Tax reform.
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:55
VIEWED: 6117
PAGE 3 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
BDN, umm.. what are you smoking ?
Did you, like, even read the concept he was expressing, or just stare at it with dull, glazed eyes because it wasn't a nice Fox News "for idiots" media presentation more suited for six year olds than adults ?
I swear I dunno what part of that asinine statement to savage first, but let's put it in dick and jane terms, ok.
A pokey-pokey tax to annoy people who hoard money would make them want to do something with it.
A tax BREAK for hoarding money would make them want to leave it sit right where it is.
Jumpin jesus on sportbike with budda in the sidecar... *growlmutter*...
Look, if I can program a Furby to do everything you do, you don't live up to my expectations of a person or sentience, which kind of renders discussion pointless.
Just.. just... I dunno.. THINK, or try to... PLEASE... unnngh.
I actually had to take my shoes and socks off to count up the number of personal insults in this post.
People are sitting on their money, let's tax it.
People are too fat, let's tax pop and junk food.
This sounds pretty liberal to me.
People are sitting on their money, let's cut small business taxes or offer incentives to get that money circulating.
People are too fat, let's offer tax breaks to people with gym memberships or other incentives to join sports programs.
IMHO, a liberal thinks people should be 'punished' for not doing the 'right thing'.
A conservative thinks people will do the 'right thing' if there is a little incentive. This was the thrust behind my post to DT as he is a self proclaimed conservative and I was looking for clarification. How I got the resident anarchist all fired up is beyond me.
Posting to stir stuff up.
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Quote:
I actually had to take my shoes and socks off to count up the number of personal insults in this post.
Good, but you missed one, I was hoping for the pants too.
I'll just sum this up easily.
10 REM PROGRAM START
20 /SAY "Damn Liberals"
30 /WAIT 5
40 /SAY "Liberals are bad"
50 /WAIT 5
60 /SAY "Clinton was a nightmare"
70 /WAIT 5
80 /WATCH Prog:Fox News(2)
90 /EAT Breakfast:Microwave(1)
100 FOR WORK=1 to (8*1000)
110 NEXT WORK
120 /WATCH Prog:Fox News(4)
130 /DISCARD Item:Newspaper(unread)
140 /IGNORE Item:Reality
150 /SAY "Tax Break"
160 /WAIT 5
170 /SAY "Incentive" /SPECIFICATION:OFF
180 /WAIT 5
190 /ASSIGN LIBERAL=TERRORIST
200 /DENY Item:Truth
210 /WAIT 5
220 /SAY "It's all the liberals fault."
230 /FOR SLEEP=1 to (8*1000)
240 NEXT SLEEP
250 GOTO 10
If I could replace you with a program, what makes you different from one ?
A machine can clobber together so called "conservative" talking points and parrot them, which is all that you are doing - and really, why should I treat someone as a person if they do not reason in a sentient fashion ?
Sorry folks, but it's just come to a point with me, of folks making passionate, reasoned arguments from one side of an issue or another, and actually putting thought and time and effort into it.. only to come up against a wall of dogmatic, prepared responses I could program a machine to do a better job of, and that's just lit my tempers fuse, you see.
If you wanna be treated like a sentient, act like one.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
If I could replace you with a program, what makes you different from one ?
A machine can clobber together so called "conservative" talking points and parrot them, which is all that you are doing - and really, why should I treat someone as a person if they do not reason in a sentient fashion ?
Sorry folks, but it's just come to a point with me, of folks making passionate, reasoned arguments from one side of an issue or another, and actually putting thought and time and effort into it.. only to come up against a wall of dogmatic, prepared responses I could program a machine to do a better job of, and that's just lit my tempers fuse, you see.
If you wanna be treated like a sentient, act like one.
So for clarification purposes only.
Agree with Frem and you are a sentient being. Disagree with Frem and you are a computer program.
If I'm missing something about the thrust of your argument please enlighten me.
Posting to stir stuff up.
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Quote:ROFLMAO. Oh my God, Frem. You're my substitute for the Comedy Channel (since I'm in Peru and don't get it). Thank you.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
10 REM PROGRAM START
20 /SAY "Damn Liberals"
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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Quote:This wouldn't be my ideal, but it is drastically better than what we've got. Love the check off idea.
Originally posted by rue:
Here's my take:
Income tax - the same on people and business, progressive, simple calculation, no dodges, breaks, sub-categories etc.
You also get a form to check off how much of your income tax do you want going to where. If you wanted 100% on the environment, that's where it would go.
What do you have in mind for the percentage? (You're talking about a flat income tax right?)
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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BDN
And by your definition, this is a conservative idea, a little nudge, as it was intended to do. I actually don't need to defend my position as a conservative, I suspect the people who defend Bush have to explain how that is conservative.
But fat tax isn't tax-the-rich, it's tax-lazy-money. Whether it's a billion dollars or 600 bucks, it didn't do anything this year, it gets taxed. Encourages economic activity. No loopholes.
Liberal tax ideas all have one thing in common, and it's not "tax the rich." It's "raise a ton of cash" because liberals are not motivated by fiscal conservatism, they're motivated by all of these ideas they have for programs to "help people." A lot of those I might call programs to "interfere with people" - like a friend of my mom's whose job it is to take children from poor parents (and a whole list of rules are in place defining being poor as child abuse) yeah, that's really 'helping' but that aside, it's the desire to spend that motivates liberal tax programs.
Even progressive tax reductions, such as 'no one under the poverty level pays tax' (the reagan plan) are initiated by republicans. This is how the democrats got their reputation of tax-and-spend, it's not just a talking point. Sadly, the new republicans are borrow-and-spend, and borrow is a tax, because it weakens the dollar, thus decreasing the value of all of the dollars that americans hold or earn.
I think my fat tax is in the guiding hand corner of conservative economics, nudging people towards more economic activity. If the rich don't want ot be taxed, they can use those millions to employ people to provide goods and services for which they will get money back. In fact, not only will business exist which are less than 20% profit margin, businesses would exist with 0% profit just to avoid the tax.
Hmmm.
Hey!
You just talked me into something.
Okay, screw it. I'm making the fat tax 2.5% now. That way, thing which aren't done now because they're not profitable can be done, because they're less of a loss then the fat tax.
Americans are lazy. I think I just came up with half a trillion dollars.
Nifty
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Geezer
This doesn't actually follow, it's a little panicky. It's not really that bad. The economy would rejoice tomorrow if you eliminated all the taxes you listed.
Not really panicky, just aware that the government has made committments to a lot of lower and middle-income people to provide pension support, medical support, and unemployment benefits. Folks have been paying into these systems all their working life, and any type of tax reform has to be able to provide funding for the services promised through some means.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:Conservatives are progammed in Basic? That explains a lot.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
10 REM PROGRAM START
20 /SAY "Damn Liberals"
30 /WAIT 5
40 /SAY "Liberals are bad"
50 /WAIT 5
60 /SAY "Clinton was a nightmare"
70 /WAIT 5
80 /WATCH Prog:Fox News(2)
90 /EAT Breakfast:Microwave(1)
100 FOR WORK=1 to (8*1000)
110 NEXT WORK
120 /WATCH Prog:Fox News(4)
130 /DISCARD Item:Newspaper(unread)
140 /IGNORE Item:Reality
150 /SAY "Tax Break"
160 /WAIT 5
170 /SAY "Incentive" /SPECIFICATION:OFF
180 /WAIT 5
190 /ASSIGN LIBERAL=TERRORIST
200 /DENY Item:Truth
210 /WAIT 5
220 /SAY "It's all the liberals fault."
230 /FOR SLEEP=1 to (8*1000)
240 NEXT SLEEP
250 GOTO 10
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Geezer
and I said I wouldn't reneg on that.
The point i made was that, for example, my uncle, a millionaire, gets a check from the govt. for $1750 every month in social security. comes in with the dividends and his work pension.
The point is, that Soc. Sec. is not an investment system, as it claims to be.
Think about it, if you live to be 65, then the govt. will give you bakc 33% of the money it took from you with no interest. Who would invest in such a plan? No one. It's a tax and spend program invented by a democrat who wanted to get republicans to support it so he dressed it up as an investment program which it never was.
The reality is that my uncle's money that he put in was spent a long time ago. The money which now goes to pay his dispersement comes from payroll taxes which america can no longer afford.
Some working schmoe works for $9/hr and pays 6%, so if he works 800 hrs in a month, of $7200, $432 goes to my uncle. So it takes 4 shmoes to pay my uncle's golf fees. This is not the mark of a functional society.
Obviously, some people have, not through good management, come to depend on soc. sec. so we can't leave them out in the cold, but we can phase this bad idea out, and reduce the payroll burden, and then maybe people would hire americans.
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DT
Quote:I don't think of myself as a liberal, but some liberal ideas make a lot of sense, like government-provided health care.
it's the desire to spend that motivates liberal tax programs
34% of private health care premiums are for administration and paperwork, Medicare historically has a 4% overhead. In 1999 paperwork cost each USer $1059, while Canadians spent only $307.
The US pays more for health care per capita and gets less in results than any other industrialized nation and many so-called 'third-world' nations.
US producer corporations are hampered by health-care costs (and bad capital investments and products, but that's another topic) compared to foreign competition.
IF THIS WAS A BUSINESS DECISION, or even a matter of simple pragmatics, you'd award the entire health-care business to the government.
But you've taken an ideological position instead.
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