'Tase me Bro...I deserve it...'

POSTED BY: Hero
UPDATED: Sunday, November 4, 2007 00:40
VIEWED: 20104
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HERO

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:37 PM

Well this puts it all to rest. No charges for the valient police officers confronting a difficult situation and an apology from the man responsible for shaming himself and his university.

http://www.alligator.org/articles/2007/10/30/news/campus/meyer.txt

Now, don't ya all feel a bit silly?

H

RUE

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:40 PM

Cool thing is he got a job out of it all - a great job in fact.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:12 PM

no charges with an apology ? Sounds fair to me. The whole goofy afair could have been avoided.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:17 PM

"In society, as in life, there are consequences for not following the rules," Meyer wrote. "In this instance, not following the rules has imposed consequences for many people other than myself, people who have seen their school, and perhaps their degree, tarnished in the eyes of others through no fault of their own."

Looks like intensive brainwashing at the secret government prison has finally done it's work. Chalk up another victory for 'The Man'.

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:55 PM

"Well this puts it all to rest."

No, it doesn't. Unless you aren't referring to the issue of cops being taser-happy bullies.

"...an apology from the man responsible for shaming himself and his university."

Well, he shamed his university by exposing their brutal tasering policies and the meek student body who let it happen. I'm sure his apology was forced, in order for him to minimize his punishment and avoid the ridiculous felony charges against him.

"Now, don't ya all feel a bit silly?"

No, what on earth for?

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

CAUSAL

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:08 PM

Don't listen to Succatash, Hero. That story brought the biggest grin to my face!

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!`

SERGEANTX

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:23 PM

I didn't really follow this the first time around the block. It's sad that such a ridiculous publicity stunt is being held up as the poster child of tasing. It obscures the sad fact what we've come to accept the notion that it's ok for our police to inject electrodes into someone and shock them into submission. This would be considered torture in a sane society.

From my reading, the guy was clearly being an ass. But that is completely irrelevant to the issue of whether this should be an acceptable police practice.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

RUE

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:51 PM

Causal

"That story brought the biggest grin to my face!"

Whatever happened to seeing the mote in your own eye, turning the other cheek, forgiving 100 times plus one, loving even your enemy ...

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SUCCATASH

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:31 PM

Don't listen to Causal, Rue. He's been grinning like that ever since we invaded Iraq.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:35 PM

At least he's alive.

That guy the RCMP zapped up in vancouver...
He didn't make it.

That's two stiffs for them in less than a week, although alcohol was likely a contributing factor in the first, this most recent had neither alcohol or drugs in his system, and from the incident report was prettymuch killed immediately of apparent heart failure from being tased.

We use an electrical device (pacemaker) to regulate heart function, how hard is it to grasp the fact that a substantive electrical charge to the chest cavity can unregulate that function.

And then they blame some mythical cause that has never once killed anyone outside of police custody.

Anyhows...

This guys apology for being an asshole, something I think was universally accepted even here, by no means absolves the jackbooted thugs who hosed a really simple situation with thier incompetence and ego-authority complex issues, then compounded it by engaging in misrepresentation if not outright deceit in the after action report.

Sure he's an asshole, we knew that, I just don't see where him acknowledging something we all knew from the start relieves the officers in question of responsibility for their own humiliating fuckups.

What does one have to do with the other ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:00 AM

I've thought some about Shepard Book. He had done I guess some pretty bad things - and then tried to repudiate them and redeem himself. As unused to it as he was, he really did try to live by the (holy) book.

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Don't listen to Causal, Rue. He's been grinning like that ever since we invaded Iraq.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Causal
Whatever happened to seeing the mote in your own eye, turning the other cheek, forgiving 100 times plus one, loving even your enemy ...

Rue
Whatever happened to 'Judge not, that ye be not judged'.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:08 AM

I don't pretend to be religious.

But yeah, I forgot that one. Thanks, I'll add that to my list next time.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:17 AM

Ooh! I love Bible verses! Here's one of my favorite passages:

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

-- 2 Kings 2:23-24

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I don't pretend to be religious.

...unless it serves your agenda.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:52 AM

*THHHHWACK!*

Thank you sir! I'll have another!

*THHHHWACK!*
.
.
.
.
.

:hangs head in sadness:

nobody- Rue has never pretended to be religious and is merely pointing out those that pretend to be relgious often seem to miss the whole point of the message of Jesus.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:21 AM

HHhhmmm - I thought that was obvious. Maybe I need to make it even simpler for him.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:11 AM

Quote:
Maybe I need to make it even simpler for him.

