Inconsistent Language in Firefly and Serenity

POSTED BY: Madrik
UPDATED: Saturday, February 23, 2008 21:16
VIEWED: 31430
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MADRIK

Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:22 PM

My girlfriend is Chinese native and fluent in English. I got her hooked on Firefly and she was able to translate some phrases in Chinese.

She wasn't able to translate all of it. Some of it was something she's never heard before, others were different dialects of Mandarin and others are Cantonese.

I'm sure this is an old topic but she's new to Firefly and thought I'd clarify that in the 'verse of Firefly, I suppose all of China as the superpower converged into one dialect.

WHITESILENCE

Tuesday, December 11, 2007 10:36 PM

My mom and I have the same problem with the Chinese in Firefly/Serenity. I chalk a lot of it up to it just being Hollywood and give them a star for trying.

The actor's pronunciation of 'gou shi' is sort of a cross between Mandarin and Cantonese and if I remember correctly, there's one part where the ship's computer speaks Mandarin with a Cantonese accent or something weird like that.

One thing bothers me, if they meant to use Mandarin and they hired someone to teach the actors how to say it, why didn't they just have the actors learn pin yin?

QUIXOTE13

Friday, December 14, 2007 7:18 AM

Remember that this show is set 500 years into the future--who knows what's happened to the language, if it's converged, or--given that China managed to unify itself under one national dialect--that everybody speaks Mandarin (maybe poorly, maybe well), no matter if they're Chinese or non-Chinese (hence the accents of the actors).

In the real world, though, I have to agree with Hollywood giving it a shot--I've heard that Joss thought it was all one dialect so he didn't know the computer spoke Cantonese while the actors spoke Mandarin.

Can anyone verify this?

Take care,

I.

Invite Beauty: Ivan Chan Studio: www.ivanchan.com

CITIZEN

Friday, December 14, 2007 9:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whitesilence:
The actor's pronunciation of 'gou shi' is sort of a cross between Mandarin and Cantonese and if I remember correctly, there's one part where the ship's computer speaks Mandarin with a Cantonese accent or something weird like that.

One thing bothers me, if they meant to use Mandarin and they hired someone to teach the actors how to say it, why didn't they just have the actors learn pin yin?

It's few off hand phrases here and there, that were meant to give the feeling of Chinese, rather than actual Chinese. It's westerners who can't speak Chinese, speaking Chinese for dumb Westerners who can't speak Chinese, I think the language was more of a prop than a anything.

What they did is record the Chinese for the actors to listen and parrot, but even then it's hard for people used to western languages where intonation is used at the sentence level to properly pronounce words that rely on intonation for meaning.

They did their best, but it's like the "where are all the Asians in the 'Verse" question. They're just behind that wall with the properly pronounced Chinese, best to suspend your disbelief

.

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WHITESILENCE

Friday, December 14, 2007 10:03 AM

As I said, I chalk it up to Hollywood trying and not quite making it.

WHITESILENCE

Friday, December 14, 2007 10:09 AM

Everyone always says that and I'd take it as an excuse if that was what they actually intended, if Joss actually said this in a recorded format somewhere. But it wasn't, he didn't and so I don't.

Given the things I've seen and read, I highly doubt Joss thought Chinese was all one dialect. If he really did as much research I've been told he did (someone told me his wife was Chinese?) and still thought it was all one big language, he must be some kind of moron. Which he is quite obviously not.

CITIZEN

Friday, December 14, 2007 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whitesilence:
As I said, I chalk it up to Hollywood trying and not quite making it.

And I was telling you why they didn't just have the actors learn pin yin, i.e. really not worth the effort.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

HIXIE129

Friday, December 14, 2007 11:45 AM

Wo tong yi

QUIXOTE13

Friday, December 14, 2007 9:40 PM

He's obviously not a moron, but even smart folk can be ignorant of certain things.

Perhaps he didn't think it was one big dialect (which, I guess, would just be called a language, har har), but perhaps he could not tell them apart as he's not used to listening to Chinese.

In sci-fi scripts, oftentimes there's the direction from writers to "put in techno-speak here" or something. The writers could have made the same order without much more thought about how what they wanted said, said. It follows the idea of a previous poster that the language is more of a prop (like background Asians in Firefly).

Overall, I appreciate the world that Joss created. As an Asian person, I've read comics, watched movies, etc. where so much is made up (like street signs) when it could have easily been researched. (Avatar: The Last Airbender is an excellent example of very respectful and well-researched world creating and storytelling). So with Firefly, I really give a lot of leeway because there's a lot of heart in it.

Did anybody watch Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle? There's this part where they translate, "Bring it on, bitch!" into Chinese--and it's translated literally, "Lai ba, mu gou." It sounds ridiculous because it has no cultural context. (But I still think it's funny and interesting--I mean, if you've ever been to Japan, you can see how they slaughter English there because it's a cool and exotic language to them).

The thing I appreciate about Firefly (and Avatar) is that these are not only alternate worlds, they're worlds that have fused East-West into something new, with its own context (and in the case of Firefly, Joss-speak).

Right, I'm rambling.

Take care,

I.

Ivan Chan Studio: Invite Beauty: www.ivanchan.com

FFYING2

Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whitesilence:
The actor's pronunciation of 'gou shi' is sort of a cross between Mandarin and Cantonese

That's probably because it's a cross between Standard Mandarin and Taiwan Mandarin--Mandarin influenced by Canton-bordering-Fujianese/Southern Min (and possibly a little Cantonese-influenced as well).

Ying

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