Did Buffy 'jump the shark' with Dawn's intro?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, February 16, 2006 22:23
VIEWED: 11093
PAGE 1 of 3

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, February 1, 2006 6:12 PM

On jumptheshark.com , a good number say that Buffy jumped as of Dawn's introduction.
Personally, I found the character not as annoying as the fact that she was 'made', and it keeps me from getting into who she is (I keep wondering WHAT she is...), I mean is she flesh and blood? An illusion? Has she a soul? If so, where did it come from? Does she have to be annoying? Is she magically programmed?
I think Dawn as a continuing character was a mistake. It's the only thing keeping me from taking a look at season 6 & 7.

Thoughts?

Dawn cuts grease and my suspension of dis-belief Chrisisall

STAKETHELURK

Wednesday, February 1, 2006 7:42 PM

Since even the "Jump the Shark" website can't seem to properly define the term, I basically ignore anything they have to say. It's such a nebulous term that everyone has a different idea of what it means; worse, everyone thinks there's only one definition, which leads to confusion. If you want to define what you believe "Jump the Shark" to mean, then mayve we can have a talk.

As for Dawn keeping you from watching season 6&7, her role in the show diminishes in those seasons because their central plots no longer revolve around. If that's what's holding you back, then you shouldn't let it. I mean, Season 6 has "Once More With Feeling," one of the greatest Bufy episodes ever! You don't wanna miss out on that just because Dawn gets on your nerves.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, February 1, 2006 8:21 PM

Didn't bother me any when Dawn showed up. Actually, I thought it was a rather clever way of adding a new character.

I personally don't think Buffy ever "Jumped the Shark", but I think it came closest

Select to view spoiler:

when Spike tried to rape Buffy.

And what are the multiple definitions of "Jumping the Shark"? I always understood it as: "that's when they took things too far / started to suck".

EDITED: Hastily to hide spoilers.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Wednesday, February 1, 2006 9:41 PM

Heck no. I've never had the same problems that everyone else seemed to have with Dawn. When she first showed up I thought it was jumping the shark because everyone knew she didn't have a sister. I should have known better. Joss came up with a great reason for her introduction.

I found her character intriguing during the fifth season. Beyond that she was just a filler character who turned sorta hot by the seventh season.

STAKETHELURK

Wednesday, February 1, 2006 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And what are the multiple definitions of "Jumping the Shark"? I always understood it as: "that's when they took things too far / started to suck".

That’s certainly one of the more popular definitions. But look at the definition they provide at jumptheshark.com (in the FAQ) for what the term means:

Quote:
Q. What is jumping the shark?
A. It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on...it's all downhill. Some call it the climax. We call it "Jumping the Shark." From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same.
(emphasis mine)

They identify it here with the climax of a narrative. If one views a television series as a long-running, multi-season story—which is certainly how I think “Buffy” should be viewed—then the climax is both inevitable and vital to the story arc. It’s a good thing. And equally as vital as the climax is the denouement, the lessening of action following the emotional peak. Thus, I personally would place the climax of “Buffy” at the end of Season Five, with the following two seasons as the necessary denouement. So, again, any piece of good fiction will have a climax and a denouement, and these are good things. And if this is the definition of “Jumping the Shark” according to jumptheshark.com, then every show will (if it’s given enough time, damn FOX!

) jump the shark and that is a good thing. But then look at the categories on their website and how the subject is treated, as a bad thing, something to be avoided—which contradicts their given definition.

Then there’s that first sentence, “A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak.” What the hell does that mean? Look at the statement very closely. From where I’m standing, it looks like they’re saying that a show “jumps the shark” when it reaches its widely accepted “peak.” IE, a show “jumps the shark” when it does its very best episode, because with that being its very best episode the show can never match that “peak” again. “Jumping the shark” again appears to be a very positive thing; a show is at its absolute best when it “jumps the shark.”

But at their same website, they seem to classify “jumping the shark” as the moment when you realize that a show is too far gone to ever recover; it’s the deathblow not the climax. That contrasts very sharply with what they actually say in their own definition of the term.

And then we get into the categories on their website: “Different Actor, Same Character,” “Birth,” “Death,” “New Kid in Town,” “A Very Special Episode,” “Singing,” etc. Has a show “jumped the shark” because it does one of the things on these categories? Certainly a lot of people call “shark-jumping” as soon as a show nears any of these things, simply because it starts dealing with what some regards as a “sharkish” subject. “Buffy” did several of them, so did it “jump the shark” multiple times? If so, then what the hell is “jumping the shark” because I find it hard to imagine that a show can enter multiple death spirals. Unless “jumping the shark” isn’t permanent, in which case what use is the term anyway—if a show enters an unrecoverable downward spiral and then recovers, well....

If “jumping the shark” is a defining moment where as you put it Storymark, they too things too far,” what happens if they take things back? The spoiler you mention was very shocking, but does a single moment doom a show? What if they shock, then deal with the shock, then move on. Does that moment count as jumping the shark? Is it even possible to pinpoint a downward spiral based on one single thing, especially if the process is a gradual decline? My point being, that in the definition you gave (“that's when they took things too far / started to suck”), taking things too far and starting to suck are two distinct things. The first one can be temporary, the second one presuma

CHRISISALL

Thursday, February 2, 2006 4:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Anyway, sorry for the long post. As you can see, this whole “jump the shark” business tends to push my “angry” button.

But it sure does get you to write terrifically interesting posts.

Thanks.

Chrisisall, who will, I guess, get around to 6 & 7...
eventually...

KWICKO

Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:20 AM

I wouldn't pass up Seasons 6 & 7 just on account of Dawn being in them. She annoyed me, sure, but it's something I learned to get over. Besides, she really IS written pretty well - most 15-year-old girls I've ever known ARE pretty annoying most of the time!

Don't skip 6 & 7, or you'll be missing some (more) great stuff.

Mike

"Kaylee, find that kid that's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus; we need a hood ornament."

DAX82

Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:35 AM

I loved Dawn. Couldnt picture the show without her. I hated the Slayerettes though. I think I could have strangled Kennedy. When they crossed over to Angel to get the psycho slayer back I was hoping Angel and the gang would take them out. But obviously that wasnt gonna happen.

DATALESS

Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:43 AM

No way, Jumping the shark is when the show start or as least is noticible getting worse. In Happy Days when the Fonz "Jumps the Shark" on the show was already on it's way out. If that event never happen the show still would have been canceled because the show was failing to keep it's fans interested. Joss adding Dawn to Buffy is a cool and interesting, so what she is annoing. She is meant to be annoying, what little sister isn't annoying (and does say River isn't annoying, she drives her brother crazy enough to give his life to save her.) So Dawn plays here role well. Keeping her instead of killing her tells me how good a story teller Joss really is. First he could have simply erased her from history and went on with out her, how easy would that be, so easy it's cool and unique to keep her around and not kill her. She is such a pain that she invites Harmony into the house (Slayer come out and play.) How many time have you seen that happen new character or a twin appears with no explantion and the die by the end of the ep? Every Sci fi show has down it. So why even attempt to do something everyone else has done? To do it different and Joss does it nearly flawlessly. Thanks Joss.

Joss it's my master but he is a fellow Browncoat and the first. That means something, I just don't know what.

GROOSALUGG

Friday, February 3, 2006 4:56 AM

I'm one of the few who not only don't mind Dawn, I actually like her.

Yes, she can be hard to take at times in S5, and during that year, people who accuse her of being whiny have a case. But when you get right down to it, all she ever wanted was to be included in the action with the rest of the Scoobies, and all of her angst came from the fact that they treated her like a little kid who had to be protected from it all, even after Glory was defeated. I sympathize with her. By S6, she was as old as Buffy, Willow, and Xander were when the show first started, and nobody protected them. (That's dangerously close to being a rant--all that's missing is an exclamation point on the end--but like I said, I'm a Dawn supporter, and I feel the need to stick up for her .)

Anyway, as has been said, she sort of fades to being a background character (a la Oz or Jenny) during seasons 6 and 7, so the dislike of her shouldn't be the thing that stops anyone from watching those episodes. Hey, S7 has a whole lot more wrong with it than a little Dawn-whining!

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE