Kind of wish I hadn't watched Angel (SPOILER)...

POSTED BY: altaira
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:52
VIEWED: 8885
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LEXAN

Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by altaira:

I loved Firefly. (Well, except for River.) ... What is it with Joss and uber-annoying, shrill females???)

River was the most brilliant and not annoying character Joss ever created...

If you were talking about Kaylee however...

GLADIATOR32

Saturday, March 3, 2007 6:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lexan:
River was the most brilliant and not annoying character Joss ever created...

Agreed. My favourite Firefly character, hell my favourite Joss character, by a country mile

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CYBERSNARK

Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
They mostly lived.

As the comics have confirmed AFAIK (my local comic shop sucks out loud, so I have to order things online, and have yet to be able to read a complete arc [I get some volumes, then everyone seems to skip an issue. Still looking for volume five of Spike: Asylum]).

BTW, everybody should read Spike: Asylum. It has Lorne in it, and he sings "The Ballad of Serenity" and comments that it's got a good message. Don't let anyone take the sky from you.

Yes. Lorne is a Browncoat.

Also: demons seeking counselling. Can't possibly be unfunny.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

JWHEDONADDICT

Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:50 PM

You're where I was when it first aired. The idea of the characters "going out fighting" was at first really hard to take because I wanted desperately to know what happened to everyone. Still do desperately want that, but after a while it got easier, though, when I realized how fitting it was for the series and the characters. You'll get there, too, believe me. It just takes time.

ALTAIRA

Sunday, March 4, 2007 5:30 PM

I appreciate everyones' input.

I haven't read any of the comics, or the fiction or any comments from Joss. So, I'm just going by the last scene of the last episode. All the characters had lost so much. Angel had signed away his chance for a soul. He'd lost his dream of Buffy, Cordy was dead and Connor wanted to live with his normal family. Angel seemd like he just wanted to be dusted.

Gunn was seriously wounded already and didn't look like he would last too long. Ilyria hated humanity and had lost the ony person who mattered to her (Wes). Spike seemd fed up, too. Lorne lived, but ended up a broken man.

Like they all given up and wanted to die. It seemed utterly sad and hopeless. Why go out when they could have continued to do good?

I agree that with minimal expenditure and a little tweaking in the editing, it might not have seemed so bleak. Perhaps pulling away from above and showing the sun coming up on an Earth that had been saved again (at least temporarily.)

Is there a commentary on the last episode? Would it make me feel better or WORSE to listen to it?

(Sorry to be so down, the ending just left me empty.)

DEWRASTLER

Sunday, March 4, 2007 7:58 PM

They all didn't want to die, but they were willing to. A hero's life isn't all its cracked up to be in some fantasy worlds. Thats one thing that makes Angel special and unique (even though I'll argue that Spiderman is a good example of this also).

To be a hero you have to sacrifice everything that you want. You put what you have on the line so that others can have what they want in life. It should be expected that a hero has losses in their life. In "Not Fade Away" the Angel team only had one thing left to give, and that was themselves. They were not going to simply continue going through the motions of being a hero. They were going to step up to the plate and swing for the fence. That takes sacrifice.

A hero must brave the dark so that others can live peacefully in the light.

Is that bleak, some may think so. I prefer to believe that there are people willing to make these type of sacrifices, not for atonment or glory but because it is the right thing to do.

Angel and crew's lfe revolved around helping the helpless. Fighting for those who can't protect themselves. Thats why it was fitting for the last scened to be the crew fighting. And we don't see the end because this is a never ending fight. A sunrise over the city only lasts a moment, and then the struggle must continue. Thats the message of "Not Fade Away".

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People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.

RIVER6213

Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by altaira:
I am very late to the JossVerse. I found Firefly, then Buffy and then, of course, HAD to watch Angel. I had only seen a few episodes of Buffy and Angel on TV, so it was mostly new to me.

I loved Firefly. (Well, except for River.) I loved Buffy. (Well, except for Dawn.) and I thought Angel was good, bordering on great. (Well, except for Fred. What is it with Joss and uber-annoying, shrill females???)

