How psychopaths control society, and why we don't do anything about it
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 07:38
VIEWED: 18463
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I got this email from an email group, which I'm very fortunate to be included in. I know we have discussed psychopathy on the forum many times (not so much lately) but I thought this was insightful and well-reasoned and worth passing on. The discussion began with "men are idiots" and "conservatives are stupid" and then wandered in this direction, where the author very much disagrees with the "conservatives are stupid" meme. This is posted with permission of the author:
Quote:
Once a structure beneficial to some is established, those who benefit from it will continue to try and transform everything around them into what is beneficial to them. Conservatives are constantly changing the world they live in in such a way that they gain more and more from it. The US has altered the world massively to make it much easier for them to control it at least in the short term. The world can never remain the same it always changes due to the very action of the elements within it, human or otherwise.
This is the very basis of dialectical reasoning. That which is formed by an environment inevitably changes that very environment. The people in power transform the world in order to not only stay in power but to make it even easier for them to exploit it. This is the same behavior as all of the rest of us. We live in houses, we use cell phones, we have medicine... we are constantly altering the world in a way we think will benefit us, without however considering how we are altering future probable outcomes.
Conservatives behave the same way as the rest of the population. How could the western world have created the holocaust around us without the vast majority of its population disregarding what was happening and disregarding that they in fact were instrumental in enabling their rulers to succeed in this endeavor? The answer is simple and well embodied in XXX's line. "It is difficult to get a person to understand something, when their world-view or salary depends on them not understanding it." The west's world-view of exceptionalism, a view held by the Nazis as well, has justified some of the worst barbarities visited and continuing to be visited on this planet. XXX, the inclusion of world-view into that sentence was a very good inclusion.
ZZZ, your phrase: "So, they [conservatives] block out evidence which doesn't confirm their long held values and beliefs, or disrupt their world." I am afraid I have to disagree with this. I have had the chance to correspond with some people that very much belong to this class and what struck me the most troubling is that they do not block out evidence at all, in fact they make excellent use of it. They use it in order to know how to prevent the controlled population from reacting to it. Also they use it to benefit themselves.
Did you know that London bankers actually screen for psychopaths? They found that most people have ethical reservations that they seem unable to overcome. Psychopaths on the other hand can be counted on to do whatever benefits them and thus they can be counted on to act exactly as desired as long as they benefit. This makes them much better tools, dangerous, but much more predictable. Those controlling, being psychopaths themselves, obviously are not bothered by this but rather welcome it.
One individual I correspond with agrees completely with climate shift and sees opportunities for investment. I pointed out that the future prospects are very bleak and he said, "not for me". In discussing the Ukrainian situation I was struck at just how accurate his knowledge was of what was going on there. No delusional thinking for him. I pointed out that the economy is in total collapse. He agreed. I conjectured that in the long run it will turn out very bad for the EU. He agreed. However as far as he was concerned turmoil always provided profit if you knew how to respond. He shorted the Ukrainian currency, Hryvnia, well before it tanked. According to him he made a "killinNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Ignorance is a necessary ingredient for oppression. AKA libtardism breeds libtardism.
There is much in that post to ruminate on. So far, seems concise and well constructed.
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It's a necessary ingredient for a lot of things.
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You geniuses think you're the only ones that figured that out. Yes, ignorance comes in many forms, not the least of which belongs to the misinformed.
For some it comes in the Giant, Extra Large Family Pack.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It's a necessary ingredient for a lot of things.
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Quote:I think Obama isn't a psychopath, but he IS one of those willing (high level) vassals. Unable to exert any meaningful influence on the banks excessive printing of money, the health insurances excessive predation on the economy, the wealth gap, and minimum wages, Obama has become enchanted with the one form of control he DOES have: drones. That little "joke" about his girls' boyfriends begin very careful because he has drones??? Sign of a sick mind.
You geniuses think you're the only ones that figured that out. Yes, ignorance comes in many forms, not the least of which belongs to the misinformed.
For some it comes in the Giant, Extra Large Family Pack.-SGG
The only thing that bothers me about reichwing criticism of Obama is that it's one sided. They'll criticize Obama for doing exactly what Bush did. It was Bush, as I recall, who blew a big invasion-sized hole in the budget, a big prescription-sized hole in Medicare, and big telcom-sized hole AND body-sized hole in the Constitution (that "god damned piece of paper" which protects our persons and things from unreasonable search and seizure, and which protects us from unreasonable detention.)
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:I directed the author to look at this thread, and author says: Very interesting comment. Care to join the email list? PM me.
So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.
Just kind of noddling on the topic, if sociopaths are uninhibited by empathy from certain actions .... and we live (mostly, now) in a human environment .... then sociopaths will tend to gather at the nexuses where they can make use of the most people. This would mean nodes where a single person could draw from the resources of thousands if not millions or billions of people:
Banking and investment: Money flows everywhere. People seeking to make use of others will tend to gravitate towards the concentration of money. This would be Wall Street traders and bankers who see their clients as so much chum, and the entire structure above them: Jamie Dimon. Lord Blankfein. "Dick" Fuld, before he took Lehman down the chute.
Media: Where else do you get to hold sway over millions? Rupert Murdoch and Pierre Omidyar.
Computers, connectivity, and the internet: Bill Gates. Pierre Omidyar. The current heads of Google. Zuckerberg. Steve Jobs, dead thank goodness. And all of the "doing well by doing good" crowd. Sociopaths in shepherd's clothing.
The alphabet-soup agencies. Petty tyrants with delusions of grandeur. Sad little kings of sad little hills.
Most politicians everywhere, although maybe they're in the crumb-licking vassal category.
Most anyone who has the title of President, Chair, or CEO of something large.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Being a member of this firefly fan site I feel obliged to check in once in a while. I like to get updates on what the cast of firefly is up to. Inevitably I find my search wondering at times to the troll dominated section of the site. I call it that because I have witnessed many conversations there that exposed some of you for who you are.
I would behest you who are attacking this country and its president to look into a mirror to witness what sh@t piles you have become.
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Quote:Behest you to look in the mirror once in a while yourself buddy, cause from here all I see is one of the deluded. Yanno, the kind who believes that corporations are his friend, that the military stands for freedom, and that politicians are there to serve you.
I would behest you who are judging this country and its president to look into a mirror to witness what sh@t piles you have become.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Presenting me as a corporate loving person and trying to imprint me with all you hate, is how you depict all that call you out for what you are. The fact that you believe the military in this country acts without the blessing of congress, shows you think like someone who has suffered Russian rule and really understands little else.
By the way I called it at least a month ago. I told you then because Russia is little more than a gas station for the world it would collapse with sanctions and changing oil prices. You showed your ignorance on things global then as well by suggesting Russia had other forms of industry to rely on. Watch what happens now as the Russian people start to cry uncle.
Putin the world is
at you.
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Quote:There is a Social Dominance Orientation scale where you answer how strongly you agree ( or disagree ) with questions such as:
Originally posted by G:
.
I love how you create this "other" group, this peasant class "basket," that you try to put everyone into who doesn't think like you no matter how you have to lie or defame or twist the facts. Who's the psychopath??? I definitely know who your vassal is.
This country would be better off if we cared less about how equal all people are.
Some groups of people are simply not the equals of others.
Some people are just more worthy than others.
The world isn't strictly sociopaths lording over everyone else. There are other kinds who aren't sick in the head but do very much want to be addressed as His Lordship or Her Ladyship. They will do whatever they must to get the respect they feel they deserve. Get out of their way or be run over beneath the wheels of their chariots.
See chapter 5 (page 160) of The Authoritarians at http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
The book nicely covers the thinking process of Social Dominators and their followers.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Care to join the email list? PM me.
Very happy to. You will find this reply first either here or by PM.
This would mean nodes where a single person could draw from the resources of thousands if not millions or billions of people: Banking and investment: Money flows everywhere.
I've read two articles that say that banks actually test people for sociopathy (being one is a recommendation) before they hire them. I may (or may not, depending on time) drag them out of the internet. I've ALSO read an article that says that people who do calculations first about personal monetary gain or loss show far greater sociopathic responses than controls.
Media: Where else do you get to hold sway over millions? Rupert Murdoch and Pierre Omidyar.
Hadn't thought of that.
Computers, connectivity, and the internet: Bill Gates. Pierre Omidyar. The current heads of Google. Zuckerberg. Steve Jobs, dead thank goodness. And all of the "doing well by doing good" crowd. Sociopaths in shepherd's clothing.
Or that.
The alphabet-soup agencies. Petty tyrants with delusions of grandeur. Sad little kings of sad little hills.
My understanding is that mostly they're just twisted fucks. (Confession of an Economic Hitman)
Most politicians everywhere, although maybe they're in the crumb-licking vassal category.
I vote crumb-licking vassal, except for the obvious Cheney's, Feith's etc.
Most anyone who has the title of President, Chair, or CEO of something large.
For these I also vote crumb-licking vassal if they've wormed their way into an existing structure.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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G, THUGR, KPO
The only people who want everyone to think they're the good guys who have explicitly disavowed care for actual human beings are you.
THUGR:
Originally posted by Kiki:
So you REALLY DON'T CARE if the vast majority of people live short miserable lives while very few are astronomically wealthy and powerful, or if instead the vast majority have decent lives to look forward to. Well, now we know what you stand for.
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Your a fucking moron: who gives a shit?
G:
Originally posted by Kiki:
And still no criticism of Kiev targeting civilians.
Originally posted by G:
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.
KPO
Originally posted by Signy:
[Kiev] has deliberately killed thousands of civilians and displaced a million more.
Originally posted by KPO:
Complete nonsense.
You write off people if they're on the wrong 'side'. You may not be sociopathic --- but you sure are their tools.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Have you checked this out yet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopath_Test
Ronson reaches similar conclusions to the author of the article.
I think empathy is an interesting feature of humanity. Most of us practise a kind of selective empathy and a small percentage of the population appear to operate without it all together.
I agree that empathy has given us evolutionary advanatage, so has the capacity to be selective with our empathy to turn it on and off.
We do it every day. Most of us. There are also a small percentage of the population that don't practice selective empathy, or are incapable of it.
I say that we select the use of empathy, same as any other emotion. We may switch it off when we eat meat, or walk past a homeless person (even if we throw a few coins at them, few of us will take them home), when we switch off the news because we can't tolerate what we see, when we have to make tough decisions at work or in our family that may affect many others adversely.
For people in positions of power that have to switch it off more regularly and it may even be in their advantage to not be particularly empathic people. Otherwise how do you retrench half your workforce, displace families to build a dam or a mine. Ever been in a workforce where the management consultants are called in to sweep through the place with a big fiscal broom and wondered where their humanity is?
It's even more evident in times of war, when that switch needs to be well and truly set to off. And they are not by and large psychopaths. An old friend of my dad was involved in the bombing of Dresden, a nicer man you couldn't meet, probably killed or helped kill thousands of civilians. Old people, babies, children....I'm pretty sure he has no regrets.
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There's an old Italian saying that goes - killing someone should change a man. It was implied that if it didn't, there was already something wrong with you.
I think if we raise a society that writes off individuals, we're training them to be the tools of sociopaths, and write off people for whatever reason is convenient. Wrong side. (Wrong color. Wrong income bracket. Wrong religion.) Or, in the parlance of the 60's - what if they called a war and no one came?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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I think most are changed by experiences of war, but still doesn't mean that you are become a psychopath.
I would argue that empathy and the ability to turn off emapthy are both part of the human condition.
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Oh hi Magon's
I didn't want to let this drop off the bottom.
I agree that most people can flexibly attenuate empathy (except the sociopaths who are stuck on zero). I just don't think it's a good thing. If we're living in a society where we have to constantly gear up what we've been told in order to pass people by - what kind of society are we living in? Maybe the plight of people around us, or the things we do in war, should bother us. Maybe we should change the world rather than stifle our empathy.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Well I'm a big fan of empathy, but I do beleive its kind of a survival thing to not be always empathic. Even the news issue, we'd all suffer vicarious trauma if we constantly felt empathy for every dire situation presented to us. It's more than an individual can cope with, because somewhere in the world something shitty is happening to someone. And that's always been the case. The world is a big place with lots of people.
Modern media brings us it all, or lots of it, particularly the horrible bits, trying to encourage people to click on a story because its more shocking than the last. I think we tend to be quite tribal at our basis 'are these our people?' If we say yes, we tend to feel more for the victims than if we can identify. And I think that is how we manage empathy. We feel for our own (mostly) and disassociate from the other.
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Quote:
Presenting me as a corporate loving person
No, you're the military-loving one. You know, the military? That organization that has killed millions of innocent civilians since WWII?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:Then you haven't been reading your own replies. Or G's. Or THUGR's, or JONGSSTRAWS, or RAPPY's.
No one on this site thinks that way.
These people - including you - have at various times explicitly not given two shits for thousands if not millions of innocent people being killed, starved, tortured, or impoverished by the authorities that you (they) support. I'm not reading much empathy for the victims in your casual dismissals. I'm gobsmacked that you even imagine that you're a caring person. It's just amazing.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Good stuff from many uv you.
I dont want to sound like a broken record, but I believ therez an intellijens factor linked to empathy. Stupid peepl tend to be meaner, maybe kuz it takes more intellijens to consider other perspectivez.
A big part uv the problem haz to do with short term advantaj.
Its a big survival disadvantaj to to be nice, jenerous and, to sum degree, visionary. In the short term, the predator who eats the most now winz. Hiz rival, who thot to leav sum prey alive for the future duznt hav the fat to make it thru to spring.
Sivilization iz suppozed to go abuv this. It haz, but it iz constantly at risk uv sliding down the muddy slope back to the rule uv the jungl.
You hav to wonder - if the human speciez wuz just a littl bit smarter on averaj, say 20 or 30 IQ points, the advantaj uv cooperation over 'momentary advantaj for me' woud be obvious to nearly everybody and maybe we woudnt be constantly bogged down in the petty battlz cauzed by greed.
(sorry if this iz not put together very well, but I hav a bunch uv distractionz going on at the moment)
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.b]
I might not be GREAT at parties, but I do have my uses iKiki :)
As smart as you are, isn't it great that we have the Kardashians around to take all the whollpings for us?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
*snort* you might as well say "trillions of babies!" You'd think evil that bad would be easy to find cites for - care to?
Ive posted ad nauseum about what the United States has done. Post after post, cite after cite. A whole long laundry list of one democracy after another that we toppled, only to replace it with a tyranny which practiced torture on its people, starting with the genocide that we visited on the natives, and wending our way thru the Philippines, Iran, Indonesia, Vietnam, South Africa, Grenada, and all of Central and South America.
I pointed out Libya, and Syria, and Iraq, and Afghanistan and you asked me why I brought up history?? I tried pointing out what was going on in Ukraine ... yanno, who was REALLY killing most of the people... and you did your damnedest to deny and obfuscate.
Now you're asking me for cites??? What kind of idiot are you? They were there, but you just closed your eyes and pretended they didn't exist. There were lots of good little Germans who just "didn't know" what was going on under Hitler, and you'd fit right in.
Should I have had empathy for them? Should I have empathy for people who support a sadistic and dictatorial regime?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:This is just about Ukraine. It's also VERY clear that you could "give a shit" about Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Grenada. I've asked you many times to discuss your moral qualms -if any- about US policy in general, and you strenuously avoided it. It was "history", and obviously irrelevant to you. The frosting, though, is you asking for cites now.
Originally posted by Kiki:
And still no criticism of Kiev targeting civilians.
Originally posted by G:
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.
Really???
The whole topic of the USA rampaging through the world and killing -literally- millions of people was so uninteresting that you didn't notice all of the cites previously posted? Couldn't care to follow up on it? You're either an amazing hypocrite or a world-class troll. Your lack of moral backbone was evident then and it's even more evident now.
ARE you a Nazi sympathizer?
Well, maybe yes. You seem to be protecting the Nazis in Kiev, and you DO seem to like killing people, as long it's people you don't care about. If the shoe fits, honey, you should wear it.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:Look, sweetie, if you have a fricking clue -which you don't- you'd realize that the stuff that seems "made up" to you is actually true. I have an advantage .... I remember a lot of this from personal experience. The Vietnam war and the CIA-sponsored fascist coup in Chile were within my teenage memory, and there've been at least .... oh, I dunno .... a dozen destabilizations -if not outright invasions- since then. It may be harder for you to have this information bc its outside of your experience, but all you need to do is look at this list...
I've asked you many times to discuss your moral qualms -if any- about US policy in general, and you strenuously avoided it. -SIGNY
You make up so much shit and then you honestly wonder why I haven't discussed much of anything with you?? Ever??? Really need me to paint a picture?-G
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html
I've cross-referenced this site against other online sources, (Wikipedia etc) and found it to be factual. Or, if you don't like this list, just search [any nation]+CIA or [any nation]+ United States + intervention + invasion. It doesn't take much to educate yourself. Until you do some learning, whatever you think is "made up" or "real" is just dust-bunnies. Fluff.
Quote:At least I don't provide moral support and social cover for atrocities, like you do.
The whole topic of the USA rampaging through the world and killing -literally- millions of people was so uninteresting that you didn't notice all of the cites previously posted? Couldn't care to follow up on it? You're either an amazing hypocrite or a world-class troll. Your lack of moral backbone was evident then and it's even more evident now.-SIGNY
Which you are funding btw. Unless you think whining on a forum absolves you some how.
Quote:So, since you can't/ didn't answer the question, does that mean "yes"?
ARE you a Nazi sympathizer?- SIGNY
ARE YOU? You fund US involvement in the Ukraine - you should change your username to SigHeil!-
Quote:In context, it's very clear that you don't give two shits about what the Kiev government DOES to Ukrainian citizens, and are providing moral, political, and social cover for actions that are rising to the level of war crimes and (as in the case of lustration) a restriction of democracy. That is the context of what you've said, and taking your own words out of context and trying to put a different spin on them is just... sad and pathetic.
Well, maybe yes. You seem to be protecting the Nazis in Kiev, and you DO seem to like killing people, as long it's people you don't care about. If the shoe fits, honey, you should wear it. -SIGNY
Wait, you quote me where I say I don't give a shit about Kiev, and then you say I am protecting Kiev... surely even you can see how dumb that is.
Quote:Yanno, we did look at emigrating but found the laws are very restrictive. It seems that the USA is the only nation that is expected to have open arms to all immigrants!
Hmmm... with you living in very expensive Cali, and a 2 income household, & hubby in tech, you are way ahead of me in terms of how many drones you've purchased with your tax dollars to kill innocent civilians. Now THAT is poetical irony! It's always the people that bitch the most...
YOU OTOH seem supportive of sending our drones here, setting up black sites there, setting up prison ships at sea (which btw held 80,000 victims), funding terrorists elsewhere, bombing and invading anywhere. Really, what do you expect to accomplish by killing millions, displacing tens of millions, and torturing hundreds of thousand? Winning the hearts and minds of the world? This might be a time for some quiet reflection - maybe even soul searching - to start asking yourself questions like "If we're not improving the world by our actions, why are we doing what we're doing and who is real
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I always thought that getting to be 'number one' took a degree of ruthlessness to get there and then ruthlessness plus some downright nasty stuff to stay there. That goes for individuals as well as countries.
It takes self belief to the point of narcisism and a disregard for others, most of the time.
Sometimes those displays of nationalism around July 4, which probably feel fine when you are there, do look a little nuremburgy from the outside. And that really goes for any country when they are in the throes of ecstatic national pride.
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Quote:I actually made a point- a point, mind you- of adding up the number of innocent civilians that the USA has killed in its various takeovers. A few million in Vietnam, and half-million to a million in Indonesia under Suharto, several hundred thousand in Iraq... yanno, a few hundred thousand here and million there: it adds up!
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Really, what do you expect to accomplish by killing millions, displacing tens of millions, and torturing hundreds of thousand?
So yeah, totally bat shit crazy.
And compared to incontrovertible historic facts ... the dust bunny speaks??
You are a worm, son. A moral worm, who is incapable of facing facts. A worm who hides his face in a bowl of Lucky Charms breakfast cereal when presented with exactly what he asked for: A CITE. At this point, at least one of us should recognize how woefully and pitifully ignorant you are, and how woefully and pitifully ignorant you wish to remain
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:As of now, G, probably the only person who claims not to know what I'm talking about is you.
I don't even know who or what you are talking about any more - I honestly wonder if you even do.
Shall I refresh your memory, in little digestible bits, of what this is all about?
You accused me and KIKI of making shit up. You asked for CITES, more than once, with emphasis!
Quote:
You and Signym - when people don't agree you either insult or make sh*t up or both. Cites?-G
Quote:
*snort* you might as well say "trillions of babies!" You'd think evil that bad would be easy to find cites for - care to?-G
Quote:
You make up so much shit and then you honestly wonder why I haven't discussed much of anything with you?? Ever??? Really need me to paint a picture? -G
I referred to my previous posts, in which I provided cites.
Quote:
Ive posted ad nauseum about what the United States has done. Post after post, cite after cite. A whole long laundry list of one democracy after another that we toppled, only to replace it with a tyranny which practiced torture on its people,- SIGNY
I provided a cite which has historical list of all USA interventions up to 1999, and urged you to do your own research.
Quote:
All you have to do is look at this list
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html
I've cross-referenced this site against other online sources, (Wikipedia etc) and found it to be factual. Or, if you don't like this list, just search [any nation]+CIA or [any nation]+ United States + intervention + invasion. It doesn't take much to educate yourself.
Now you claim you "don't know" what I'm talking about?
Did this refresh your memory? Or are you going to continue to claim that I'm just "making shit up" and that you "don't know" what I'm talking about?
Go look at the cites that you yourself asked for. Look into each instance on that list. Do your best to disprove it. Fill in with your own memories since 1999. Educate yourself.
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When the wise man points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger.
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Back to the original post.
What I got out of it is that there are actual winners in this "race of the psychopaths". Not only are there people who exist in our society who have absolutely no empathy, no instinct for fairness (which btw even chimps demonstrate) and no need for inclusion, they are absolutely brilliant at inserting themselves into the arteries of our social and economic existence: anywhere millions or billions of people need to obtain services is where these people position themselves. It's a human-rich environment, and since humans are the prey, that's where they are:
Banking and investment (Lord Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Dick Fuld - before he drove Lehman off a cliff, Buffet, Soros)
Information and communication services (the current owners of Google, Zuckerberg, Pierre Omidyar, Gates, Jobs- dead, thankfully, Murdoch)
Military and alphabet security (Cheney and the neocons)
Religion
Meanwhile, the rest of society either maintains a state of blissful denial, choosing to believe that each of them is indeed the master of his or her own fate, or they crowd around the sociopaths hoping to lick a few crumbs from the floor. I have to wonder: When does the survival instinct kick in, if ever?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:As of now, G, probably the only person who claims not to know what I'm talking about is you.
I don't even know who or what you are talking about any more - I honestly wonder if you even do.
No, no, no SIG, I too do not see a correlation between the topic and what you and kiki post. I have been saying just that since I started posting on this site.
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Back to the original post.
What I got out of it is that there are actual winners in this "race of the psychopaths". Not only are there people who exist in our society who have absolutely no empathy, no instinct for fairness (which btw even chimps demonstrate) and no need for inclusion, they are absolutely brilliant at inserting themselves into the arteries of our social and economic existence: anywhere millions or billions of people need to obtain services is where these people position themselves. It's a human-rich environment, and since humans are the prey, that's where they are:
Banking and investment (Lord Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Dick Fuld - before he drove Lehman off a cliff, Buffet, Soros)
Information and communication services (the current owners of Google, Zuckerberg, Pierre Omidyar, Gates, Jobs- dead, thankfully, Murdoch)
Military and alphabet security (Cheney and the neocons)
Religion
Meanwhile, the rest of society either maintains a state of blissful denial, choosing to believe that each of them is indeed the master of his or her own fate, or they crowd around the sociopaths hoping to lick a few crumbs from the floor. I have to wonder: When does the survival instinct kick in, if ever?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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oh I think sociopaths exist at all levels of society and a lot of those traits we are taught to admire. If you see my earlier post, and you read 'the secret of success' type books, you'll see them threaded with examples. I've noted that one of the key elements of those kinds of books are their focus of cultivating networks - basically faking that you care about others to get ahead.
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I actually cited the devastation and loss of life to civilians ON BOTH SIDES well before you were instructed to use it as a political talking point, and actually several times.
Cites?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:Well, since you WERE talking about me making shit up, and demanding(!) cites (I even quoted you!), YOU don't know what you're talking about. AFA as you "not giving shit" ... well, you were quoted by KIKI. Your direct words.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have absolutely, positively no freaking clue what I was even talking about.
Sheesh. What a tool.
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Oh, so your whole beef isn't whether the USA killed millions and tortured hundreds of thousands? Your whole beef is about whether I dissed your fragile ego, and your even more fragile morals????
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
One of these days when I have more time, I'll go back into that Russia Invades Ukraine thread, where you bleated endlessly about some phantom invasion but really couldn't give two shits about thousands of people being killed ... or about the USA's history of doing the same to few million more people in the recent past. It really just encapsulates your whole skewed moral compass.... stacks of bodies a mile high on one side of the ledger and some random photos of Russian tanks on the other. And you pay scant attention to the stacks of bodies. That's how I perceive your priorities. And I'm sure you have all kinds of rationalizations for why you're correct, but I welcome your showing me how I'm wrong.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Back to the OP:
Meanwhile, the rest of society either maintains a state of blissful denial, choosing to believe that each of them is indeed the master of his or her own fate*, or they crowd around the sociopaths hoping to lick a few crumbs from the floor. I have to wonder: When does the survival instinct kick in, if ever?
* And in fact, misappropriating the blame for "when things go wrong", because if one is to blame, then one at least has (or had) the power to make things right. Apparently, nothing makes people more uncomfortable than knowing that they're powerless.... even if they really are.
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From the first page of the Russia Invades Ukraine thread, dated August 15th - gosh, could it be that long ago?
I've cited that video to you multiple times, my comment:
"The realities of war: civilians suffer the most and deserve it the least. "
Hey look, I even mentioned you by name: "So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)"
I'm guessing you'll be disappearing back under your rock about now.
Yes, you were SO CONCERNED about it you actually said you couldn't give a shit. Yanno, there's a difference between describing something (the sun is going to rise tomorrow), and having an opinion. Your description - doesn't count as an opinion. Your OPINION - well, that does count as one. And your opinion? You couldn't give a shit. You said so yourself.
So, speaking of slimy things living under rocks - hi to the guy who doesn't give a shit about civilians on the 'wrong side'. Now go ooze back under the one you came out from under.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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This is not by any means an exhaustive reflection of G's statements indicating his moral code; after all, I have a life beyond responding to FFF.net.
Russia's actions, in comparison to the USA
Quote:
And we killed 100,000+ in Iraq, about 30,000 in Afghanistan, who knows how many in Libya, and helped set up the situation in Syria where 150,000+ were killed. So on your scale of civilian deaths USA >> Russia >> Kiev >> separatists. BTW, when I brought up deaths caused by the USA before, you thought bringing up other wars and other nations was off-topic. I'm glad to see that you're expanding your view. Maybe now you'll start addressing those other nations, including the USA.... And, if these are serious acts of aggression against Ukraine, does that mean that the USA is also committing serious acts of aggression against many other nations? -SIGNY
Truth of the matter is I am much more fascinated by Russia's involvement in all of this - not to the exclusion of everything else - but it is to me, of all the stories, the bigger story.
If I'm cheer-leading for anything it's for Russia to be held accountable for their invasion of a sovereign country. [As opposed to... the USA's invasions?-SIGNY]
Typical obvious weak "but USA, whaaaa..." dodge. 67th time?
This is so completely, blindingly illogical: "If we are "not fighting" all of those nations, then Russia is "not fighting" Ukraine." It's beyond a false parallel. If you want to play the intellectual you can't make those kinds of bonehead statements.
So, hundreds of thousands ... millions, over time .... of civilians killed by the USA, not such an interesting story! Nope, you're totally fixated by a phantom invasion. Like I said.... bodies stacked a mile high on one side of the ledger, an "invasion" that you have to dig really really deep to find any evidence for on the other, and which one is the real problem?
On Russia's actions as compared to Kiev's.
Quote:
Clearly, if one is being honest and only believes some of the reports, Russia is much more aggressive of the 2 and has acted illegally in so far as international law goes.
What Russia is doing is a much more interesting story than Ukraine's.
Because Russia has killed thousands of Ukrainians?
How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ...
Quote:
"And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev."
... and blaming the victim
Quote:
So Signy, Kiki. Who is to blame when such a civilian area gets hit by retaliatory fire (not to mention the civilian areas the separatists were firing at)?
Your response to the repeated question Do you support the shelling and killing of civilians to maintain a national boundary? Deflect, deflect, deflect and deflect
Quote:
Do you have any proof Ukrainian troops killed those citizens?
So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)
We love to try and kill each other because it's fun!
I'VE NEVER OWNED A BORDERS... BESIDES, BORDERS WENT OUT OF BUSINESS YEARS AGO. Keeping dead bodies in a Borders... creepy.
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
I am in favor of dead civilians - both sides, and especially innocent ones. Average people should be slaughtered enmass. Frankly, this world would be better without them..
And your view of other posters
Quote:
I respond because it gives me pleasure to tear down conceited types such as you and Signym.
Your moral ground is looking pretty squishy from this angle, G. I think you need to bring some rationality (to ratio properly, fair and objective comparisons) to your process. But first, you have to recognize your own biases.
Emailed to me by a friend:
Quote:
It has become common place for people to describe events and people they know nothing about. Our populace makes claims to knoNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
That about sums up RWED. People speaking as experts about stuff they no little or nothing about.
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This is the world 1kiki and Sig promote as ideal. Putin 
Obama
Russia's sole independent TV forced into meager studio
Alexander Zemlianichenko | Posted: Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:31 am 
In this photo taken on Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2014, camera assistants prepare equipment for an open air with Dozhd Channel's s anchorman Pavel Lobkov, background cenetr, in their studio-apartment in Moscow, Russia.Russia’s only independent TV channel, Dozhd, faced all sorts of pressure this year and while the government was careful not to shut it down, a Kremlin-instigated smear campaign is causing a slow demise of this rare independent broadcaster. (AP Photo/Alexander Zemlianichenko) http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/world/wire/russia-s-sole-independent
-tv-forced-into-meager-studio/image_1637f976-afc5-5a0d-81b2-4cd9a016120c.html
Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath
As many predicted it would do after Russia’s 2008 annexation of Ossetia and Abkhazia, it appears Russian success with aggression in Georgia has induced it to turn its eye toward an even juicier tidbit known, for now, as Ukraine.
http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/editorial-vladimir-putin-
raving-psychopath/
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Hmmm, let's see === a claim that the government is running a 'smear campaign' that's, somehow, causing Dozhd to fail --- no links, evidence or explanation === and an opinion piece that I'm to take a fact.
THUGR, posting from loony land - as always.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:Yanno, that's interesting because that is EXACTLY why my friend emailed me about ppl not knowing what they're talking about: Putin.
Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath
The comment was an introduction to an article on Putin, whom the author had met when Putin was just a small functionary in St Petersburg, obviously long before he became President of Russia. I'll quote you a few excerpts from the article, you can read the whole thing in the provided link:
Quote:
I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia, as did many of us working in St.Petersburg during the 1990s. Since all of the slander started, I've become nearly obsessed with understanding his character. I think I've read every major speech he has given (including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone "talk-ins" with Russian citizens). I've been trying to ascertain whether he has changed for the worse since being elevated to the presidency, or whether he is a straight character cast into a role he never anticipated––and is using sheer wits to try to do the best he can to deal with Washington under extremely difficult circumstances. If the latter is the case, and I think it is, he should get high marks for his performance over the past 14 years. It's not by accident that Forbes declared him the most Powerful Leader of 2013, replacing Obama who was given the title for 2012. The following is my one personal experience with Putin.
The year was 1992: It was two years after the implosion of communism; the place was St.Petersburg. For years I had been creating programs to open up relations between the two countries and hopefully to help Soviet people to get beyond their entrenched top-down mentalities. A new program possibility emerged in my head. Since I expected it might require a signature from the Marienskii City Hall, an appointment was made. My friend Volodya Shestakov and I showed up at a side door entrance to the Marienskii building. We found ourselves in a small, dull brown office, facing a rather trim nondescript man in a brown suit. He inquired about my reason for coming in. After scanning the proposal I provided he began asking intelligent questions. After each of my answers, he asked the next relevant question. I became aware that this interviewer was different from other Soviet bureaucrats who always seemed to fall into chummy conversations with foreigners with hopes of obtaining bribes in exchange for the Americans' requests. CCI stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor. After more than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about the proposal were uttered. That was all. He simply and kindly showed us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, "Volodya, this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who didn't ask us for a trip to the US or something valuable!" I remember looking at his business card in the sunlight––it read Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin....
March 2000: I arrived in St.Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, "Lena what do you think about your new president?" She laughed and retorted, "Volodya! I went to school with him!" She began to describe Putin as a quiet youngster, poor, fond of martial arts, who stood up for kids being bullied on the playgrounds. She remembered him as a patriotic youth who applied for the KGB prematurely after graduating secondary school (they sent him away and told him to get an education). He went to law school, later reapplied and was accepted. I must have grimaced at this, because Lena said, "Sharon in those days we all admired the KGB and believed that those who worked there were patriots and were keepNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
That about sums up RWED. People speaking as experts about stuff they no little or nothing about.
MAGONS, my PM function isn't working. Would you like to be on the email list? If so, is there some way we can get in touch?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Negative assumption #1
Example: "You have never said you don't eat babies, so I'll assume you do."
Truth is, as I have stated many times, just as you do (though you continue to think you are the only one who knows this) I already know about America's atrocities. It's actually old fucking news. Your stats, and accusations are not private knowledge. This is going to come as a shock to your ego... but people *besides yourself* actually read and comprehend what they are reading.
G, there's no "negative assumption" here. It's not that you neglected to say that you don't agree with USA policy, it's that you positively averred that you're just not interested in talking or thinking about it because it just doesn't have any moral weight with you. Here, you own words, underlined for emphasis:
Quote:
Truth of the matter is I am much more fascinated by Russia's involvement in all of this - not to the exclusion of everything else - but it is to me, of all the stories, the bigger story.
If I'm cheer-leading for anything it's for Russia to be held accountable for their invasion of a sovereign country. [As opposed to... the USA's invasions?-SIGNY]
Typical obvious weak "but USA, whaaaa..." dodge. 67th time?
This is so completely, blindingly illogical: "If we are "not fighting" all of those nations, then Russia is "not fighting" Ukraine." It's beyond a false parallel.
Quote:You "bitching endlessly" about Russia is... what, again?
Unlike you I realize that bitching endlessly on a forum is not action - it's pandering if anything. You will effect no change posting here. Maybe you don't let yourself understand that to protect your ego?
Quote:
Maybe you think no one should be interested in what Russia is doing? That seems to be what you are advocating. So maybe we should have a forum that only posts about the US atrocities then and nothing eles, nothing about Firefly just All US, All Bad, all the time? Maybe you should start a tv channel?-G
No, I just think that your hyperfocus on proving a particular point reflects your bias.
Quote:
68th time: because I don't know their story very well - it's the freedom to be curious. Maybe we should outlaw certain kinds of curiosity? Please tell me what I can be interested in. Are you sure you aren't Russian? You have certain parallel traits about restricting what people can be interested in.
I'm not telling you that you can't be interested in what Russia is doing. Heck, I'm interested in what Russia is doing. So, did you listen to the international press conference in Valdai? Catch any of Putin's State of the State before the Russian Assembly (Duma)? Listen to a little bit of the press conference that Putin just gave to over 2000 reporters, where he discussed such things as Moscow hospitals and parking? Read any of the link that I posted? Watch the (foreign) news for Russian international business deals?
You see, G, unlike you, I really am interested in what Russia is doing. You're not interested in that, your main goal is to prove a point.
Quote:
And now for the mother of all negative presumptions, the lie that keeps on giving:
How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ... -SIGNY
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.- G
In context, if you are honest (!) it was clear I didn't give a shit about Kiev propaganda - keep spinning though - it only shows your desperation. Go ahead, find this exchange:
"How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ..."
You can't because it didn't happen, because you made it up. It's not even a good lie.
Here is your original statement in context:
Quote:
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath
You, THUGR, are doing exactly what my friend described. The reality is, you don't know shit about Putin. You've never met the man, you've never listened to people who HAVE worked with him (including the US Consul General who is quoted liberally in this article), you haven't listened to his speeches or read anything of his history or what he's done. All you know is what the press had hammered in your head for the past six months: Putin is a bad, bad man, An evil man. A megalomaniac. A tyrant. A despot wanting to take over the world
It would probably help you if actually learned something of which you opine so freely.
Funny how you can state I know nothing about Putin because I have never researched him at all. That's just a convenient assumption written by you to dismiss what I have posted. I only jump into the conversation on occasion to give you a poke in the eye. I enjoy it. I certainly do not expect a reasonable or honest response from you.
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So, what IS your knowledge of Putin? The reason why I assume that you don't know anything about him is because you haven't revealed any knowledge of him.
Do you know, for example, WHY Yeltsin appointed him? It's an interesting story that gets even more interesting with research.
You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, what IS your knowledge of Putin? The reason why I assume that you don't know anything about him is because you haven't revealed any knowledge of him.
Do you know, for example, WHY Yeltsin appointed him? It's an interesting story that gets even more interesting with research.
You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.
My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.
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Quote:Wow, you sure do know a lot, THUGR!
My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.
You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Wow, you sure do know a lot, THUGR!
My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.
You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.
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What, you thought by asking I would waste my time giving a comprehensive and thorough report on Putin, just for you to dismiss it as nonsense? Have you learned nothing about me yet?
Here is my report, fuck you comrade. Here is a history lesson. After World War 11 there was a place called the Soviet Union. All that is left 65 years later is a place called Russia which is still being criticized and sanctioned by the rest of the world. In another forty or so years Russia will have a free and democratic government and the bullshit will end.
Comrade
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Saw the press conferences or read about them - naturally you assume otherwise - because *only Signym* knows or cares - what a pure ego f*ck you are.
I too watched Putin's 3 hr. press conference. It was not unexpected for him to blame America for all their woes and to play to the countries patriotism to fall in line with what he is doing. I saw people from Russia interviewed and the problem is not that they really believe Putin, it is more that they think every government does nothing but lie. Hence why Sig is the way she is. Any doubt she is Russian?
It was also not unexpected that Facebook caved and will not allow Russians who support Putin's nemesis to view a page dedicated to him. The guy who owns Facebook is a real creep. Someone else I would like to see go away.
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A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. In the case of Sig, we all see what is desired by her. To support her beloved Russia at all costs. One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.
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1 2 3 4..
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Quote:Well, they were very long! So, did you see them, or just read "about" them?
Saw the press conferences or read about them - naturally you assume otherwise - because *only Signym* knows or cares - what a pure ego f*ck you are.-G
Quote:To quote Geezer: Cites please? Because, yanno, everything that you wrote that I could find says the opposite.
You don't care about Kiev killing thousands of civilians and displacing a million. -SIGNY
I care more than you do. I was the first to post about it.-G
Quote:Well, you sure have a funny way of showing it! You don't write about it, you don't complain about it, and every time I bring it up, you dismiss it. I point to your quotes as evidence. But, if you have posted to the contrary, I again quote Geezer: Cites please?
You don't care about the USA killing millions of civilians.-SIGNY
I care way, way more than you do on that one.-G
Quote:No, you nitwit, I quoted you. Just like you asked for. ("I'll wait patently while you Make Shit Up Again, er, I mean check. Go on - find it!")
No, the REAL story is that whatever Russia does is bad. Bad, bad, bad! By comparison, the USA and Kiev are so uninteresting you can hardly be bothered to think about them.-SIGNY
Signym likes to tell other people what they are thinking - how does she do it? Oh, she makes shit up!
In your own words. I thought you expressed yourself quite well pretty much all the way around!
No interpretation on my part needed.
Right now, all you're doing is blah-blah-blah. And more blah-blah-blah. What a waste of time.
Anyway, I think it's time we closed this particular line in the thread with a Merry Xmas, and I hope you have a wonderful holiday.
If anyone has anything to post on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, I would be very happy to read about if after Xmas.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Post Christmas bump.
Musta' been some x-mas
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Originally posted by THGRRI:
A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. In the case of Sig, we all see what is desired by her. To support her beloved Russia at all costs. One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.
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Are you not ashamed to be so publicly ignorant about so many topics?
https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Originally posted by THGRRI:
A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.
Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. In the case of Sig, we all see what is desired by her. To support her beloved Russia at all costs. One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.
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Are you not ashamed to be so publicly ignorant about so many topics?
https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
What I don't get is why you are so anti-gay. I understand you being against free speech, but hatin' on the LGBT community just doesn't make sense - unless going backwards is the plan. Revisiting the Soviet past maybe?
Well, I hate to quote myself, but I will ...
Quote:G, whatever I said about you was based on what you said. I don't intend to rehash your quotes as nauseum because, yanno, it only reinforces what I said. But if you have something to say on the original topic, I'd be interested in discussing it.
Anyway, I think it's time we closed this particular line in the thread with a Merry Xmas, and I hope you have a wonderful holiday.
If anyone has anything to post on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, I would be very happy to read about if after Xmas.
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Quote:Oh, you mean like ....
One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.
Quote:
What I don't get is why you are so anti-gay. I understand you being against free speech, but hatin' on the LGBT community just doesn't make sense - unless going backwards is the plan. Revisiting the Soviet past maybe? -G
OR...
Quote:
A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.-THUGR
The funny thing is, the person who whined the loudest about me "making shit up" (and who seems terribly invested in running away from what he wrote) ... makes shit up. The person who whinges the most about me casting aspersions... casts aspersions.
That's all I'm going to say on that topic to you.
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" Many sociopaths are delusional to the point where they believe that their lies are the truth."
1kiki to a T
Nailed it !
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Looks like he publicly nailed it to me - from your link:
"...manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve one's goals."
I had MANY potential sources for people to educate themselves. Did you cherry pick just one? And also - Who 'he'? You? KPO? THUGR? Rappy? Obama? Limbaugh? Bush (Jr and Sr)?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I had MANY potential sources for people to educate themselves. Did you cherry pick just one? And also - Who 'he'? You? KPO? THUGR? Rappy? Obama? Limbaugh? Bush (Jr and Sr)?
You posted one link 1kiki to the definition of what a sociopath is. So now you turn to subjective posting. You really are fucked up.
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You are so fucking stupid it's not even funny. I posted the link to a google search. https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath That result has 'About 4,980,000 results (0.16 seconds)'. And out of ALL THAT, you says there's only one result. That makes you about (4,980,000 - 1) (0.16 seconds) times stupid.
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Oh, and rappy - aside from being a perv and a liar, I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard 'there's something seriously wrong with that boy'.
Your mother knew. Sadness in her when she waved goodbye, but she's relieved. Saw
darkness in you. You're not well.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You are so fucking stupid it's not even funny. I posted the link to a google search. https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath That result has 'About 4,980,000 results (0.16 seconds)'. And out of ALL THAT, you says there's only one result. That makes you about (4,980,000 - 1) (0.16 seconds) times stupid.
Unlike you I realize that once someone follows the link one definition will be chosen and read. Anyone(you)who thinks more than one definition or dictionary needs to be read explaining what a sociopath is, is a moron. Or in your case, someone who is covering their tracks by suggesting that if others looked further somehow the meaning would change, favoring your assumption that it does not apply to you and SIG. Again nothing but subjective posting.
The first one is what I chose the first time and again this time. In other words you led me right back to where I got my definition in the first place, STUPID.
Here it is again.
"Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others".
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Quote:
Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.
And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.
Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.
You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.
In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.
You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.
How will you live your life?
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm
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Unlike you I realize that once someone follows the link one definition will be chosen and read. Anyone(you)who thinks more than one definition or dictionary needs to be read explaining what a sociopath is, is a moron.
That's strange, because whole books have been written about the topic, that populate whole sections of libraries, and I've read roughly a dozen of them. brain function. brain structure. genetics. tests for. behavior. sociology of. prison population.
If you want an intro, read Hare. He literally wrote the book on the topic.
But yeah - you? Nearly 5 million results and you claimed: "You posted one link 1kiki to the definition ..." And then you doubled down on your own stupidity by saying well ANYbody would only read one. No - YOU would only read one out of 5 million. So you? Still a fucking moron. And so damn stupid you can't even admit you were wrong saying there was the definition when the were many definitions and literally millions of facts. Something obvious to everyone else - but you.
Apologies to morons for having to be included with you.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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How will you live your life?
snark removed
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Speaking with the two of you is like speaking to a 
Anyone who waists time trying to change your perspective on an issue is not to bright themselves. No, I just like to pop in and state the obvious then move on.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:
Unlike you I realize that once someone follows the link one definition will be chosen and read. Anyone(you)who thinks more than one definition or dictionary needs to be read explaining what a sociopath is, is a moron.
That's strange, because whole books have been written about the topic, that populate whole sections of libraries, and I've read roughly a dozen of them. brain function. brain structure. genetics. tests for. behavior. sociology of. prison population.
If you want an intro, read Hare. He literally wrote the book on the topic.
But yeah - you? Nearly 5 million results and you claimed: "You posted one link 1kiki to the definition ..." And then you doubled down on your own stupidity by saying well ANYbody would only read one. No - YOU would only read one out of 5 million. So you? Still a fucking moron. And so damn stupid you can't even admit you were wrong saying there was the definition when the were many definitions and literally millions of facts. Something obvious to everyone else - but you.
Apologies to morons for having to be included with you.
From the thread title, who could have foreseen that it would devolve into quibbling and bickering between resident psychopaths?
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And you've learned so little you don't understand the difference in terms.
Great. Another opining village idiot.
Get in line with THUGR as one more useless piece of flesh.
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Holy cripes on toast, this thread is a clusterfuck.
So I'm going to pour more fuel on the fire. And be surprisingly on topic.
Would it surprise any of you if I said that technically I don't think anyone who has posted before now in this thread qualifies under definitions of sociopathy? Some of you might be extreme in terms of ideology, some of you I might disagree with in terms of moral choices you've made or might be going to make. But I view all of YOU as fundamentally human.
Having a desire for control over one's surroundings and having a personalized perspective on what people are or what they are saying doesn't make someone a sociopath.
Hell, even not necessarily caring about strangers doesn't make someone a sociopath - sometimes you just don't have any money or any way to help a begger, and sometimes you just want to curl up with your cat for a while at home instead of deal with people. Sometimes you want to feel safe. That's fairly standard human behaviour. Most people can't be always on 100% of the time.
"I'm right, I'm justified, you're WRONG" is not sociopathy. However, it might be black and white thinking or splitting - which it seems a lot of you have been doing lately. Disagreeing on one thing suddenly changes whether or not someone is a bad or good person in your estimation.
Hey, it happens. In the heat of the moment, everyone does that. *I*'ve done that. And when I got especially ticked off, I turned self-destructive and started burning bridges - much like what we're seeing here in this thread from two people who except for Russia aren't that different in their beliefs.
Sociopathy is when you're willing to exploit or betray even people who are close to you, who you've known for years who have helped you and been kind to you, friends and family. Getting ahead at their severe detriment and your benefit and all the justifications about how you're right to do so. Whether for short-term gains, long-term gains, or the hell of it, the sociopath is ALWAYS thinking about themselves or how they can benefit themselves. Not sometimes when they're too tired or sick to do otherwise. Always.
Yes, they can care about people, yes they can have feelings for people (a scorned and rejected sociopath is terrifying to behold), sometimes, despite what most of the literature says, they can even regret what they are and what they do, even if they can't change.
But when they care about other people? They're thinking of it as a reciprocal exchange. They think of it as the other person owing them, and they see it as consequently that they OWN the other person.
Some of them become so bad (and are usually in such a high social position) that they start to think the whole WORLD owes them, and so they OWN the world. That's where you start to get problems.
Yes, our society feeds it a little by dividing people so strongly on political and ideological bases. When a person gives themselves up to a cause, they start seeing people on the other side as less human, and give up some of their own humanity in the process. But that is still not sociopathy. A person can still recover from that - provided they stop thinking about how right they are, and stop thinking about how the ends justify the means or about how this is all for the greater good, and stop thinking about how they've been hurt by others, and start thinking about how they're affecting other people. To do otherwise is to enable the REAL sociopaths.
Source: Your friendly neighborhood psycho nutjob.
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FWIW Byte -
the only people throwing around the 'sociopath' accusation are JSF, G and THUGR.
And - welcome back to the cesspool! How ya doing?
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Holy cripes on toast, this thread is a clusterfuck.
So I'm going to pour more fuel on the fire. And be surprisingly on topic.
Would it surprise any of you if I said that technically I don't think anyone who has posted before now in this thread qualifies under definitions of sociopathy? Some of you might be extreme in terms of ideology, some of you I might disagree with in terms of moral choices you've made or might be going to make. But I view all of YOU as fundamentally human.
Having a desire for control over one's surroundings and having a personalized perspective on what people are or what they are saying doesn't make someone a sociopath.
Hell, even not necessarily caring about strangers doesn't make someone a sociopath - sometimes you just don't have any money or any way to help a begger, and sometimes you just want to curl up with your cat for a while at home instead of deal with people. Sometimes you want to feel safe. That's fairly standard human behaviour. Most people can't be always on 100% of the time.
"I'm right, I'm justified, you're WRONG" is not sociopathy. However, it might be black and white thinking or splitting - which it seems a lot of you have been doing lately. Disagreeing on one thing suddenly changes whether or not someone is a bad or good person in your estimation.
Hey, it happens. In the heat of the moment, everyone does that. *I*'ve done that. And when I got especially ticked off, I turned self-destructive and started burning bridges - much like what we're seeing here in this thread from two people who except for Russia aren't that different in their beliefs.
Sociopathy is when you're willing to exploit or betray even people who are close to you, who you've known for years who have helped you and been kind to you, friends and family. Getting ahead at their severe detriment and your benefit and all the justifications about how you're right to do so. Whether for short-term gains, long-term gains, or the hell of it, the sociopath is ALWAYS thinking about themselves or how they can benefit themselves. Not sometimes when they're too tired or sick to do otherwise. Always.
Yes, they can care about people, yes they can have feelings for people (a scorned and rejected sociopath is terrifying to behold), sometimes, despite what most of the literature says, they can even regret what they are and what they do, even if they can't change.
But when they care about other people? They're thinking of it as a reciprocal exchange. They think of it as the other person owing them, and they see it as consequently that they OWN the other person.
Some of them become so bad (and are usually in such a high social position) that they start to think the whole WORLD owes them, and so they OWN the world. That's where you start to get problems.
Yes, our society feeds it a little by dividing people so strongly on political and ideological bases. When a person gives themselves up to a cause, they start seeing people on the other side as less human, and give up some of their own humanity in the process. But that is still not sociopathy. A person can still recover from that - provided they stop thinking about how right they are, and stop thinking about how the ends justify the means or about how this is all for the greater good, and stop thinking about how they've been hurt by others, and start thinking about how they're affecting other people. To do otherwise is to enable the REAL sociopaths.
Source: Your friendly neighborhood psycho nutjob.
Yes to all of the above.
Internet trolls seem to have some of the sociopathic tendancies, and by trolls i mean the kind of people who torment parents who have lost children by posting obscenities on memorial pages, not some of the nuff nuffs on this board who quote shock jock lines verbatim.
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"nuff nuffs"?
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"Used in a derogatory way to describe idiots who behave as if they never received an education or to decribe a person who behaves in a way that contradicts their IQ level."
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What I've read is about psychopaths is not that they seem to be especially adept, it's more like they have something missing.
They're probably not very common ... 1:100 is the generally quoted figure ... but in a world of 7 billion people, that's 70 million psychopaths. In the USA, that's 3.4 million. On this board, there may be one.
Out of 3.4 million psychopaths in the USA, most will only be capable of bringing chaos to their family and co-workers, the people immediately around them. But out of that many, there are probably a few who are capable of much more grandiose plans, who have special talents for specific things. I read an interesting study about the psychological makeup of robber barons (Carnegie etc.) derived from personal observations by the people around them. I wish I could find it now because it was a detailed description of what motivates people to extreme acquisition. They were cold, unmotivated by human connection, unfeeling towards family and society but extremely motivated by the "game" aspects of what they were doing. To them, money wasn't a goal, it was a marker. They had a visceral connection to what they're doing: George Soros, he just gets feelings in his stomach about currencies. Ayn Rand wrote lovesick stories about psychopaths because she was in love with one. Bill Gates' behavior was abnormal ... didn't wash, didn't look at people, rocked so violently at times that he would bang his head on table. So it's as if they exist on two axes: disconnection from people, and talent for acquisition.
Also, our society rewards psychopathy and "attenuation of empathy". And in some cases, I believe that the children of the ultra-wealthy, and those who attain some power are deliberately conditioned towards psychopathy.
The problem is that it's a positive feedback situation: Rewards put more power into the hands of the psychopath (or the truly conditioned), who then gear the society to provide even more power and more rewards. It's the source of the concept that I've been saying for years: Power concentrates But, it only concentrates because some people are geared to concentrate it: they have the intention, lack of restraint, and capability to snowball a small advantage into an unimaginable one.
Just one more thing: People can do some truly awful things because of what is called "the division of responsibility". I think that's how we wind up in a truly psychopathic system.
Anyway, I think it's probably very hard for us to get into the brainspace of a true psychopath - like it's very difficult to truly understand a schizophrenic or a person on the autistic spectrum - which is one of the reasons we don't do anything about their influence on our lives. It's almost impossible to credit that there really are people "like that", particularly as psychopaths are usually good at presenting the appearance of normalcy (most of the time).
Do you think it would help if we TAUGHT, as part of a curriculum, that some people think and behave very differently, and perhaps also teach some effective responses? It might work to reduce bullying, and it might also reduce the conflict and confusion that psychopaths tend to inject into other people's lives.
Oh, and sorry for the fight that crossed this thread. As you probably figured, it was really a continuation from several other threads. I have this cartoon image of two characters rolling around in a ball of fight, rolling across one room, bursting through a door into another room, rolling across THAT floor, and exiting thru another door while the remaining (uninvolved) characters look on in bemusement. I've been on this board long enough; you'd think I'd know enough by now not to get baited into an off-topic fight.
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Fwiw, there's been lots of baiting going on lately amigo.
You mean like this?
No one on this site thinks that way.
I love how you create this "other" group, this peasant class "basket," that you try to put everyone into who doesn't think like you no matter how you have to lie or defame or twist the facts. Who's the psychopath??? I definitely know who your vassal is.
This?
You're showing the typical sociopath tendency to not recognize individuals.
This?
As your 12 year old self would say: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
This?
Pssst... Signym...she (Magons) could easily be talking about you.
Just a VERY small example of your very LARGE contribution to that whole 'baiting' thing. So when you say there's been a lot of baiting going on lately - I hope you're looking in the mirror - buddy.
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FWIW Magon's, the only person I consider a sociopath here is rappy. He's not a fool but he's certainly willing to play one for the sole purpose of manipulating a response.
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Quote:
Just a VERY small example of your very LARGE contribution to that whole 'baiting' thing. So when you say there's been a lot of baiting going on lately - I hope you're looking in the mirror - buddy.
I think he was. That's speaking for him, but I took that as a tongue in cheek jab at himself and an effort to mend things a little.
That's the reason I started posting as well. I wandered back here out of curiosity, and lo and behold - a thread about psychopathy, something I find interesting and something that, yes, I still kind of think I have. But when I get in here I was kinda shocked by just how heated the board had gotten. It's been serious in the past before, but wow.
I just thought I should say something and try to help things around here a little, just out of the memory of the place I used to post so much. It was kinda hard watching two people who I thought used to get along pretty well just tear into each other.
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Quote:
I think you are throwing that word around too loosely. I mean, seriously - "I believe that the children of the ultra-wealthy, and those who attain some power are deliberately conditioned towards psychopathy." Really? Who's manipulating these people toward that?
Their private (somewhat abusive) schools and their parents to be honest... There is a sort of win/get ahead at any cost attitude that seems to be common among the privileged. They're told they're the best of the best, and that they have to COMPETE with the best of the best.
It's not JUST contained to them, it happens at all levels of society, of course, and competition and ambition aren't always bad things. But there's a certain application of a competitive ambitious drive that can make a person act more self-interested and less compassionate, even willing to make horrible sacrifices, and it can take a while for some of them to snap out of it, if they ever do. That's why you end up with so many former business cutthroat multi-billionaire philanthropists in their 50s and 60s, they feel compelled to make up for some of what they did I think.
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It's funny, because I was just scanning thru headlines (as I usually do in the AM) and found this example on BBC of a person who was trained to be a sociopath and then rejected that training:
Quote:
We can learn a lot about the art of living from Tolstoy's War and Peace - a 10-hour dramatisation of which is airing on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday. It acutely observes vanity and folly, sexual jealousy and family relationships. But we can also learn from the life of the master novelist himself, writes Roman Krznaric.
Tolstoy, who was born in 1828 and died in 1910, was a member of the Russian nobility, from a family that owned an estate and hundreds of serfs. The early life of the young count was raucous, debauched and violent.
"I killed men in wars and challenged men to duels in order to kill them," he wrote. "I lost at cards, consumed the labour of the peasants, sentenced them to punishments, lived loosely, and deceived people … so I lived for ten years."
However, he changed himself ....
Quote:
But he gradually weaned himself off his decadent, racy lifestyle and rejected the received beliefs of his aristocratic background, adopting a radical, unconventional worldview that shocked his peers. So how exactly might his personal journey help us rethink our own philosophies of life?
1. Keep an open mind
One of Tolstoy's greatest gifts was his ability and willingness to change his mind based on new experiences. The horrific bloodshed he witnessed while fighting in the Crimean War in the 1850s turned him into a lifelong pacifist. In 1857, after seeing a public execution by guillotine in Paris - he never forgot the thump of the severed head as it fell into the box below - he became a convinced opponent of the state and its laws, believing that governments were not only brutal, but essentially served the interests of the rich and powerful. "The State is a conspiracy," he wrote to a friend. "Henceforth, I shall never serve any government anywhere." Tolstoy was on the road to becoming an anarchist. He would be the first to encourage us to question the fundamental beliefs and dogmas we have been brought up with.
line
2. Practise empathy
Tolstoy displayed an unusual capacity to empathise by stepping into the shoes of people whose lives were vastly different from his own. In the 1860s, he not only adopted peasant dress but began working alongside the newly emancipated labourers on his estate, ploughing the fields and repairing their homes with his own hands. For a blue-blooded count, such actions were nothing short of remarkable. Although no doubt tinged with paternalism, he enjoyed the company of peasants and consciously shunned the literary and aristocratic elite in the cities. Tolstoy believed you could never understand the reality of other people's lives unless you had a taste of it yourself.
3. Make a difference
He also distinguished himself from his upper class peers by taking practical action to alleviate other people's suffering, most evident in his famine relief work. After the crop failure of 1873, Tolstoy stopped writing Anna Karenina for a year to organise aid for the starving, remarking to a relative: "I cannot tear myself away from living creatures to bother about imaginary ones." His friends and family thought it was crazy for one of the world's finest novelists to put one of his works of genius on the backburner. He did it again following the famine in 1891, spending two years working in soup kitchens and fundraising. Can you imagine a bestselling author today setting aside their latest book to do humanitarian relief work for two years?
4. Master the art of simple living
Following a mental breakdown in the late 1870s, Tolstoy rejected all organised religion, including the Orthodox Church he had grown up in. He adopted a revolutionary brand of Christianity based on spiritual and material austerity. He gave up drinking, smoking, and became a vegetarian. He also inspired the creation of utopian communitiesNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Pity there were not more of his ilk in Russia. Faster social change may have prevented later bloodshed, or at least reduced its scale.
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The funny thing is, I forced myself to read Anna Karenina when I was in college and it was excruciatingly boring. Awful. I just couldn't make my way through the book.
None of Tolstoy's apparent genuine good spirit came through: he was writing about some Russian nobility who lived pointless uninteresting lives (as far as I can tell) who were tortured by the conflict between their authentic desires and their social function- in Anna's case apparently it was to walk with "light, quick steps" (that phrase must have been repeated once every six or seven pages! I wanted to shoot the translator. Didn't he or she have access to a thesaurus?) and to remain a lightly cynical conversationalist for the amusement of the rest of her class. Maybe if I read it all the way to the end, I would appreciate it more.
We used to have a poster here, DREAMTROVE, who had many interesting things to say. It was kind of hard to pin down his background- according to him he was a tomato farmer with connections to some very old-money family somewhere on the Hudson River, and he had been "treated" in Europe for some unspecified mental illness. (I always thought that his thinking was a bit looser than most. Many of the connections that he made were kind of "out there", but he would hit on some genuinely brilliant insights that have stood the test of time.)
In any case, we were talking about "the wealthy" then, and how they're different from everyone else, and DREAMTROVE made the very definite point that "the wealthy" really are raised very differently from everyone else. To RAPPY's point that "the wealthy" have earned their wealth, DREAMTROVE responded that most of the wealthy got their wealth the old-fashioned way: They inherited it. And even if they have less money than the rest of their class, they have connections, through schools, families, and associations ... connections that the average person simply doesn't have.
The other point that he made is that the wealthy are bored, and that in order to be an appreciated member of the upper crust, one must be amusing. I wish I could remember the rest of what he posted, it was an interesting take and it seemed to describe a milieu that none of us would have any insight on.
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I remember him. The last post he made was that his sister had died of cancer and he was dreadfully upset, feeling she had been killed by the doctors.
He certainly was out there, but we had some interesting conversations. I seem to remember he was obsessed with eugenics.
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I have to admit to never reading Tolstoy, the size and the patronymics were something of a deterrence.
I do love Chekov though, who wrote about the same class and the same ennui.
The idea that great wealth is available to anyone who wants it enough is the modern equivelent of an after life paradise being available to anyone who wants it enough. It keeps people in hope, who otherwise probably should be rioting in the street over their circumstances. Or at least plotting the overthrow of the overlords.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
some good points in this thread
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