I. don't. think. that's. possible.

Oh, wait a minute. That's four words too many... Okay then...

Impossible.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:23 AM

I'd just like to point out that my position on the whole tasing thing doesn't entail any particular view of the Iraq war; it's just silly to think that it would. In point of fact, I think that the Iraq war was a spectacularly bad decision.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:25 AM

Also, before anyone decides that I'm a hypocrite, it might be good to figure out just what it is about the tasing story that I liked. That would be helpful. The mere fact that one can quote religious sound-bites doesn't mean any of them are applicable to the case at hand.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:34 AM

So I'll ask - why WOULD you enjoy the story ?

Not my version of faith - it's the faith in the NT. The one that requires love of god and neighbor - yes, even your enemy - above all. And if that's not what you get out of the NT - what is YOUR version of faith ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I'd just like to point out that my position on the whole tasing thing doesn't entail any particular view of the Iraq war; it's just silly to think that it would. In point of fact, I think that the Iraq war was a spectacularly bad decision.

Sorry, Causal. I was just trying to give you a hard time. Please accept my apologies.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:38 AM

Well, I submit to you that your understanding of the NT Christian faith may be flawed. Now, mine might also be, I'll grant you. But please don't make pronouncements about The Way Things Are, because you might be wrong (and the same is true of me, too, which is why you don't see me saying, "NT says thus-and-so").

What I like about the story is from what I could observe, the young man was in the wrong. He did the wrong thing. That's what it looked like to me when I watched the videos. I smile at the story because he admits as much, in spite of all the hyperventilating on his behalf. He admits that he was wrong. Mine is the simple satisfaction of someone who sees a certain thing in a situation and is confirmed in that perception.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I'd just like to point out that my position on the whole tasing thing doesn't entail any particular view of the Iraq war; it's just silly to think that it would. In point of fact, I think that the Iraq war was a spectacularly bad decision.

Sorry, Causal. I was just trying to give you a hard time. Please accept my apologies.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

Accepted, of course, gladly! My sarcasm detector has been out of calibration lately, could be the source of my soreness. I'm just glad I edited my knee-jerk post--it was full of vitriolic goodness!

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:41 AM

Then I think your understanding of the situation is limited.

So, I'm still curious. What IS your version of NT faith ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:48 AM

How much time've you got?

Seriously, though, here's my only deal: I've put in a ton of study on matters of faith, given that I have a native interest in it, and given my vocational direction. And I still think that my understanding is limited and flawed. So I resist the temptation to simplify things by merely saying, "The NT teaches _________." There are some things that I could say with confidence, "I know what this means." Others, "I'm pretty sure." Still others, "I've got an idea." But there remains much that I don't yet understand. So I'm hesitant to get into doctrinal discussions, because I hold such things loosely.

A single example: the turn-the-other-cheek thing. Now, some have taken this to mean that Christianity is a faith of global pacificism. I think that compelling arguments can be made. But there's a stream of thinking developing (particularly by N.T. Wright) that wants to understand these sorts of statements against the cultural backdrop of first-century Judaism, in which violent resistance to Rome was seen as a viable path for the Jews. According to that line of thinking, Jesus is making a critique of the current structures of his day, and trying to point people in a different direction. Which do I find the more compelling? At the moment, the latter. But I've only just begun my investigation of the point. And until I do, I want to resist the urge to say, "It means this" because the last thing I want to do is commit myself to a view that's wrong.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:00 AM

That interpretation is one I also credit. I think it applies as well to loving even your enemy. Since the land was occupied by the Romans with the help of the Jewish religious collaborationists, there was probably plenty of subterranean hate going around. There was the enemy - in their streets, taking their money, running their lives. And Jesus said - LOVE your enemy. He also said - give unto Caesar - what would have been anathema to Jews chafing under the Romans.

So Jesus understood hatred. And it may even have been well-earned hatred. But he said - give it up. Give to Caesar. Love your enemies. Turn the other cheek. And (this probably spoke more to the Jews of the day than it does to us) he was even crucified at the hands of the enemy he called on people to love. But he forgave them on the cross.

I don't think you have to finesse too much to get that message.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:04 AM

Quote:
What I like about the story is from what I could observe, the young man was in the wrong. He did the wrong thing. That's what it looked like to me when I watched the videos. I smile at the story because he admits as much, in spite of all the hyperventilating on his behalf. He admits that he was wrong. Mine is the simple satisfaction of someone who sees a certain thing in a situation and is confirmed in that perception.

If this young man was wrong: impolite, strident, angry... that doesn't mean the cops were right. If the cops ALSO apologized, I'd be a whole lot happier about the situation. As is is, they walk away feeling justified and their threshold to do the same thing again (taser a person who offers no physical threat to them or anyone) has been lowered.

People like Auraptor and Hero, unlike you perhaps, remind me very much of the kids in Lord of the Flies. Or more to the point, they remind me of the authority-pliant participants in the famous Milgram experiment:

Quote:
After a number of voltage level increases, the learner-actor started to bang on the wall that separated him from the subject. After several times banging on the wall and complaining about his heart condition, all responses by the learner would cease....
At this point, many people indicated their desire to stop the experiment and check on the learner. Some test subjects paused at 135 volts and began to question the purpose of the experiment. Most continued after being assured that they would not be held responsible. A few subjects began to laugh nervously or exhibit other signs of extreme stress once they heard the screams of pain coming from the learner. In Milgram's first set of experiments, 65 percent (26 of 40) of experiment participants administered the experiment's final 450-volt shock, though many were very uncomfortable doing so; at some point, every participant paused and questioned the experiment... (but) No participant steadfastly refused to administer shocks before the 300-volt level.

SO these folks dance around with glee when someone screams in pain because he offends their sense of... whatever.

THIS is the kind of fascist behavior that they supposedly fight against. But when THEY do it that's different.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

LEADB

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:09 AM

I'm glad to see Meyers own up to his part of the problem; but I'm still not clear the police handled the situation as well as they could have.

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:12 AM

I've heard an interesting theory about "turning the other cheek."

When a Roman would slap a Jew, he would do it back handed, because that is a sign of disrespect and inequality. To not hit backhanded was actually a sign of respect and equality.

Also, only one hand was for slapping, and the other hand was supposed to be kept clean.

So when the Jew turns the other cheek, the Roman can't backhand him, and is forced to treat him as an equal, if he wants to hit him again.

Or something like that.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:01 AM

I've heard that too, Tash.. no idea where it came from or if it's just myth.

As far as religion goes, I have an extremely simplistic but effective method of it's measure.

I do not care one whit what someone believes, I care what they DO.

Simple as that.

-F

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:58 AM

Heh....

As if this wasn't completely forced. I just said I don't believe in the Holocaust in the other thread. As if I'd buy this... right.

For the record, I also don't buy that we ever went to the moon either.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

LEADB

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:28 AM

I didn't go to the moon either, but if I remember correctly, Neil Armstrong did.

ARCLIGHT

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:18 PM

"...From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

-- 2 Kings 2:23-24"

It's an early example of KARMA.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:26 PM

Hey!

Did Alice Kramden ever get to the moon?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:27 PM

Interesting how the thread's become a referendum on religion.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

LEADB

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:34 PM

It has strayed a bit, hasn't it.

Hi Causal, nice to see you in the neighborhood again!

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
It has strayed a bit, hasn't it.

Hi Causal, nice to see you in the neighborhood again!

Likewise. What are your thoughts on the whole tasering thing?

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

LEADB

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:30 PM

For full details, I'd have to say see the original thread. Wrote volumes.

In short, I thought the police overreacted; they should instead have situated themselves between Meyers and the stage; then clearly ordered Meyers to leave (though I'm not clear they had the authority to do that; perhaps that has since been settled). I think by grabbing him and such they tended to escalate the situation. Now, had they handled it better, would it have come to a tasering? Not sure.

One thing I was trying to 'advocate' was that use of taser should be reviewed after the fact, and such review should include 'community participants' (ie: someone besides police); and I gather in this case it was to be review, though I'm not clear on who was to participate. I have to admit, it's dropped off my radar screen a bit.

(Edit: I assume you were asking mostly about Meyers. If you meant in general, I'm concerned there's excessive reliance on tasers; and thus the community review, increased training, etc. comments in my original posting would be most applicable)

HERO

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Whatever happened to seeing the mote in your own eye, turning the other cheek, forgiving 100 times plus one, loving even your enemy ...

If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?

H

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 1:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
nobody- Rue has never pretended to be religious and is merely pointing out those that pretend to be relgious often seem to miss the whole point of the message of Jesus.

Rue got all of that from Causal's one sentence, I'm impressed.
And what about doing unto others? What do you think was meant by that?