The last episode of Angel was so damn bleak, it made the whole journey seem pointless. It's like Angel and what was left of his crew had a death wish and didn't want to live anymore. One last fight. All die. All a waste.

Bleeeccchhhhh! I'm still depressed a week later!

I agree with you totally about the last episode of Angel, but I also believe that things went totally down hill once Angel and company took over Wolfram & Hart. Things just kept getting worse and worse, and poor Fred got the worst of it all. I liked the Fred character a lot. She was funny, delicate and smart. She was a very courageous and lovable person. The way in which she died was awful, but to find out that her soul was destroyed completely made me seriously question why does Joss like to take things that people love away from them? It's a theme I see throughout all of the works he's done. Someone must have taken away something that he cared about in his life and it hurt him to the point where it became a theme in all of his shows.

The good part was that the Illyria character in its own way made up for the loss of Fred. Illyria was a good character worthy of development. Too bad that didn't happen.

The ending of Angel was a complete waste of lives for me; a complete waste of lives for no real reason. Great! so they get to show the senior partners that they can slow them down for a few seconds...so fucking what!!!? The ending was the way it was because the show got canceled and they wanted to show our heroes making a final stand. It was a stupid ending, and I don't care what anyone says. It is an ending that can be interpreted in many ways and no one interpretation is the right way, so spare me the argument regarding this.

The whole Journey of Angel the show was a pointless affair.

-River

JWHEDONADDICT

Sunday, March 11, 2007 12:24 PM

No argue, you're entitled to your opinion, as I'm entitled to mine.

I have battled severe depression for most of my life, and there were, at the very least, a couple of scenes/lines (specifically in Season 2 & 5) that saved me.

I will NEVER view the show as pointless, no matter the ending.

RIVER6213

Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
No argue, you're entitled to your opinion, as I'm entitled to mine.

I have battled severe depression for most of my life, and there were, at the very least, a couple of scenes/lines (specifically in Season 2 & 5) that saved me.

I will NEVER view the show as pointless, no matter the ending.

Don't get me wrong. After I finished the last episode of Angel I went back and started watching season 1 through 5 all over again. I did find most of it enjoyable which is why I purchased the DVDs in the 1st place, but it was the last two DVDs that really brought me down and made me think that the whole journey was for nothing. Also, I to suffer from depression, and a type II bipolar which I just found out about, so I am taking a boat load of medication to counter this, so trust me...you are not alone in this. Go figure.

Firefly, Angel, and BtVS are shows that kept me; keeps me somewhat sane with its entertaining stories of heroes, heroines and champions and their fight against evil. These shows fire my imagination and keeps me interested in things if that makes any sense. What's strange about it all is that except for Firefly the rest of the shows are technically kiddy shows. What I'm wondering is why do these shows have such a profound effect on my psyche? Why do I keep watching them over and over again? Who knows?

The last two DVDs of Angel was entertaining but made the whole journey rather pointless and I don't like that. The last episode of BtVS we got to watch our heroes standing on the lip of a crater that once was Sunnydale and the hellmouth. We got to listen to dramatic music as the camera slowly zoomed into the collection of surviving heroes with the final zooming in on Buffy's face. We got to see the smile of satisfaction and completion form on her face; a look that said a job well done. We didn't get this with Angel. We got to see our heroes totally outnumbered, and I'm certain they all died. I heard that some of them survived but since there is no show showing this, I will just have to take the last episode for what it was...a final stand.

I wish Joss would come up with another television series. That guy's writing can seriously drag the most cynical person into his stories which is a skill if you ask me, but one thing I totally hate about him is that he seems to get off completely with the destruction of very much loved characters; this is a problem, and seems to be a theme throughout everything I have watched that he created. My saying is that if Joss creates a show with good characters...don't get attached to them because they will just end up dead.

Go figure...

-River

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:19 PM

River, I'm pretty sure that NFA was written before they knew the show was going to be cancelled. I think that's how Joss always planned to end season 5.

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