Saffron's techniques

POSTED BY: PhoenixRose
UPDATED: Thursday, June 15, 2006 15:19
VIEWED: 6514
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ZZETTA13

Thursday, June 1, 2006 1:56 PM

Saffron is an evil temptress queen bee. I love her. Why do I say this? Because what she does is a game to her. Even if folks get harmed in her little games. "You're assuming the money was the payoff."

Mal and Wash,two different men, two different aproaches.Why is little Saffron such a devilwoman? She could have easily left Mal all alone in his bunk unaproached and unharmed and went strait up to the bridge to seduce Wash. What fun would that have been for her?

Nope,sex and the pleasures of sex for either man or woman was not the point of it all. The seduction was the point.The success of the seduction was the payoff and the money just a bonus.

Given enough time Yosafbrige could maybe have seduced the entire crew. Book included. "Special Hell" special rate booking for a group of 5 to 7

Z

CHRISMOORHEAD

Thursday, June 1, 2006 2:17 PM

http://www.geocities.com/tonbo_kai_dojos/onna.html

Semi-related information, not as in depth as I would have liked. But then, anyone talking about "ninjas" in factual sense are usually full of shit to begin with.

The Kama-Sutra actually deals a lot more with seduction than it does with sexual positions. Splits men and women into three main categories each based on their body types and temperaments. For each type of man/woman, there is a way to approach each type of the opposite or, yes, same gender. The lotus woman prefers eye contact, but not if it's from a stallion-man. The Chitrini prefers physical contact from anyone of equal size. The Fairy prefers the stallion in most cases, but whatever her preference usually sticks to the one type.

This is a very dumbed down summary of the beginning of one chapter... I was never very comfortable reading the thing. Less so, after seeing how manipulative females can be.

KPO

Thursday, June 1, 2006 2:22 PM

Quote:
I did notice that she mentioned bible with Mal, and myth with Wash. Considering Mal's dislike of religion, I thought that was a weird choice.

Maybe she took her cue from Mal as soon as he introduced the word 'moral' into the equation. This was what I thought was weird - I have a similar religious history to Mal and these days I cringe anytime I hear morality raised on the issue of sex.

DEEPGIRL187

Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:06 PM

I believe your right, PhoenixRose. Think about Wash's relationship with Zoe. She is obviously the dominant partner. So one of Wash's main concerns (if he doesn't want to be killed), would probably be Zoe's pleasure. Now in the case of Mal, his ideas about women are somewhat antiquated. That being said, the thought of a woman pleasing him would probably be more appealing. Great observation, I didn't notice it before.

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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, June 1, 2006 5:54 PM

I never got much past the body type descriptions in the Kama Sutra. A lot of what it talked about was very strange; techniques for properly forming different sorts of marks on you partner's body, the relative sizes (I didn't know the "yoni" came in different sizes; that was interesting to find out) and what they were called. It was very strict.
Anyway. Yes, I think Wash is certainly into pleasing his woman. I think it's not only a matter of him wanting to survive the marriage, I think he really gets off on being able to please Zoe; it's mutually benificial. Otherwise, hey, they wouldn't have gotten married.
And I think that the idea of being pleased would appeal to Mal - not to say he would be a totally selfish lover just because of that - for a few reasons. First, his possible view of women, although it isn't too antiquated because he did say she wasn't property and such, and he does respect Zoe as a warrior. Anyway, there's also the fact that he hadn't really, well, gotten any for awhile. Wash, being married to Zoe, was getting laid on a regualar basis and so probably isn't quite so tense and eager to be pleased. But like I said, I'm fairly sure that pleasing has always been important to him. Some men are like that.
This is fun!

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ONTHEDRIFT

Friday, June 2, 2006 12:57 AM

PhoenixRose - thought provoking discussion.
I think that Saffron's tactics don't have too much to do with what kind of lover she senses Mal and Wash are. I think her seduction has more to do with her being intuitive as to what it would take for them to succumb to her seduction. Think about it, Mal resists her for moral reasons, he believes it would be unjust to take "advantage" of her. Saffron knows that Mal is concerned with what is morally right because he makes his opinion on the whole arranged marriage thing abundantly clear to her etc. And she can of course "read" people well, she therefore knows that Mal is an honorable man. Quoting the bible was her way of trying to persuade him that by being with her he wasn't doing anything wrong. "Good bible", because it is after all a moral authority that she uses to reassure him that what they are about to do is morally ok. She then reassures him that he isn't taking advantage of her, ("Had I the dare to choose...I would've chosen you." "I swell, etc etc")

As far as Wash goes, Saffron's limited exposure to he and Zoe's relationship showed that the two are quite different, and that Zoe appears to be the dominant one. Thinking something (read someone) different and new might appeal to Wash sexually, Saffron tries to be similar to Wash (the crap she spins about the special stars and the sexualized myth to go along with it). She then also tries to be dissimiliar to Zoe- she is subservient and docile, needy even, ("it seemed she didn't respect you..." "please make this night what it should be, show me the stars...").

So basically I think Saffron is extremely adept at finding a person's soft underbelly. She exposes people's "weaknesses" or needs and desires, as it will make them more susceptible to falling for her seduction\con. Companion training would no doubt come in handy for a con artist...Hmm I wonder about Inara's reasons for leaving Sihnon...hmm.

Sorry if I bored you to death PhoenixRose, but I enjoyed the question you posed and the discussion that eventually followed. If by some chance you did read this far let me know what you think. Thanks!

PHOENIXROSE

Friday, June 2, 2006 7:25 AM

You have a good point, onthedrift. Quoting the "good bible" was a way to respond to the question of what is morally right, it's just the wording used that kinda caught my attention; "The woman shall open to the man as the frow to the plow, and he shall work in her, and again, til she bring him to his fall and rest him then on the sweat of her breast."
No mention of bringing her to her fall. Maybe it could be implied, and she went on to say he pretty much turns her on, but it was never more than implied.
Then with Wash: "She was open, inviting, and the stars would rush into her; through the skin of her, making the oceans boil with sensation. And when she could stand no more ecstasy she puffed up her cheeks and blew out the sky."
In this "good myth" it's the feminine pleasure that's spoken about, and the masculine pleasure that is implied (stars rushing into her...)
I absolutely think you're right that she thought someone different from Zoe might appeal to him, and she did act very different, but it was still in a certain way focused on her more than him ("Show me the stars" rather than, for example, "Let me show you the stars" or even "Let us see the stars") and Wash was very close to being taken in by that, even wishing he was "someone else" at that point. So the idea of her pleasure is what was turning him on, whereas with Mal it was more the idea of his pleasure. Though again hers was mentioned, he was already taken in by that point, and her saying that she wanted him just took it over the top.
In my experience, it's usually the more dominant, "captainy" men who would be more aroused by the idea of their own pleasure, while slightly more submissive men really like the idea of a lady's pleasure, which brings them pleasure in turn. Now, dominant men aren't always selfish lovers, per se, but they are more likely to be. If they don't think about it too much, you know. The type of man who more likes the idea of a woman being pleased really just doesn't know how to be a selfish lover. Of course this is all just in my experience, which is admittedly fairly limited. But I still think it fits the characters pretty well.

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22CLAWS

Friday, June 2, 2006 8:13 AM

What about Saffron's attempted seduction of Inara? Is this one more or less ambitious than her manipulation of the two men? The occasion allows less (if any) preparation, but, Inara is a far more sophisticated mark.

Confounded, 22

FLATTOP

Friday, June 2, 2006 12:08 PM

22:
Inara definitely appears to be a harder target, but in the end is the easiest. She plays to Inara's wanting to be strong and in control, and even tosses in Mal trying to keep her away (man is bad and trying to control me, please save me?). A few more alarm free minutes, and Jayne would have been heading for his bunk.
Her attempts to seduce Mal would likely have worked on me if I were single...(being married like I am, finding a woman in my bed would get all sorts & kinds of help called upon to get her out of there & make it plain I had nothing to do with this).
Her attempt at seducing Wash had no effect on me (nearing the point of me not noticing she was trying to seduce him); but I could see where if she'd tried exactly the same things on Wash when he and Zoey were fighting (about something other than Saf of course) she would have had a better shot at getting him. So definitely her choice of technique was specific to the target.
Seducing the whole crew?
Jayne would be too easy. Hardly worth the effort (no matter how well the tenor clears his throat, you do not applaud), unless she made sure he knew she had already taken out the rest of the crew, and was fully on his guard against her. He'd still cave, but at least she'd have to try.
Kaylee: Perhaps show a 'gift' for working on ships, and a bit of innocent fascination... She wouldn't be the first prarie harpy to be on her back in the engine room.
Book: I need someone to talk to who understands the bible and... once they were alone I'm sure she'd wear him down.
River: I don't see it. Not unless the woman is truly pathological and believes to her core what she is doing. Can't fool a reader.
Simon: toughest nut on the boat other than River. He's got a thing for Kaylee, loves River beyond reason, and is polite/respectable through and through. A naked woman? 'What seems to be the problem miss?' Detached doctor persona is his primary state of being. Kaylee's been working on him for months (with tutoring from Inara), and has managed 1 drunken cuddle, and a few smiles. I don't see Saffron unlocking him in a hurry.

Do you know what your sin is Captain?
Aww Hell. I'm a big fan of all seven.

ELOISA

Friday, June 2, 2006 12:55 PM

I don't think it's fair to say that Inara was the easiest target. It's more likely, going on what she says later about not playing a player, that she realised something was up before the sirens started going and was hoping to get Saffron into a position where she could neutralise the threat when Yo-Saff-Bridge wasn't expecting an attack.

Mal and the Bible; there's another angle to this. Though he now has a very negative reaction to organised Christianity, he was clearly raised a Christian and therefore might have an even more negative reaction to mythology because it'd be the way he was brought up. Just a thought.

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