Planned Parenthood leader quits after watching abortion, Obama murders his grandbabies
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Friday, November 6, 2009 02:06
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www.breitbart.tv/planned-parenthood-leader-resigns-after-watching-ultr
asound-of-abortion-procedure/
Death penalty by denial of due process hearing
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wedge issue, but this is no surprise. Read what Roe of Roe v Wade says about it. Her story is that the whole court case was a sham, and she was railroaded, they wanted a test case, and told her what to say, coached her, and then afterwards she was disgusted with herself.
The fact is that whatever you may think about RTL as an issue, the law was made by the ZPG crowd. Who was it you just posted as saying that 250 million was a good population size for the Earth? I want to keep a list of these people.
Planned Parenthood is a pretty well known fascist organization, and probably responsible for me: They told my mother not to have more children because she had had a handicapped child, so she had me to defy them. And her a sound feminist and democrat. But what do you expect from Margaret Sanger.
Obama's science czar is one of these goons too, We should make a list.
David Rockefeller: The world population should be reduced by about 2/3
Nick Rockefeller: To achieve a sustainable population of 1 billion, 5 billion will have to die. Who cares how they die?
John Holdren, Obama's science czar, who favors mandatory abortion for single mothers and mass sterilization programs in the third world: Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution
Ah, here it is:
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
-Ted Turner,
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She was only watching it on an ultrasound screen, not the actual bloody mess table.
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Ooooh, this thread is going to explode.
I'll just reiterate my stance that 1) killing people and taking away choice in regards to family size (either for larger OR smaller) is a dark, dark road, and 2) we do need some efforts at managing impact and sustainability, though I remain unconvinced population control measures should be part of that. I maintain faith in technology that we can both reduce our impact, better support our growing population, and reduce suffering.
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Yeah, she saw the light and became religious. Some peeps see Jesus in a tree bole. Others think god is going to reward them with 72 virgins in paradise if they off themselves for their religion. There are nut-jobs all over the world. What's one more?
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Those fascist ZPG people are so good at what they're doing - that the world now has 7B people, and growing.
I don't think they're going to take over the world on this issue any time soon and exterminate the human race.
Do any of YOU think so ?
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Re Johnson - additionally, her husband and parents were extremely religiously conservative and anti-choice. And she received numerous death threats over many years, not just against her, but against her husband and daughter as well.
I suspect that after a certain amount of time she developed Stockholm syndrome.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yeah, she saw the light and became religious. Some peeps see Jesus in a tree bole. Others think god is going to reward them with 72 virgins in paradise if they off themselves for their religion. There are nut-jobs all over the world. What's one more?
That's why we tolerate you , StickyNymph...
'Cause we will always make space for one more nutjob such as yourself...
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Out2Lunch
You realize you have about as much credibility as PN, right ?
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
wedge issue, but this is no surprise. Read what Roe of Roe v Wade says about it. Her story is that the whole court case was a sham, and she was railroaded, they wanted a test case, and told her what to say, coached her, and then afterwards she was disgusted with herself.
The fact is that whatever you may think about RTL as an issue, the law was made by the ZPG crowd. Who was it you just posted as saying that 250 million was a good population size for the Earth? I want to keep a list of these people.
Planned Parenthood is a pretty well known fascist organization, and probably responsible for me: They told my mother not to have more children because she had had a handicapped child, so she had me to defy them. And her a sound feminist and democrat. But what do you expect from Margaret Sanger.
Obama's science czar is one of these goons too, We should make a list.
David Rockefeller: The world population should be reduced by about 2/3
Nick Rockefeller: To achieve a sustainable population of 1 billion, 5 billion will have to die. Who cares how they die?
John Holdren, Obama's science czar, who favors mandatory abortion for single mothers and mass sterilization programs in the third world: Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution
Ah, here it is:
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
-Ted Turner,
Here's another one for you , D-T !
If you haven't read it already , you'll enjoy it :
American Stonehenge: Monumental Instructions for the Post-Apocalypse
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones
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[snark] Yep, we can always count on insightful, topical feedback from O2B. Thanks for focusing on the issues. [/snark] 
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"American Stonehenge: Monumental Instructions for the Post-Apocalypse
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones"
Ooooh goody !
Now we're REALLY discussing reality here !
Aren't we, Out2Lunch ?
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So, anyone care to discuss how it is that the all-powerful fascist ZPG people have been so good at what they do, and are SO close to taking over the world that the planet now has 7B people ?
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You realize you have about as much credibility as PN, right ?
Sure...
That's a compliment , actually , though a touch back-handed...
For whatever else he's worth , at least he's an advocate of Free Speech , unlike you and your little neo-Commie gang...
At least he digs around and publishes his information...Not all of it passes muster , of course , but at least he advocates for the Freedom of Mind and Conscience over in utero infanticide , the Ultimate Rape of Beautiful Minds and Tiny Defenseless Bodies Human...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ooooh, this thread is going to explode.
I'll just reiterate my stance that 1) killing people and taking away choice in regards to family size (either for larger OR smaller) is a dark, dark road, and 2) we do need some efforts at managing impact and sustainability, though I remain unconvinced population control measures should be part of that. I maintain faith in technology that we can both reduce our impact, better support our growing population, and reduce suffering.
Yup , looks a mite explodey !
So , you're saying that you are a person of faith , then ?
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"American Stonehenge: Monumental Instructions for the Post-Apocalypse
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones"
Ooooh goody !
Now we're REALLY discussing reality here !
Aren't we, Out2Lunch ?
You and Sticky aren't...But , the rest of us may take the train a little further...
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"For whatever else he's worth , at least he's an advocate of Free Speech , unlike you and your little neo-Commie gang..."
Are you trying to claim yet again that Kwicko tried to have you banned from the site ?
Prove it.
Just so we all know that you're not lying, again.
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So, does anyone have anything RATIONAL to say that's on-topic ?
BTW, I'm still waiting for ideas on how it it is the all-powerful ZPG people let the world end up with 7B people.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Those fascist ZPG people are so good at what they're doing - that the world now has 7B people, and growing.
I don't think they're going to take over the world on this issue any time soon and exterminate the human race.
Do any of YOU think so ?
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I don't actually know who the ZPG are. Whee, buzzwords!
Abortion has killed far fewer people than the big wars have, so I still see war as the PRIMARY mode of population reduction in action right now.
So, to explain, I think we (America and Europe, where most of the globalist ideas are coming from) have intentionally destabilized some regions to reduce population. Africa and the Middle East are good examples; I think we're working our way over to Pakistan, who will then fight with India. DT told me that one and I think it fits well with the pattern.
I'm also waiting for the moment China bursts into civil war, the discontented workers against the more affluent students and party. When that happens, we're going to probably be nudging the situation worse and worse, then America is likely to try to send in force to "keep the peace" aaaand with the purging.
That'll be a lot of people dead if that course follows through.
So basically, to answer your questions, the people with a population reduction agenda might be incompetent 'cause this is a pretty dumb ass idea in the first place likely to backfire in their faces. And no, I don't think they're going to exterminate the entire human race, though I think they're incredibly selfish and unethical. But I think population reduction is real and I don't think we've seen the worst side of it yet.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So, does anyone have anything RATIONAL to say that's on-topic ?
Not that anyone's likely to pay much attention, as I've posted this sort of thing before and been blown off, but: I would really like to point out, again, that Planned Parenthood does far more than abortions, and if more women took more advantage of their myriad other services, they probably wouldn't need that one. I have been going to Planned Parenthood for years. Yes, years. And not ever to have an abortion. I went to educate myself, to have a basic exam, and to be provided with birth control pills. They have offered all the information and advice I could want. They have given me fair prices on the visits and the pills. Since I don't have anything close to decent health care coverage, I wouldn't have been able to get those exams or that birth control without them. Since I could, thanks to them, I have remained healthy and baby-free until such time as I'm actually ready for one. I couldn't express how grateful I am to them for allowing me to live my life. Painting them as a strictly 'abortion clinic' is ludicrous and in all ways false. Painting them as actual advocates of abortion is some ways beyond that. They advocate choice and they offer it, but if you've ever actually talked to a nurse there, abortion is the last choice they want to offer you. It's not only the most trying, it's the most expensive. They would always, always advise actual birth control before abortion, and to deny that is simple lunacy.
[/sig]
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I don't have any problem with Planned Parenthood the organization, and I don't think we can do anything about abortions, I don't think we can do much if a woman decides she doesn't want to carry to term. It'd be great if every child ever conceived could have the chance to live, no matter what socio-economic conditions they're born into, heck, I might even say that as craptacular as things can be everyone should be so lucky. Living, even with suffering, must certainly be better than nothingness. But this isn't a utopia, women get raped and child birth can have complications, and sometimes things do get bad enough you have to wonder what is merciful.
Just think we might need to watch if any groups are specifically being targeted for reproductive discouragement, and also to watch the people who might be using these organizations for other agendas.
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If you Google the story you get several articles and different interpretations of the story depending on the source. Personally, I find the whole thing quite suspect. One day she's an active PP director, and then the next day she's advocating for a right to life group? That is beyond the pale to believe. Human beings don't turn that fast on a dime, unless they're a trailing-in-the-polls politician.
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Byte
ZPG stands for Zero Population Growth.
Africa, China, the Middle East, India, Pakistan - and you forgot South and Central America - ALL have positive - even explosive - population growth. Yes, even Subsaharan Africa with its AIDS epidemic. (WIKI - "The population of sub-Saharan Africa was 800 million in 2007.[26] The current growth rate is 2.3%. The UN predicts for the region a population of nearly 1.5 billion in 2050.[27])
Remember the Gulf war ? The one originally called by that name, the one between Iran and Iraq ? The one that was supposed to have decimated both populations ? BOTH countries have more people than ever.
And those globalists ? How do you think they are controlling China, I wonder ?
Your concerns that 'globalists' (whoever they are) are somehow behind a shadowy move the depopulate the planet - DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY - borders on paranoia.
GIVEN ALL THE FACTS I would like you to explain EXACTLY
1) who you think the 'globalists' are
2) how you think are they managing (or not managing, in this case) to reduce the planet's population
3) why they would have an interest in doing so, seeing as those populations are resources to exploit as both workers and markets.
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I know Dick Cheney eats babies. Maybe he could help.
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I think this world could stand a lower population growth. It's been proven over and over that the key to that is not killing a bunch of people, but educating them. Education of women, especially, is important in controlling population. Am I the only one who thinks that's a more intelligent solution than plotting to kill as many people as possible? Or better yet, sitting around debating whether there are people who want to kill as many people as possible? If there is such an organization, they would do well to plot the building of schools and the distribution of condoms, rather than plotting wars. [/sig]
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"Education of women, especially, is important in controlling population."
Even better - giving them more control of, and better, finances.
It's been shown that financial aid given to men often goes to drugs and prostitutes - while financial aid given to women goes directly to the family. And better quality of life is the main driver for the 'demographic transition' - where women simply choose to have fewer children.
The demographic transition is why one generation will have 7 children per family - and the next - only 2. It is a powerful force.
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But all this talk of lowering the world's population - or even slowing down its growth - makes Byte nervous for some reason I can't fathom. B/c it's not as if the world is going to run out of people any time soon ...
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Quote:
Africa, China, the Middle East, India, Pakistan
Well, but remember the theory. If population control measures are slowly being implemented in Africa, or steps are still being taken to destabilize the Middle East and particularly Pakistan and India and China, then we haven't seen the worst of it yet.
Quote:
Remember the Gulf war ? The one originally called by that name, the one between Iran and Iraq ? The one that was supposed to have decimated both populations ? BOTH countries have more people than ever.
I don't think I mentioned Iran and Iraq specifically. I think I said the Middle East, and I think conflict in the Middle East has killed a lot of people. Does the death rate exceed the birth rate? I don't know, you didn't post the Middle East population growth rate. Perhaps not. But if these deaths are being caused, not just as infighting between tribal groups, but by some group of people intentionally pitting them against each other, that's monstrous.
Quote:
How do you think they are controlling China, I wonder ?
The one-child rule is implemented by the Chinese government, but doesn't benefit either the Chinese people or their government. The Chinese government is very corrupt, which leads me to believe the idea for the one child rule came from outside and they were bought in some manner.
Quote:
1) who you think the 'globalists' are
2) how you think are they managing (or not managing, in this case) to reduce the planet's population
3) why they would have an interest in doing so, seeing as those populations are resources to exploit as both workers and markets.
1) International corporations and military contractors tend to be key members, as do government leaders who support a global united government. Leaders who are part of the movement, however, are in the movement mostly in self-interest or for the preservation of their own people, to reduce the potential of becoming a targeted population. Once the structures are in place, it could be easy for any of them to try for a world domination scheme, so for now they work together, waiting for the day they can crush underfoot any of the weak hearted people who actually believe a global government is a good harmonizing peaceful thing and everyone's doing this for the good of the Earth and humanity. Easy casualties.
2) Through long term plans and playing chess with lives.
3) Because less people increases their own standards of living, while meanwhile they can still put to work the remaining population of peons if they have to. Most of their wealth doesn't come from production, it comes from theft, exploitation, and taking advantage. They could care less about what they're making, or if they're even making anything at all, so long as they're on top and in control.
Quote:
But all this talk of lowering the world's population - or even slowing down its growth - makes Byte nervous for some reason I can't fathom. B/c it's not as if the world is going to run out of people any time soon ...
It's the possible methodology that concerns me, if physical and psychological warfare/propaganda are being used to hurt people, cultures, or populations, then I have ethical objections. I have said REPEATEDLY that I think we do need to think about sustainability, though I'm always ignored when I say that.
And I never said I WASN'T paranoid.
Educating people is good... Though we do have to be careful that recommending our cultural values to other cultures don't have unforeseen consequences on their power for self determination.
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Ouch, Byte is right, this thread exploded. That illustrates how are elections are so easily manipulated. Also, I was quoted, or references, so I have to clarify a point:
Destabilization does not directly result in population control, but indirectly: An unstable region is easier to take over. The major targets here are Iran, Pakistan and India. If chaos spreads, then a puppet govt. can take over. It's already happened in Pakistan. Of course, that govt only controls 1/2 of Pakistan, but still, it's a US puppet.
A puppet govt, once in place, can implement population control. A good example is the communist takeover of china. The soviets were fairly harsh on population for the same reason as all of the ZPG crowd: They didn't want to get outnumbered. This is the core of ZPG that people find fascist, and you can find it very early on in Protestant Britain with policies towards the catholic celtic areas: "Oh no, they are having more children than us. If we don't do something, we'll all end up drinking Guinness! Let's kill them all instead."
The Communist crackdowns in Russia feared a day of being outnumbered, which they now are, but probably not because of other people, but because of Russian policies. The Ukrainians, eastern europeans, and particularly central asian muslims. A secondary policy of this was to assimilate as many people as possible, and make them russians. The people of the crimea believe themselves to russian, but actually they mostly came from bulgaria 1500 years ago. They were forcibly assimilated during I think it was the 18th c. Ethnically, now, they're very similar to russians.
Now consider China as the arch example. The Mandarin Han have overwhelmingly assimilated the many ethnic groups of east asia, redesignating everything as "china" and converting the language, etc. Unlike the US, the population they conquered outnumbered them. Now there's the "one child policy" Is this an outside influence of the west, not wanting to be overrun by chinese? an internal measure to preserve the status quo of the ruling class? or a part of a globalist agenda to reduce the world population?
I don't really know. But I do know that muslim countries reproduce more rapidly than secular ones, and this scares people, particularly globalists, in the US, EU, and of course, Israel, who is pretty terrified. (diplomatic relations just fell apart between Israel and Turkey. That's fairly uncomfy to be suddenly on hostile relations with a country that outnumbers you 12:1, and knows just about everything about your internal affairs, military secrets, etc.) So, the fear is well founded, but is it realistic? I mean chaotic regions of pakistan and afghanistan aren't particularly overpopulated, nor are the provinced of western china. Neither is most of africa. Everyone is probably reading the first ladies detective agency. Botswana is a nation of around a million.
If I were to make a call, yeah, I'd say population control is part of the ultimate agenda. I think, yes, it's possible that the globalists might take a radical move of provoking a massive conflict to reduce the population, both ideas are certainly out there in the globalist community, it's just a matter of who ends up winning the argument.
It does seem to me, just because I like to point these out, a position occassionally put forth pro-population control and pro-abortion is inconsistent
Yes, if you were actually "Pro-abortion" like John Holdren, then yes, it's consistent: You hate people. This is the ZPG position, which is often a cover for the more radical rockefeller globalist position: Reduce the world population. Now I see two common versions of this: The rockafellers have held for a long time that the world can sustain 1 billion, and then there is a crowd who thinks that number is high, but these numbers are based on hunter gatherer levels.
However, if the idealogical position is "Pro Choice" then there's a flaw:
The "choice" to control family size doesn't require abortion. There's adoption. But that aside, the real inconsistency:
A choice to c
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"Well, but remember the theory. If ..."
That's a mighty big if, there. With, I might add, absolutely nothing to back it up, except a theory.
(The middle East) "Does the death rate exceed the birth rate?"
NO. (found by googling country name population growth rate)
Egypt
1.682%
Syria
2.189%
Saudi Arabia
1.954%
(WIKI "Saudi Arabia's population is characterized by rapid growth and a large cohort of youths.")
Iran
0.792%
Iraq
2.562%
Algeria
1.209%
Kuwait
3.3%
etc
I mentioned Iran and Iraq specifically b/c YOU seem to think that wars are being used as the major means of population reduction. Now, the biggest wars fought in the Middle East recently have involved Iraq and Iran. HENCE ...
"The one-child rule is implemented by the Chinese government ..."
Compared to India, it doesn't seem to be hurting them much. In fact, they are doing quite well. It's also supported by ~ 3/4 of the Chinese people.
"... which leads me to believe the idea for the one child rule came from outside and they were bought in some manner."
Here is where your train of thought derails quite seriously. You start with an assumption, then presume that somehow this (presumed) theory is being worked on by shadowy forces whose stealthy plan which has not yet been unleashed has escaped everyone's detection - but that of a few. Do you not see how tenuous your position is ?
I'm going to go from 3 to 1, b/c it's easier to reply that way.
3) "Most of their wealth doesn't come from production, it comes from theft, exploitation, and taking advantage. They could care less about what they're making, or if they're even making anything at all, so long as they're on top and in control."
That's true. The very wealthy simply can't work enough and create enough value to justify their wealth. But being in control isn't an end, generally. It's a means to increasing wealth.
Anyway, that puts the ultra-wealthy in the camp of persons who would have an interest. What about senators ? Congressmen ? Or MPs ? (members of parliament) As the aspiring actor said - what is the motivation ? More importantly, how is it that they are let in on this big game plan so that they can foster it along, and none has ever let the cat out of the bag ? At a certain point either everybody in a position of influence is in on it, or it falls apart.
2) "Through long term plans ..."
It sure would be nice to think SOMEbody is that smart. But the fact is, they are not. Just think of all the 'brilliant' plans recently implemented: Hussein. The Taliban. Noriega.
The fact is that there are global players who consistently angle in particular directions, who sometimes get it right but often not, who do not all share the same goals, and who are on the same page. There IS no brilliant mastermind with an overall plan. Or even a group of them.
"... and playing chess with lives."
But yes, they do play with people's lives. Our capitalist system gives them the power to do that.
1) "International corporations and military contractors tend to be key members, as do government leaders who support a global united government. Leaders who are part of the movement, however, are in the movement mostly in self-interest or for the preservation of their own people, to reduce the potential of becoming a targeted population. Once the structures are in place, it could be easy for any of them to try for a world domination scheme, so for now they work together, waiting for the day they can crush underfoot any of the weak hearted people who actually believe a global government is a good harmonizing peaceful thing and everyone's doing this for the good of the Earth and humanity. Easy casualties."
B/c (as pointed out above) EVERYONE across the GLOBE with influence needs to be in the loop to carry out this large plan, the idea falls under its own weight. And under it's inherent contradictions. Let's take the Chinese for example. Are they reducing their own population growth so as to not be a target of population reduction ? Hunh ?
As for on
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Okay, I'm sleepy, and that may have been jumbled. I wanted to address these three questions, though I think Byte said it well:
Quote:
1) who you think the 'globalists' are
2) how you think are they managing (or not managing, in this case) to reduce the planet's population
3) why they would have an interest in doing so, seeing as those populations are resources to exploit as both workers and markets.
1) Globalists are not a clandestine conspiracy, they're a fairly open political movement. Most of them are fairly self-identifying. Largely they are intellectuals, and think tanks, and politicians, and yes, they have the support of some corporations and also some governments.
2) They influence population I think primarily through influencing public policy and through media campaign. Additionally, they contain a lot of powerful financial interests, and can make it economically difficult to have children, particularly for the poor.
3) There are a lot of "why's" Globalists are not an alien lizard hive mind, they're a group of people. They don't possess a single motivation. John Holdren is an eco-eugenicist. He thinks that killing off the human population would be good for the environment. Some people, as I just mentioned, are afraid of being overrun, outnumbered by some other population. Some are worried about resource, others may feel that they are losing control over an increasing population. We now have two nations in the world of a billion people. No one can manage a billion people. Yes, it's fairly easy to keep order in sweden or finland, because there aren't a lot of swedes or finns. But how do you manage India?
Russia has a very advanced infrastructure and a highly regulated industrial society and there about 119 million ethnic russians, and various minorities, muslim populations, etc. Still, manageable, and sitting on 6.5 million square miles. There are around 120-130 million japanese, on a fairly static population and land area, being well maintained with very little chaos.
But there are a large number of rapidly increasing populations: Pakistan is a nation of 120 million indo-aryans and 50 million afghans. Nigeria is a country of 155 million, A large number of these are recent immigrants, but the majority are of nigerian ethnic group. At the moment, it holds together. Brazil is a country of 191 million on a very large piece of land, but 1/2 of all species live in the Amazon, so there's a very disputed issue. Still, costal Brazil is perfectly adequate to support the population.
Is there a crisis? regionally, yes, globally no. But there are much better solutions than killing people, or preventing them from having children. I think crisis could be forestalled indefinitely.
But population control is just one part of the globalist agenda. The globalists also favor one govt, one currency, one language, etc. etc etc. Many of them believe that this will lead to peace. Given the number of people they've killed trying to achieve this goal, and the number of people killed in massive empires like China and the USSR, relative to the population, it's pretty clear to me that "no, large empires tend towards eternal civil war, not peace" and that a global state would be in a constant state of war.
But back to ZPG, I think the major threat of this, and other globalist ideas, is that once you create such a power, who do you put in charge? So far, my experience had been that Nietzche is basically correct: Those in power are those who have the most to gain from exploiting power, because they put the most effort to seeking it out.
This would predict total disaster. The populations being controlled would be completely selective. Say our usual set of leaders come to power. You end up with an alliance of the US, UK, EU, and possibly China and Japan. Maybe India. But in such an alliance, we'd have select groups from those countries: The US would give us an elite group of silver spooner WASPs, and some up and coming zionists, and a few nouveaux riche. The poor of america, china and india would be sacrific
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DT
Then there is a split between the 'globalists' and the capitalists. The capitalists like nothing better than a large impoverished population.
"I think crisis could be forestalled indefinitely."
How ?
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Simple solution to the whole concept of abortion.
Not lettin it come to that in the first place, education and access to birth control of choice - hell, as everyone knows I consider the Trojan Man a national hero.
Of course, the very same folk railing against abortion are often the folk who indirectly caused it to come to that by politically blockading the education and access that would have made it a non-issue in the first place...
But try telling THEM that, without a tire iron in one hand when ya do it.
-Frem
There always has to be a price.
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Quote:
"The one-child rule is implemented by the Chinese government ..."
Compared to India, it doesn't seem to be hurting them much. In fact, they are doing quite well. It's also supported by ~ 3/4 of the Chinese people.
"... which leads me to believe the idea for the one child rule came from outside and they were bought in some manner."
Here is where your train of thought derails quite seriously. You start with an assumption, then presume that somehow this (presumed) theory is being worked on by shadowy forces whose stealthy plan which has not yet been unleashed has escaped everyone's detection - but that of a few. Do you not see how tenuous your position is ?
I've already lost track. Which assumption did I start with?
China has more people than India. As a nation being used for it's worker population, of course they're doing "well," or at least the people with all the money are doing well. I'm not so sure about the average Chinese worker, who often live in a multi-generational household and the more people who can work the better the position their family is in economically. That is, those who haven't been forced out of the traditional household arrangement to become migrant workers.
But to address your comments, it isn't SHADOWY, globalists are self-proclaimed and out in the open. It's more just people 1) don't care, 2) aren't paying attention, 3) or are convinced the message is benevolent.
And yes, in answer to your reaction, I don't think one united global government is a good thing.
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Quote:
"LET THESE BE GUIDESTONES TO AN AGE OF REASON"
the message of the Georgia Guide stones
Russian, Hebrew, Arabic Hindi, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili
1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
Translation: Genocide your enemies, then breed like rabbits with your harem of hotties.
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"Which assumption did I start with?"
That there is a conspiracy of globalists to 'off' major portions of the world's population. And that they are in a position to do it.
"China has more people than India."
China STARTED with more people than India before it's one-urban-child policy - hence, it has more people now. But China's rate of increase is not a high as India's.
"As a nation being used for it's worker population, of course they're doing "well,""
FWIW Vietnam is the new China.
But the Chinese people have overall a higher standard of living than those in India. The Chinese economy is growing FAR faster than that of India - and the people are benefitting. Let me put it this way (as I mentioned in a previous post) - the Chinese are building one electricity generation plant across the country EACH WEEK. That indicates a LARGE scale demand - from things like TVs, hairdryers, cell phones. Which indicates LARGE scale use of consumer goods - which indicates that MANY people are doing more than subsisting.
Unlike India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_the_People's_Republ
ic_of_China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_India
The urban Chinese - and nearly half are urban (WIKI ... 723 million (54%) and 607 million (46%) residing in the rural and urban areas respectively (not including Hongkong, Macau, Taiwan) - are benefitting most from the growing economy. But rural Chinese are slowly benefitting as well.
IF THE ONE URBAN CHILD POLICY IS HARMING CHINA IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE SHOWING UP IN THE STANDARD OF LIVING OR IN ECONOMIC GROWTH.
And yes, the average Chinese person is doing better than the average Indian one.
OK - if globalists are self-proclaimed then find me some links to show where they are planning what you say they are, and show me how they are actually controlling anything. You seem to have your finger on that pulse, so - post away.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I know Dick Cheney eats babies. Maybe he could help.
Babies taste like chicken!
Go Fuck Yourself!
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:Quote:
"LET THESE BE GUIDESTONES TO AN AGE OF REASON"
the message of the Georgia Guide stones
Russian, Hebrew, Arabic Hindi, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili
1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
Translation: Genocide your enemies, then breed like rabbits with your harem of hotties.
PN can go from zero to batshit in 2.3 seconds.
And yes, those guides sound HORRIBLE. How DARE anyone say that we should avoid petty laws and useless officials! What, do you want to put "Hero" out of work?
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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OMG Dick.... I sniggerd and chortled so much my next-door cubicle mate thought I was choking on my coffee. Dontcha think you're taking your namesake just a little TOO seriously tho???????
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The problem is that there's two Chinas, one that's growing and enjoying the benefits of all that technology and the electricity, and the other is the people who are building it. You're focusing your attention on the urban side of things, and missing the other side of the coin.
Here's something from Henry Kissinger, when Obama's Administration first stepped into office. It doesn't have much about population, but there's a lot in this about a "new world order," governments coming together collectively to "solve problems." That's the basic ideal of globalism. More pessimistic folks like myself don't trust it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/opinion/12iht-edkissinger.1.19281915
.html?_r=1
Henry Kissinger has also written reports about the threat that underdeveloped nations and increasing population sizes pose to developed nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Study_Memorandum_200
Quote:
Worldwide, the population control movement was active throughout the 1960s and 1970s, driving many reproductive health and family planning programs. In the 1980s tension grew between population control advocates and feminist women's health activists who advanced women's reproductive rights as part of a human rights-based approach.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_control
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Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You realize you have about as much credibility as PN, right ?
Sure...
That's a compliment , actually , though a touch back-handed...
For whatever else he's worth , at least he's an advocate of Free Speech , unlike you and your little neo-Commie gang...
Oh, sure...
PN's an advocate of free speech, just as long as you're not a JEW. Or black. Or brown. Or non-christian.
Quote:
At least he digs around and publishes his information...Not all of it passes muster , of course , but at least he advocates for the Freedom of Mind and Conscience over in utero infanticide , the Ultimate Rape of Beautiful Minds and Tiny Defenseless Bodies Human...
Oh, boo-freaking-hoo.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"For whatever else he's worth , at least he's an advocate of Free Speech , unlike you and your little neo-Commie gang..."
Are you trying to claim yet again that Kwicko tried to have you banned from the site ?
Prove it.
Just so we all know that you're not lying, again.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
Thanks, Rue - I'm still waiting for that "proof" Out2Lunch says he has. Can't find it here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40039
or here:
http://www.fireflyfan.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34664
or even here:
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.asp?b=18&t=35632
My bet is Out2Lunch will run away again and resurface in a couple weeks, making the same lame claims. One thing he WON'T do is produce any kind of evidence that I ever tried to have him banned, because nothing of the kind ever happened.
Post your evidence and your "proof", Out. Or just man up and admit that you made it up, that you really are the coward and liar we all already know you to be.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:Quote:
"LET THESE BE GUIDESTONES TO AN AGE OF REASON"
the message of the Georgia Guide stones
Russian, Hebrew, Arabic Hindi, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili
1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. (sounds good)
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.(hmmmmm - sounds a bit like eugenics)
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.(esperanto didn't really take off)
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason. (yup)
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts. (yup)
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.(yup)
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.(yup)
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.(yup)
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite. (um, not sure what that means - sounds poetic)
10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature. (yup)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Simple solution to the whole concept of abortion.
Not lettin it come to that in the first place, education and access to birth control of choice - hell, as everyone knows I consider the Trojan Man a national hero.
Of course, the very same folk railing against abortion are often the folk who indirectly caused it to come to that by politically blockading the education and access that would have made it a non-issue in the first place...
But try telling THEM that, without a tire iron in one hand when ya do it.
-Frem
There always has to be a price.
Bingo. You nailed it, and so did PhoenixRose a bit before you.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:Quote:
"LET THESE BE GUIDESTONES TO AN AGE OF REASON"
the message of the Georgia Guide stones
Russian, Hebrew, Arabic Hindi, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili
1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. (sounds good) [I know, right? It's not saying you have to KILL or MURDER 6.5 billion people - it's saying you don't have to keep doubling your population every few years. You CAN have negative population growth, and still have progress.]
2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.(hmmmmm - sounds a bit like eugenics) [I'm all for individuals guiding their own reproduction wisely and seeking fitness and diversity. I'm not so much down with passing laws that enforce it upon us from without. But wouldn't it be nice if people would take it upon themselves? Take some of that "personal responsibility" they're always prattling on about?]
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.(esperanto didn't really take off) [Mandarin? Seems to be the growing thing, language-wise.]
4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason. (yup) [Gorsh. That sounds downright... reasonable. It'll never happen.]
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts. (yup) [Scandalous!]
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.(yup) [Outrageous!]
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.(yup) [Inconceivable!]
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.(yup) [I think they used to teach a class called "Civics" in school. It had nothing to do with small Honda cars.]
9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite. (um, not sure what that means - sounds poetic) [Truth is beauty, beauty truth.]
10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature. (yup) [Blasphemy!]
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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and in Georgia??? That would not have been in my top 25 guesses for the location of those stones.
Yoko Ono and others have praised the inscribed messages as "a stirring call to rational thinking", while opponents have labeled them as the "Ten Commandments of the Antichrist".
The Guidestones have become a subject of interest for conspiracy theorists. One of them, an activist named Mark Dice, a Christian conservative political activist, demanded that the Guidestones "be smashed into a million pieces, and then the rubble used for a construction project", claiming that the Guidestones are of "a deep Satanic origin," and that R. C. Christian belongs to "a Luciferian secret society" related to the New World Order.
At the unveiling of the monument, a local minister proclaimed that he believed the monument was "for sun worshipers, for cult worship and for devil worship"
In 2008, the stones were defaced with polyurethane paint and graffiti with slogans such as "Death to the new world order." Wired magazine called the defacement "the first serious act of vandalism in the Guidestones' history".
As of October 10, 2009, the stones bear a variety of graffiti, including splattered polyurethane, a silver spray-painted monkey, some anti-George W. Bush rhetoric, and a variety of quotes from classical authors such as from Shelley's "Ozymandias." The vandalism has yet to be repaired; moreover, it is unclear whose responsibility undertaking such repairs should be.
If I were a conceptual artist I would consider the defacement an essential part of the piece.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com 
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Byte
"The problem is that there's two Chinas, one that's growing and enjoying the benefits of all that technology and the electricity ..."
Not really. But at least you've moved from claiming that all the goodies in China are only going to the very few wealthy - when in fact there is WIDE SCALE benefit. So, while the urban Chinese are benefitting more, rural Chinese are also benefitting, though more slowly. And, as I would like to point out - again - while China is not a paradise, everyone has the minimum in terms of water, food, and shelter needed for life, unlike India.
My POINT - which you seem to keep evading - is that the one-child policy seems to be working well enough for the Chinese that the standard of living is much higher than India - and rising. And economic growth is much higher than in India. It seems to be working for them.
The 'new world order' seems to constitute agreements between governments to solve multi-national problems - something governments have been doing since there were governments - not the 'one world government' you were talking about.
As for the population cites, people have been talking about this ever since Malthus. And, they would be more convincing if you could find a cite that says they intend to foment war as the main method to reducing population of the extras.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
and in Georgia??? That would not have been in my top 25 guesses for the location of those stones.
Yoko Ono and others have praised the inscribed messages as "a stirring call to rational thinking", while opponents have labeled them as the "Ten Commandments of the Antichrist".
The Guidestones have become a subject of interest for conspiracy theorists. One of them, an activist named Mark Dice, a Christian conservative political activist, demanded that the Guidestones "be smashed into a million pieces, and then the rubble used for a construction project", claiming that the Guidestones are of "a deep Satanic origin," and that R. C. Christian belongs to "a Luciferian secret society" related to the New World Order.
At the unveiling of the monument, a local minister proclaimed that he believed the monument was "for sun worshipers, for cult worship and for devil worship"
In 2008, the stones were defaced with polyurethane paint and graffiti with slogans such as "Death to the new world order." Wired magazine called the defacement "the first serious act of vandalism in the Guidestones' history".
As of October 10, 2009, the stones bear a variety of graffiti, including splattered polyurethane, a silver spray-painted monkey, some anti-George W. Bush rhetoric, and a variety of quotes from classical authors such as from Shelley's "Ozymandias." The vandalism has yet to be repaired; moreover, it is unclear whose responsibility undertaking such repairs should be.
If I were a conceptual artist I would consider the defacement an essential part of the piece.
Conspiracy theorists, you say? Color me not surprised in the least that Out2Lunch and PN keep bringing them up.
I like the "Obama iz a muslim" graffito myself. Only in Georgia can you find a conspiracy theorist who can't even spell "is".
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
My POINT - which you seem to keep evading - is that the one-child policy seems to be working well enough for the Chinese that the standard of living is much higher than India - and rising. And economic growth is much higher than in India. It seems to be working for them.
Don't mean to. I guess it's more that I missed how you're measuring standard of living. And the fact that the sum of my knowledge of India is Slumdog Millionare, that they're mostly Hindu, and that they kind of don't like Pakistan.
The workers in China, who can get work, they have shelter... That they share with thirty other people and which tends not to get electricity. They get enough food, though from what I hear some of them are still going pretty hungry, so the food might not be survival rations. And they also have showers, which is a luxury, but they're again shared.
The workers who don't have a job, from what I understand, are shit out of luck until they find somewhere they can fit in and work, and have to move around constantly looking. I also understand employment isn't permanent from day to day, so every day they have to come back and HOPE that there's an opening for them, and that they won't get turned away.
Quote:
The 'new world order' seems to constitute agreements between governments to solve multi-national problems - something governments have been doing since there were governments - not the 'one world government' you were talking about.
As for the population cites, people have been talking about this ever since Malthus. And, they would be more convincing if you could find a cite that says they intend to foment war as the main method to reducing population of the extras.
Which, I admit, is going to be hard to find.
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Quote:
The workers who don't have a job, from what I understand, are shit out of luck until they find somewhere they can fit in and work, and have to move around constantly looking. I also understand employment isn't permanent from day to day, so every day they have to come back and HOPE that there's an opening for them, and that they won't get turned away.
Byte, you make China sound an awful lot like vast portions of the United States. Only with healthcare for everyone.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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There may be some similarities to certain illegal immigrant populations in America, in that there aren't any human rights, protections, or health and safety standards for them.
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Quote:
Then there is a split between the 'globalists' and the capitalists. The capitalists like nothing better than a large impoverished population.
Close.
The only snag is that capitalism is a system based on "capital" which makes the banks the center, and banks are globalists. They, and certain corporations who do more govt. contract work than private work tend to favor the globalist image.
Industry, independent free market capitalists, yes, prefer a large labor pool, and customer base. You are correct that there is a split here.
I don't know if you noticed, but the typical alliance between corporate america's interests and those of the republican party really fell apart during the Bush years. "What's good for general motors is good for america" well, not under Bush, Not GE or 3M or anyone, except for a few hardcore contractors, like big Pharm, and people who have some sweetheart deal like Walmart.
Part of the ZPG globalism is based on a desire for power. They keep trying to take over institutions like GM, but then there's Ford and Toyota, and now there's Tata. It's hopeless.
Quote:
"I think crisis could be forestalled indefinitely."
How ?
Easy. GMO foods, irradiation, maglev, wind, solar, self powered freight, revitalization of land. We're currently operating at < 0.1% efficiency right now. We have the technology to run up to around 50%. My 1 trillion humans was a conservative estimate of what our farmland could support. But long before the population reaches that level it will have far more serious issues. The eco balance is already shifting to make humans a primary food source for smaller organism. At one trillion humans, we'd be the dominant land-based animal food source, and the disease contact rate for humans would be minutes. Every few minutes, you'd contract a new virus. If science can solve that problem, it can probably colonize outer space. Actually, the latter is probably easier. But I suspect the cycle will be "grow, collapse, repeat" for a long time before we hit that level. Meanwhile, we should just work on feeding the people maximizing their collective contribution, and minimizing our impact on the environment.
Whoever commented on China's one child policy, as a lot of my family is chinese and I talk to them all the time, I can say offhandedly: No, it's not working, it's a total disaster. It's within ten years of all out civil war. People in China support their govt. because if they don't, they get killed. They're terrified to oppose it. Sometimes they convinced even themselves, but I've met few of these. Most are just afraid to say, except if they are here. The opinions I hear range from "this is insane" to "this is genocide"
Sorry, I'm not going to scroll back and see who said that, because in the spirit of responding to the post, not the poster, that one was way off the mark.
> Byte: China has more people than India.
Not so much, no. Still, I think India is in better shape, except environmentally. China is much larger than India.
Overall, I have to agree with Byte. I will say this though: Kathy, the thing is that globalism is not a grand conspiracy, it's a movement. Yes, there are chinese globalists and japanese globalists and british globalists, and just like our globalists, they all see themselves as coming out on top.
As for one world govt, it already exists. What do you call the G20 or the WTO? They govern.
John,
Your translation is very on target. I think that the only caveat is that there are a lot of Globalist "true believers" who actually believe all of the points on that list can come true together. These are people who never read Nietzsche.
If you create this situation, and absolutely extreme form of corruption that makes Nazi Germany look like a petting zoo is going to come to town. What the world looks like the day after that, I don't even want to think about.
Kathy
>one-urban-child policy
Two things:
1) Almost everywhere in China is within an urban prefecture of some sort, it's not like the US.
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Quote:
Byte, you make China sound an awful lot like vast portions of the United States. Only with healthcare for everyone.
And jobs
oh, and if you post on this forum, they show up at your house and drag you out in to the street and blow your brains out. No explanation will be forthcoming. If someone pursues the matter, they kill them too. Or just torture them for 20 years. This still happens. To people I know.
Here's a story. Two men were college friends. One called the other and asked for a place to stay for the night. So he stayed, they chatted about old times. That morning, the friend left. He made it a few hours, and was killed. He was a democrat, and that was not the ruling party, which would be communist. The sentence for that was death.
The friend meanwhile knew nothing of this, not even that his not dead friend had become a democrat. He was in his house sipping his tea when police came in the front door. They have no need of process, they're not like vampires, they don't need an invite. They hauled him out onto the street and told him that his friend was a democrat, and therefore an enemy of the state. Then they blew his head off without further warning or ensuing conflict.
His daughter saw this, and so she went later down to city hall to protest. She said her father knew nothing of any democratic activity and was simply giving a college friend a place to stay for the night. They told her that she was questioning the authority of the state, and then took her without trial and placed her in a jail cell for 20 years. During that time her teeth rotted, and it spread to her jaw, but no healthcare, no legal appeal...
These are the people who are still in power, and this is how they still act. Yes, China, its a vast an amazing country. Don't ever think that their govt. and ours are on any kind of a level. Thinking like that... can get you killed.
Recently, a chinese blogger friend of mine was covering the political situation in China. The govt, as it does from time to time, decided to make an example. It does this before it makes the laws, or on the same day. They rounded up a bunch of bloggers and executed them. He still blogs, but he doesn't talk about politics now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"For whatever else he's worth , at least he's an advocate of Free Speech , unlike you and your little neo-Commie gang..."
Are you trying to claim yet again that Kwicko tried to have you banned from the site ?
Prove it.
Just so we all know that you're not lying, again.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
Thanks, Rue - I'm still waiting for that "proof" Out2Lunch says he has. Can't find it here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40039
or here:
http://www.fireflyfan.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34664
or even here:
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.asp?b=18&t=35632
My bet is Out2Lunch will run away again and resurface in a couple weeks, making the same lame claims. One thing he WON'T do is produce any kind of evidence that I ever tried to have him banned, because nothing of the kind ever happened.
Post your evidence and your "proof", Out. Or just man up and admit that you made it up, that you really are the coward and liar we all already know you to be.
Bumping this because apparently Out2Lunch missed it. Or he ran away again.
Mike
Let the wild rumpus start!
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So, does anyone have anything RATIONAL to say that's on-topic ?
Not that anyone's likely to pay much attention, as I've posted this sort of thing before and been blown off, but: I would really like to point out, again, that Planned Parenthood does far more than abortions, and if more women took more advantage of their myriad other services, they probably wouldn't need that one. I have been going to Planned Parenthood for years. Yes, years. And not ever to have an abortion. I went to educate myself, to have a basic exam, and to be provided with birth control pills. They have offered all the information and advice I could want. They have given me fair prices on the visits and the pills. Since I don't have anything close to decent health care coverage, I wouldn't have been able to get those exams or that birth control without them. Since I could, thanks to them, I have remained healthy and baby-free until such time as I'm actually ready for one. I couldn't express how grateful I am to them for allowing me to live my life. Painting them as a strictly 'abortion clinic' is ludicrous and in all ways false. Painting them as actual advocates of abortion is some ways beyond that. They advocate choice and they offer it, but if you've ever actually talked to a nurse there, abortion is the last choice they want to offer you. It's not only the most trying, it's the most expensive. They would always, always advise actual birth control before abortion, and to deny that is simple lunacy.
Well said PR, but it's too bad so many people either can't read or can't think their way out of a wet paper bag (or actually, won't take off their blinders) so that your message goes over many a head. They just don't seem capable of understanding that nobody is advocating abortion as a matter of policy, just as the least bad of some unpleasant options. And those who conflate ZPG and Planned Parenthood just don't know what they are talking about.
Oh, (and in reply to the message above) Ted Turner may think 250 million is good, but he's about the only one - no credible ecologist would argue for that figure. However, it's abundantly clear that 6.5 - 7 Billion is not sustainable. As a species, we already use about 40% of the biologically available energy produced on land (net primary productivity - the only way energy gets into living systems). One species taking nearly half the pie! Does that seem right to you? Sure doesn't to me. As I posted on another thread, the most credible estimate of the long-term sustainable carrying capacity of the earth for humans, assuming a European standard of living, is about 2B.............
perfessergee
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"The workers in China, who can get work, they have shelter... That they share with thirty other people and which tends not to get electricity. They get enough food, though from what I hear some of them are still going pretty hungry, so the food might not be survival rations. And they also have showers, which is a luxury, but they're again shared."
China has a minimum standard of living which provides food and shelter for those who don't have enough money.
Many of the people I work with are from mainland China and visit regularly. One anglo is x-tian who visits China frequently (as often as the authorities allow) going to (covertly) spread the word in the countryside. (not being religious myself - 
) Even the worst parts of the countryside have government-provided housing, one (small) family per unit. Pictures I have seen that are NOT propaganda look like it's superior to low-cost US housing. Pictures I have seen that are NOT propaganda indicate that indeed, it is one small family to a unit. Pictures I have seen that are NOT propaganda indicate the situation is NOT as you describe it.
The very large proportion of both urban and rural Chinese people have decent housing.
SOME Chinese construction workers who have left the coutryside live as you describe. But they are no different from the many non-union general-labor construction workers in the US. I have known some who slept in unfinished houses, for lack of a home.
Other than that, the Chinese unemployment rate is pretty low - considering that they count ALL who are unemployed, unlike the US. I think I recently read and article that it 'surged' to 4.2 %. The US should be so lucky - eh ?
Overall, the standard of living in China, which used to be comparable to that of India, is now far higher. Again, I'd like to say that if the one-urban-child policy of China is hurting the people, it doesn't seem to be reflected in the standard of living or the economy.
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Perhaps not. Perhaps it's just hurting the gender balance.
Which is also a concern.
My sources for my information on China were probably very biased, the message was something like "Americans, feel sorry for the Chinese."
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China is certainly no paradise.
I mentioned 'the authorities' who limit travel to China and 'mind' the visitors. The politcal system that runs the economy also suppresses the internet (with google's agreement). Any religious or political deviations are swiftly punished. In the countryside 33% of women report overt domestic violence. AIDS is rampant, in part due to government cheapness and corruption. The prisons are used as brutal cheap labor, and if reports are to be believed, parts on the hoof. The coal fired power plants will destroy the Chinese environment, then the world's.
The improved standard of living comes as a package deal with the bad stuff.
As for sex-selection, it happens in India too. But there abortion is the preferred mode - oddly enough, as I understand it, for religious reasons. As was explained to me, if you use birth control you are interfering with the cycle of life. But if you are conceived and then aborted - man, you musta' earned some bad karma ! Better luck next time !
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Perhaps not. Perhaps it's just hurting the gender balance.
Which is also a concern.
My sources for my information on China were probably very biased, the message was something like "Americans, feel sorry for the Chinese."
It is indeed hurting the gender balance - in urban China the sex ratio among young people is about 120 males per 100 females, which is very, very far from the norm. Since males die at higher rates than females from conception on, it should be slightly female biased. Gender selective abortion is widely believed to be practiced and even female infanticide is rumored. The same is actually true in India, though not so extreme. The implications are quite profound. Think about a generation of young men, one sixth of whom aren't going to have a mate. In all societies that I know of, young unmarried men are the least stable social element. Makes you wonder why parents are dooming their sons to such a life, or at least why they aren't thinking about it. The cultural bias for sons is pretty strong.
perfessergee
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WIKI ANSWERS
Asian History question: What is the male and female ratio in India? Answer 1000 males : 880 females.
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OTOH
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_09/b3922034_mz007.htm
In Western countries, such as the U.S., the ratio of male to female births is around 1.05. ... In contrast, since at least 1980, male-female ratios are around 1.08 in China, India, and Pakistan. This demographic phenomenon is limited to Asia and does not relate to economic development. The male-female ratios are not high in sub-Saharan Africa and Latin America.
There is much evidence that parents infected by HBV (hepatitis B virus) are more likely to have male children. Places with substantial HBV -- Asia, Alaska, and parts of the the former Soviet Union -- tend to have high male-female birth ratios. Studies in Greece and France show that HBV-positive parents had male-female ratios for offsprings of 1.7 to 1.8, vs. 1.1 to 1.2 for those who are HBV-negative. This pattern also shows up among immigrants, with those from high HBV areas, such as China, having high male-female offspring ratios in the U.S.
The biological explanation for the HBV effect is unclear, though it may involve more frequent spontaneous abortion of female fetuses. But the effect is large, concentrated in certain regions, and susceptible to elimination via the HBV vaccine. In Alaska, the use of the HBV vaccine in 1982 led to a sharp decline in high male-female birth ratios.
Among Asian countries, the HBV influence is greatest in China, explaining 75% of Coale's missing women. In India, the adjustment is less important, explaining only 17%. For Asian countries in general, Oster locates 46% of the absent women, ending up with 33 million missing, rather than Coale's 60 million or Sen's 107 million.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
WIKI ANSWERS
Asian History question: What is the male and female ratio in India? Answer 1000 males : 880 females.
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Wow, that's more biased than I had thought, only 1% better than China. But then, India has practiced female infanticide for millenia. Thanks for looking that up.
perfessergee
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