sure, BUFFY the series was technically a metaphor for growing up, I'll grant you that, but to reduce it, and especially ANGEL, to the level of, say, FULL HOUSE or CHARMED, is pretty insulting.

LoL!
"Full house or Charmed" is no where near the quality of BtVS or Angel. Don't get me wrong on this. BtVS and Angel are good shows in their own right, but they are shows that a person has to experience in order to see them as good shows; it takes time.

The 1st and maybe even the second season of BtVS comes off as rather "Kiddy" in nature, but from the 3rd season on the show takes on a more serious adult theme, and by the 5th and 6th season one finds themselves totally immersed in the BtVS universe to the point of complete soap opera frenzy. Put simply, BtVS got better which each season, but you have to admit that season 1 and 2 where pretty much tiny-bopper shows. I admit that 1 & 2 are good shows, but they are in no way compare to the drama of the rest of the seasons; I'm sure you understand that.

The show Angel took some time in finding its way, but in the end it did establish itself as a good show. It was too bad that it ended the way it did. It was a show of complete lost potential. All those undeveloped characters having to meet an end that was unbecoming of them; a pointless last stand…give me a break! What a waste if you ask me.

So what has Joss done lately???

-River

JWHEDONADDICT

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 6:46 AM

The only way I could see your point is if someone were to watch eps. like "The Witch" and "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" and make judgements based on them alone. In that sense, I could agree that it could appear like SABRINA THE TEENAGE WITCH as a drama.

However, the opening scene in the pilot episode featured an ex-student being murdered by a vampire. Later on, one of the first characters we are supposed to care about (Jesse) is murdered, turned into a vampire, and gets dusted. Buffy's first love even turns out to be a vampire (formerly the most evil vamp ever), and in the next season, goes on a killing spree after having sex with her. I honestly do not see how a show that regularly features things of this nature could be considered "kiddy" or "teeny-bopper"...EVER.

By the way, it's been confirmed that there will a canon-Season 6 story for ANGEL in comic form, so we will find out what happened to the characters. The series finale was not originally intended as such (the ratings had been higher than ever when it was abruptly cancelled). Joss decided not to change his original intended ending for the season when he found out it had been cancelled. Some things were to have been explained in tv movies, but they never happened...it wasn't his fault.

Joss parted from the Wonder Woman project and is also working on GONERS, his next movie.

JWHEDONADDICT

Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:02 AM

And a (typical)'kiddy' show might occasionally tug at your heartstrings, but it will NOT make you think, invade your dreams, or inspire worship of it's Creator!

LEXAN

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
BtVS and Angel are good shows in their own right, but they are shows that a person has to experience in order to see them as good shows; it takes time.

The 1st and maybe even the second season of BtVS comes off as rather "Kiddy" in nature, but from the 3rd season on the show takes on a more serious adult theme, and by the 5th and 6th season one finds themselves totally immersed in the BtVS universe to the point of complete soap opera frenzy. Put simply, BtVS got better which each season, but you have to admit that season 1 and 2 where pretty much tiny-bopper shows. I admit that 1 & 2 are good shows, but they are in no way compare to the drama of the rest of the seasons; I'm sure you understand that.

I disagree. I think if one saw a really high-quality, or even high average, episode of BtVS or Angel one would immediately understand why it so good, unless they are one of those people who just doesn’t get it. These people, however, are rare.

When you say the show got better with each season, do you actually mean literally? As in the best starts from 7 and then goes 654321? Interesting… I actually think season two touched on more mature themes than most of the other seasons and also conveyed a deeper and more applicable meaning.

Season one, I will agree, seems to appeal to a more teenage and below age group but wouldn’t say it is for ‘tiny-boppers’ as you said. The show was aiming for that age group when it first aired but when Joss knew it was successful it quickly progressed to something more.

JWHEDONADDICT

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:00 PM

Still, I can't see how Joss was aiming completely for that age group.

I'm not trying to look down on that age group exactly, but there are some key things that made it also mature enough to not alienate older viewers, the ones not put off by the movie, the title or the ages of the characters. Remember the murders? Plus, why hire 30 year olds (some who pretty much look it--not that that's a bad thing) to play teens when there are talented actors out there who are actually teens? Because Joss didn't want to hire just any pretty actor/ress. He wanted the cast to be right for the parts. He didn't just want teens and tweens to watch, he wanted these characters to matter...to anyone and everyone who could relate to them--even if it had been quite a few years since they were in high school.

MAVOURNEEN

Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:11 PM

I cry every time I see the last episode...the scene with Illyria/Fred and Wesley

"Would you like me to lie to you now?"

Give me the shivers.
Love Angel, Love Firefly, Like (a lot) Buffy.

------------------------------------------------

JWHEDONADDICT

Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:03 PM

Me too. Especially knowing that the decision to kill Wes was made only after the show was cancelled. Meaning neither were 'supposed' to happen.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE