More on 'Core Beliefs'

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, March 28, 2009 14:42
VIEWED: 1712
PAGE 1 of 1

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:16 PM

AURAPTOR:

core beliefs don't 'evolve', they are a foundation on which one views the world. If your foundation is always shifting, you can't build much of anything on them.

SIGNYM:

I think you're confusing "core beliefs" with "core ethics". An ethic is how you distinguish right from wrong. It is ONE kind of belief. A "belief" is a more general category. It could about Santa Claus or Jesus, or your a priori assumptions, or your core ethics. I have a core ethic, and my core ethic is: Belief is bad. It keeps people from questioning themselves and others. It keeps people from seeing a bigger picture than they saw yesterday.

So far, all I see is a core belief that Muslims are bad. If that's a mis-read: what IS (ARE) your core belief(s)?

ANTHONYT:

Hello,

My core beliefs AND ethics have changed over time. Things I once considered permissable in my youth, I now consider unpermissable. Things I once embraced without a second thought, I now have grave doubts or even disbelief towards.

The analogy of 'you can't build anything on a shifting foundation' is a flawed one. Life isn't one original foundation of beliefs and principles upon which all else is laid.

Life is a series of foundations and the actions built upon them. As experience is acquired, new foundations are laid, new actions built up. Life is not one vast building. Life is a City full of the buildings you've made. The idea of a stagnant foundation is, to me, madness. It implies an inability to achieve growth at the most important levels.

My own analogy would be thus. Egypt has several pyramids. The earlier ones were primitive step-designs and in some cases poorly built, collapsing in on themselves. New foundations were laid. New pyramids built. The most basic assumptions about pyramid building evolved. (So don't let anyone tell you that Aliens built the things, unless the Aliens were morons who screwed up the first couple before they got it right.)

Yes, even foundations evolve. God help you if they don't. You can't build forever on a single, unchanging foundation. At some points in your life, it is highly desirable to re-examine yourself from the bottom up, to critically analyze even your most basic and sacred beliefs and assumptions, and make the necessary changes. Then you can create a new building of improved actions on a better foundation. And then another. Until the day you die.

SIGNYM:

Good point Anthony.

IMHO the most difficult challenge is to RECOGNIZE your core beliefs. The deeper and more fundamental the belief, the harder it is to see... simply because it IS part of your world view.

In my opinion that a person who reveals something about me to myself... something I didn't know and would never have suspected... deserves my deepest thanks.

CHRISISALL:

Here's a core belief of mine I latched onto in 1971 that's pretty much not changed over the years:
"Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced."

KWICKO:

My core beliefs?

I know with absolute certainty that I can never know with anything like absolutely certainty my place in the universe. I know that nothing I do is important, but that it is very important that I do it.

Core enough for ya?

RUE:

Core Beliefs

Hey - this may all be a dream of some demented teenage boy-girl on some extra-solar planet -

- but it's all I've got.

So I'm going to believe that it's real, act like it's real, and suffer the consequences and reap the rewards of this place. I'm going to trust that my actions will never be repeated and never be repealed. I'm going to believe that whatever I do - as large or small as it may be - will have effects - and act accordingly.

And then - nothing (or at least I'll find out).

FREMDFIRMA:

Mine are actually obvious, most of em.

What you do, is who you are.

You should avoid harming other people.

Children a

AURAPTOR

Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:39 PM

Props to Chris for starting this thread. I was having a tough time trying to figure out which thread I needed to focus on and which I was done with.

Now, I've got a walk in closet that needs straightening out, if you've got some free time.....

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.

The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:41 PM

Quote:
The Pals advocate child murder, I advocate saving lives. If you were honest , at all, you'd put that in your sig.

First of all, in your previous statement you DO advocate murdering children. Sorry, but... that's what it says. Maybe you rationalize it by saying "They started it" but you have clearly advocated killing kids for nothing other than being dressed up in clothing they didn't even choose. Right there is a big contradiction between what you say you're for and how you apply it in real life.

Care to explain?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:45 PM

Quote:
What I lament, using your word, is that there's a mindset out there, a culture of people ( it's not a race, nor religion specific ) which willfully and gleefully brain washes it's children to martyr themselves , while murdering 10's or 100's of innocent people, out of pure, unadulterated and unchecked hatred for what ever the hell cause they think is just.- rapo

Of course, these exact same words could be used to describe many of those who join our military. Not all, mind you, but there ARE those of a certain mindset there who joined just because that's the culture they were born into, and they'll so completely trust in those who raised them to be cannon-fodder that they'll gleefully throw themselves in harm's way to "protect" a country that would just as soon use them up and throw them away.- Kwicko

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:48 PM

In another thread, Anthony T asks me to clarify, and I agree, that such a real life scenario where an infant/ toddler is loaded down w/ explosives, ( which has happened, btw ) that it's the handler who does the actual detonating, not the child. So, taking the child out " before " detonation is really pointless in trying to stop the attack from being carried out.

And that far fetched premise was all I was referring. That if it's either the kid, or a group on a school bus ( and the kid is going to be "martyred" anyway) then clearly, the choice to take the kid out , to save the others

Taking out the handler, and leaving the innocent kid in one piece, would clearly be preferable.

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.

The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:50 PM

Hello,

I think we were just coming to a breakthrough when we switched threads, where AuRaptor said the child was not responsible for its circumstances?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ANTHONYT

Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:00 PM

Hello,

Yes, there we go.

A consensus that the child is

1) Innocent, not responsible for its circumstances

and

2) Should be kept alive if at all possible.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:45 PM

Seems like it to me!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Now, I've got a walk in closet that needs straightening out, if you've got some free time.....

LOL.
I'd like to get back to the idea that 'core beliefs' are rock solid and never changing.

Does this mean core beliefs are placed into you as a child, or are they formulated by the individual based on experience & perception? And if the latter, why not re-examine them from time to time as experience & perception accumulate & clarify, respectively?

The laughing Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:39 PM

There was one core belief I do recall changing, from my youth - at one time I thought human emotion was a the root of much of our social ills because of confusion between what society and it's "educational" system was trying to tell me, and the evidence right in front of me every day contradicting it.

Eventually I realized that position didn't hold water when all the evidence related to it pointed the OTHER way, and I wondered why folks would want me to believe something so untrue...
And when I figured it out, I got pissed, and stayed that way ever since, although some folk might argue I was kinda born that way.

When I saw the movie Equilibrium my first thought when the credits rolled was wishing it existed, and I had watched it, back then - woulda saved a lotta trouble.

And yes, according to some I was damn near BORN cynical, pissed off, and snarky.

I still laugh every time I see this old pic, some things just never do change, do they ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:53 PM

Dude...I thought you'd be...taller.

(Plisskin joke)

The laughing Chrisisall

ANTHONYT

Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:56 PM

Hello,

I believe that picking apart your own core beliefs and analyzing them from time to time is very healthy.

I gave an analogy in the other thread about a life not being a single massive building built on an unchanging foundation, but rather a City full of many buildings and foundations, evolving over time. I used Ancient Egypt as another analogy, or metaphor, for this idea. The first Pyramids were primative, and in some cases poorly designed structures. (Well, though still more impressive than anything I'll ever build!) Over time, better Pyramids were constructed. This is what a Life is to me. Newer buildings of better design on improved foundations until you die.

Justice seemed very simple to me when I was much younger. Black and White. I had no room for people as flawed but beautiful creations. If you made a mistake, then you deserved to get strung up. Then as I got older I started making bigger mistakes. I noticed that people I admired were making mistakes, too. Used to be that I thought Bad Choices = Bad People. I've since learned that even Good People can make Bad Choices from time to time.

I used to be blindly Patriotic. Now I'm Patriotic with eyes wide open. I know the government does bad things for bad reasons sometimes, and they need to get called out on it, or diverted from their path. But thanks to earlier experience I've learned not to hate my government when it does something bad. I just hate the bad things it does.

I think the modern me and the old me could get in some pretty serious arguments if we were to meet today. I'm glad of that fact. It means I'm growing.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I think the modern me and the old me could get in some pretty serious arguments if we were to meet today. I'm glad of that fact. It means I'm growing.

Same here old boy.

The laughing Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:16 PM

Indeed.

I think everyone here prettymuch sees that very dynamic between me and Wulfenstar.

I have quite a few "younger me's" who's heads I try to knock a little sense into on occasion outside the forum as well.

-F

PS - Chris, I get that a lot, one of the most amusing things about being barely 5'6" tall with such a scary reputation.

KWICKO

Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:37 PM

Quote:

I still laugh every time I see this old pic, some things just never do change, do they ?

You mean you still wear sweater-vests?

Just funnin' ya!

YINYANG

Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:39 PM

My core beliefs:

1. There is an objective reality that I am a part of and can affect.
---1a. Everything within this objective reality is (probably) a natural creature which obeys the "laws" of reality (metaphysical naturalism).

2. Life is finite, amazing, and precious.

3. Life is unimportant and meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

4. Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you. (The Silver Rule, which I like much better than the Golden Rule.)

5. ALL people have value.*

6. The only purpose of a person's life is the one they choose.

7. People have the right to do what they wish with their own bodies and selves so long as they do not interfere with the rights of others to do the same.

8. Human beings are fallible.
---8a. I have been wrong, I could be wrong now, and I will be wrong in the future.

I probably forgot a couple, and there's a lot more that I'm still thinking about, like how #5 is speciest and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or if I should extend that to other creatures. And #2 and #3 can be difficult to reconcile sometimes, though not always. I'm also still working on how I should apply these in my life, other than "treat people nice," which is an unsatisfactory answer for me. But I'm young, so (hopefully) I'll have time to work through this stuff.

I'm a big proponent of question one's own beliefs because of #8. Although I usually don't tamper with #1, as it's not good for my mental well-being.

Edit: For my own benefit, here's where the conversation started in the other thread:

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37400#688102

*This one's the newest belief out of all of them. I might have thought it and said it before but not really believed it, until recently.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:

6. The only purpose of a person's life is the one they choose.

How very Star Trek The Motion Picture.

The laughing Chrisisall

WHOZIT

Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:35 PM

I have 1 core belief

Barry likes to eat beef that costs $100 per pound, while children in Chicago eat Cockroaches of the floor.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:43 PM

Hello,

I must confess that if I had the material means, I would also enjoy expensive beef even if somewhere someone was eating insects.

By the way, do we have an article about that? Most kids I know abhor the idea of eating roaches. Even the poor ones.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

AURAPTOR

Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
I have 1 core belief

Barry likes to eat beef that costs $100 per pound, while children in Chicago eat Cockroaches of the floor.

Man, that sentence ALMOST made sense! Congrats.

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.

The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

WHOZIT

Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
I have 1 core belief

Barry likes to eat beef that costs $100 per pound, while children in Chicago eat Cockroaches of the floor.

Man, that sentence ALMOST made sense! Congrats.

"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.

The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.

Thanks, I think I'm getting better.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, March 27, 2009 12:31 AM

Mikey, I could write a BOOK on the commentary my nieces and their friends make about my fashion sense, or in their mind, the lack of it!

And yes, I do still have some vests, one of which is brown velvet with pearl inlaid snaps and sets off a creme yellow turtleneck with white scarf quite nicely - and my old school bankers suit with vest and pocket watch is always a hit, but the top hat has seen better days...

Mostly though, my "look" is late-80's pre-grunge, which my nieces refer to as "salvation army chic".

Of course, that don't stop the younger one from wearing my extremely battered original issue Mk65 US Army Field Jacket now that I've replaced it with a jet black knock off.

-F

PS- And YES, there's a tie-dye t-shirt with a set of bell bottoms in that closet that still fit, since I never got any bigger from age 14 anyhows.

KWICKO

Friday, March 27, 2009 12:56 AM

Cockroaches of the Floor? Are those anything like the Triplets of Bellevue or the Legends of the Fall?

Mike

I'm something of a ne'er-do-well
even though that's something I could never do well...

The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

CHRISISALL

Friday, March 27, 2009 1:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Cockroaches of the Floor?

Beat me to it.

Gonna git me some wild cow- no bovine growth hormone for ME!!

The laughing Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Friday, March 27, 2009 1:35 PM

I'm not sure what you'd call my core 'beliefs'.

Maybe society and the State has no right to decide who lives and who dies. It's certainly forms a core around my opposition to state executions and Health care.

CHRISISALL

Friday, March 27, 2009 8:47 PM

Do you believe in any 'absolutes'?

The laughing Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Friday, March 27, 2009 8:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Do you believe in any 'absolutes'?

I believe you absolutely smell of monkey vomit.

Wouldn't the state having no right to decide who lives and who dies be an absolute?

CHRISISALL

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

I believe you absolutely smell of monkey vomit.

I thought I washed it out...

Quote:

Wouldn't the state having no right to decide who lives and who dies be an absolute?

I was thinkin' like "NO ONE has the right to decide who lives and who dies" to be more of an absolute.

The laughing Chrisisall

CITIZEN

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I was thinkin' like "NO ONE has the right to decide who lives and who dies" to be more of an absolute.

No, under certain situations Doctors do. Medical Triage for instance. But those are medical decisions that are completely unlikely simple retribution (which is basically what executions are all about) or any other decision made at the state level. Individuals on an individual basis, case by case, is a whole different thing to a state deciding who lives and who dies.

I think Individuals should decide whether they can live or die.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, March 28, 2009 2:42 PM

Your reasoning here is beyond question.

The laughing Chrisisall