Mary Sue - the thread.
POSTED BY: AgentRouka
UPDATED: Monday, April 2, 2007 19:42
VIEWED: 24098
PAGE 1 of 9
Mary Sue fic. We so rarely talk about it in depth. So let's!
Like it?
Hate it?
Wrote it?
What is your most/least favored Mary Sue scenario? The lost family member or the lost lover? Why?
We all know the general guidelines, but where is the delicate line between an original character and a Mary Sue/male MS for you? Do you "know it when you see it"? Does it depend on the general quality of the fic? Or the treatment of the other characters?
Do you occasionally long for a Mary Sue warning along with the slash/smut/pairing/spoiler warnings that are the usual standard?
Have you ever been the obnoxious person to point out Mary-Sue tendencies to the author of a fic, only to receive vehement denial? Or were you thanked for your kind advice which was actually used, leaving you feeling vaguely startled, flattered and guilty of manipulating someone's creative expression?
What about fic cliches in general? How much can you take? Which ones do you like, which ones do you hate, and which ones puzzle you in their popularity?
Please opine!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
not a huge fan fic reader,
I prefer it funny and short
(Mary Sues are NEVER funny or short)
only good Mary Sue ever written IMO was Dorothy L. Sayer's creating the character Harriet Vane so she could marry her fictional hero: Lord Peter Whimsey
(I almost wrote my own novel, stealing him away from her!)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Have to say, I think most ficcers are MS-ing to some degree. Statistically, the majority are young and female, so there are a large number of Kaylee/River indentifiers. If you can't fit yourself into the skin of existing characters, that's when the fun starts.
But the warning signs for me are the physical descriptions, and the startling ability to do a huge number of things really well. And the reduction of all other characters to cut-outs.
Fic hates - we did this in another thread. Space-spawn, Rayne and definitely any combination of the two.
Of course, I should probably not dare to venture an opinion here, 'cos, well, erm, writer... 
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm completely lost. Don't get to read much fic. What's Mary Sue?
More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Mary-Sues and Marty-Stus described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue or here: http://www.subreality.com/marysue/explain.htm
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without. - Gautama Siddharta
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thanks a million for that, PR. I've come accross that a LOT in Buffy fanfic. Never knew there was a name for it! Ha!
Like I said, I don't get time to read a lot of fanfic, not nearly as much as I'd like. I'm making my first tentative forays into writing Firefly fanfic though, so I wanted to make sure I avoided anything bad!
More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The most startling -- and horrifying -- examples of Mary Sues I've come across in fanfic are in Lord of the Rings. A lot of teenaged girls creating perfect characters so they can go conquer the hearts of Legolas, Aragorn and Boromir and sometimes all three at the same time. They even invent races for their character that would make Tolkien roll in his grave, they're all perfect and beautiful and with multi-colored eyes, and if they're not the long lost sister of Arwen or somesuch, they're some elven princess from a far-away kingdom...
So, yeah, big Mary Sue hate here. They make me cringe and want to knock my head against a wall. I've come across a few Mary Sues in Firefly fanfic back at Fanfic.net, but mostly people are smarter and more reasonable in this 'verse. Probably because not many teenaged girls saw Firefly or Serenity, whereas everyone must have seen LotR at some point and sighed over Legolas's cheekbones and Aragorn's rugged looks...
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/Xeyra/Firefly%20and%20Serenity/B
anners%20and%20Headers/
"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, I'm creating a character (the first time in a long while) for a fic. I'm hesitant about posting it, though I don't think she's an MS because not only does she swear all the time and been raped,she's promiscious and a drug addict. But she is mostly a plot device. Any suggestions?
I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
What is your most/least favored Mary Sue scenario? The lost family member or the lost lover? Why?
I'm definitely not a fan of Mary Sues. Where they come from doesn't matter - if they are there, the most I'll do is skim over a fic.
Why don't I like them? The characters Joss created are so complex and flawed and real that I don't like to see them set against some ideal plastic-y character, and I don't like to see them getting all fixed and sorted out by same. The focus changes from these marvelous canon characters to some cardboard cutout's enjoyment of/intreraction with them, and I'm not drawn to that.
Quote:
We all know the general guidelines, but where is the delicate line between an original character and a Mary Sue/male MS for you? Do you "know it when you see it"? Does it depend on the general quality of the fic? Or the treatment of the other characters?
I agree with SpaceAngl - there definitely are hints of MS-ness in any original character, because the people we create contain little pieces of us. But the real problem, for me, is when the MS knows everything and fixes everything.
It's like someone walking into a horror movie and saying don't go down the dark stairway you damn fool!! which we all want to say, but that ruins it all! The characters don't know they're in a ghost story, that's why they walk right into their grisly deaths. Or get in trouble but make a daring heroic escape.
MS's ruin the Jossian story the same way. I like watching Joss's characters struggle with their issues, and I want to see them work it out themselves, instead of some schmoe coming along and ruining the tension Joss set up.
Quote:
Do you occasionally long for a Mary Sue warning along with the slash/smut/pairing/spoiler warnings that are the usual standard?
I don't think this would work, because I don't think most people realize they're writing a Mary/Marty Sue.
Quote:
Have you ever been the obnoxious person to point out Mary-Sue tendencies
If I really don't like a fic, I just leave it. As strongly as I may feel against something, it's only fanfic, and people should write what they want. Fic as a vehicle of fantasy or full-blown Mary Sue-ness is really OK - probably even a healthy thing for the teenaged LoTR lovers. But I'm sure as hell not gonna read it!
Which is why I like these threads - I get to vent things that I wouldn't leave as a comment.
Quote:
What about fic cliches in general? How much can you take?
What are the other cliches? Um, other then the sex, sex and more sex thing. Which also has it's place, but I do get sick of it. How many times can these characters have the Ultimate Orgasm? Sheesh!
-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
*is distracted by thought of Simon's ultimate orgasm*
Oh... um... what were we talking about?
More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME