A debate about debates
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 22:13
VIEWED: 12983
PAGE 16 of 17
"You may not want to talk about molecules like prions, viruses, or opsins; or simple forms of life like bacteria. But they show how change occurs"
Now you are being evasive. I am posting about species evolution, a species becoming another, with an entirely different chromosomal count. You have not given any scientific proof that this is possible(never mind plausible). Focusing on segmental changes and tiny genetic variations while glossing over how rare, non-positive, and non-reproductive they are in complex organisms, all while using that as proof of evolution(not adaption or natural selection) is facetious at best. So, what I think you are really saying is: I can't give any actual scientific proof for evolution, I can't debate the statistical probabilities involved, therefore I must call kaneman a troll
. Only problem is most on this board would agree that I am a troll. What does that have to do with your inability to pad your opinion with scientific proof and statistical probabilities? Or your ability to stay on topic and not be purposefully evasive?
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Quote:That's right, we are, which is how we know that Natural Selection was the mechanism put forward by Darwin to explain how Micro Evolution (note the Evolution word there) worked, which is the simple facet you seem to miss even when it's pointed out to you too the point of beating it around your head numerous times
Originally posted by kaneman:
I do not confuse natural selection and adaption with evolution, it is an error many a man makes. But you, genius, are smarter than that. Thank god
.Quote:You are talking to yourself again, better see to that.
Only problem is most on this board would agree that I am a troll. What does that have to do with your inability to pad your opinion with scientific proof and statistical probabilities? Or your ability to stay on topic and not be purposefully evasive?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Citz,
Sushhhhh!
Just when I was thinking better of you. What do I get? A Shitizen sighting. Complete with a well thought out post full of hostility, ridicule, and belittling hatred. God I have missed you. Where have you been, you degenerate? Still frequent the local gay bar? I can see you haven't forgotten how to talk out of your a*s. I find it to be an amazing talent you posses. How do the four fingers you keep in your as*hole not get in the way? Truly amazing...Truly......
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Good to hear you missed me sweetheart, but as I keep telling you, all the wishful thinking in the world ain't gonna make me gay, I'm sorry, but I just don't think of you that way.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Please don't feed the trolls.
---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Good to hear you missed me sweetheart, but as I keep telling you, all the wishful thinking in the world ain't gonna make me gay, I'm sorry, but I just don't think of you that way.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Please don't feed the trolls.
I try not to but Citz keeps responding to me. I find it hard to ignore him.NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey Citizen,
glad to see you around and humorous as always !
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
You are talking to yourself again, better see to that.
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Quote:
Signym: Religion doesn't belong in a scientific debate.
Absolutely. And the same is true vice versa. People out there have used the science of archaeology to proof that the ten commandments we have are not the ones which came down from the mountain, because various hebrew kings appended things to the commandments. And you could say to someone "I don't follow these commandments, and here's why" but you can't say "You can't follow these commandments because they aren't exactly moses', because science says so, so the religion *must* change." Because religion doesn't work like that. Science does, sure. And if it were a science, it would have to chance, and now the historical sciences will record that moses' tablets were later appended, but religion works as a mass psychology thing, the people collectively believe those rules are the will of god, so those are the rules, and science's position that they change is less important.
Quote:
Antimason: but to say that religion doesnt belong in any debate is just biased and unfair.
No one is saying this. This is the sixth time I've said this. I just can't help but feel that the religious are not listening intentionally, to fulfill some fantasy to perpetuate the situation.
Religion is free to say we have a religious belief that the creator created this. They are not free to say "our faith is not a religion but it is a science which competely openly on a level field with evolution" which is what ID creationism says.
And no, it is not. It's not a science, and it does not compete with evolution, science does not work like that. One is scientific undisputed fact, with a zero point zero percent chance of being overturned (please face this fact). The other is a cockamamie fantasy constructed by people who really have nothing to do with jesus, and is in no way necessary for your religion to be correct. There shouldn't even be a conflict between the two.
I notice the concession you're looking for, but the anti-evolution position is not a bargaining chip. It has no value at all, in any way.
If you want to build an argument for your theologic position, do so on its merits.
As a religious person, I do enter into that debate, and also as a historian.
Antimason, if you say "all gods are fallen angels according to my religion" then I don't argue. But when you say "all religions are a warped form of my religion," which you have said before, then I argue because that is factually incorrect, because religions spread across the earth as a historical fact. the egyption faith, the mayan faith and hinduism all predate your faith. Moses came down from the mountain in 1440BC and before that, there was no judaism. The borrowing by moses of the sumerian creation myth, and re-attributing that creation to yhwh proves no union or continuity. You're belief that yhwh is the creator is descended from that belief, first believed by moses in 1440bc, and no earlier.
Furthermore: There is no historical link the shows an out-of-israel sort of dispersion of religions. Hinduism appears to be descended from euro-paganism, and it's possible that babylon is descended from it, egyptian religions evolved locally, as did the mayans, and those evolutions can be traced locally.
Faiths change. It's a historical fact everyone has accepted. You're not medieval because faiths change, they evolve. self-flogging based christianity did not spread as rapidly as charity-based christianity, and an evolution occured. Chances are you're not catholic at all. Your religion evolves. You're religion believes in the evolution of itself. It believes that no chrisitanity is correct, superior to its antecedent, because it has the words of jesus, which are superior, turn the other cheek, not eye for an eye.
My religion evolves too. Once taoism was just the search for the way. There was much mysticism, before Lao Tse, no one had found the way. Now we have a guide. There is some disagreement of course, but generally speaking.
Just throwing some TNT on the fire.
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7%
Well said
Just some nitpicky points.
1. Not 4000+ years. Moses: 1440BC, OT completed 300BC. Genesis maybe in it's original sumerian form 4000+ years.
Quote:
you're one dog away from the Son of Sam.
I had to quote this because I thought it was quoteable. I think no one else has ever said it. I don't know if it's true, but antimason, normally a sane individual, is gearing up for a battle with a force more powerful than he can defeat, or should. I wonder sometimes if Yhwh isn't actually satan, and El really god. But his inferred claim that, essentially, religion gets to be the science of god doesn't hold.
Genesis
6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
Nothing here about Odin, or even pantheons. Try again.
No one but Signy read the sign.
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