It seems rather convenient that you will support Rue's interpretations but not Causal's, why do you suppose that is? I have never seen you disagree with Rue even though she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO. Has Rue ever turned the other cheek?

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Maybe I need to make it even simpler for him.
I. don't. think. that's. possible.

Oh, wait a minute. That's four words too many... Okay then...

Impossible.

That may be, but don't give up on me yet.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:36 PM

BiggusD

"she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO"

Which I plainly and repeatedly have said I don't follow.

So, let's make this about you. What are your leanings ? Do YOU claim to follow the teachings of Christ ? If so, why do post only to attack people you are enjoined to love ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:37 PM

'Hero'

"If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?"

People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
BiggusD
"she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO"
Which I plainly and repeatedly have said I don't follow.

So you only pretend to be religious when it suits your agenda of attacking other peoples beliefs? Kinda right back where we started huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So, let's make this about you. What are your leanings ?

agnostic.

Quote:
Do YOU claim to follow the teachings of Christ ?

No.

Quote:
If so, why do post only to attack people you are enjoined to love ?

I engage you because, quite frankly, you often rub me the wrong way so to speak.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
BiggusD

"she often strays from the teachings of Jesus in her posts IMHO"

Which I plainly and repeatedly have said I don't follow.

No snark here at all, please don't read me this way. But the fact that you don't follow "the teachings of Jesus" is the main reason why I'm not overly concerned with your diagnosis of hypocrisy. I mean, goodness, I'm not going to accuse Chrisisall of being a bad Buddhist--I'm not one myself, so I'm not really sure I have any business saying he's a bad one. You don't buy into Christianity, so why should I take seriously your interpretations of the same? I don't mean that to be offensive. If you want to criticize me for something, criticize me for being an asshole or some such--but don't criticize me for being unfaithful to a faith you don't even believe to be true in the first place!

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
'Hero'

"If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?"

People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

Mmm...ad hominem...

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

HERO

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

People are people. Who doesn't laugh when some jackass has something humiliating and painful (but with no real injury or long term damage) happen to them.

Its like watching Funniest Videos of folk getting a ball hit into their crotch or falling down. Its funny.

I've never seen a taser video that wasn't downright funny or at least midly amusing.

H

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:30 PM

"You don't buy into Christianity, so why should I take seriously your interpretations of the same?"

I actually took it very seriously for a while. I was very concerned with its real message. And that doesn't mean I've stopped studying it (and other religions).

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:33 PM

"I've never seen a taser video that wasn't downright funny or at least midly amusing."

That says quite a bit about you. I'm not sure you should be admitting this in public as a public offcial, even anonymously. OOPS. Too late.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:40 PM

"So you only pretend to be religious when it suits your agenda of attacking other peoples beliefs"

No, I criticize people when I see contradictions between words and actions. If I knew more about the Jewish faith I'd probably be making those criticisms too of people who say they're following the religion but not actually practicing it. I don't pretend to be religious.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

ESTEAD

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:46 PM

Originally posted by leadb:

Quote:
...I'm not clear they had the authority to do that; perhaps that has since been settled

http://www.president.ufl.edu/incident/FDLE-Executive-Summary.pdf

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 3:57 PM

Quote:
'Hero'

"If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?"

People who aren't sociopaths, like you obviously are.

Quote:
Causal

Mmm...ad hominem...

Just reflecting it back to 'Hero'. His post implies that if you don't find humor in people being hurt then you're a humorless drone. B/c don't real people find it funny ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:04 PM

Quote:
People are people. Who doesn't laugh when some jackass has something humiliating and painful (but with no real injury or long term damage) happen to them. Its like watching Funniest Videos of folk getting a ball hit into their crotch or falling down. Its funny. I've never seen a taser video that wasn't downright funny or at least midly amusing.

Oh.

Dear.

The real Hero just stood up.

QUICK! SIT DOWN! You're embarassing yourself!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:15 PM

S'wenyways, back on topic -

I find the use of tasers as a means of gaining compliance in EVERY situation - time limits on speaking for example - to be disproportionate. Whatever happened to gavelling a meeting back to order ? When it comes down to it, what Meyer did 'wrong' was to speak more than 1 minute. And for that he got physically apprehended and then tasered when he was already on the ground.

Also, I suspect coercion was a deciding factor in Meyer's 'apology'. Anyone who accepts the use of coercion in extracting confessions and apologies should take a look at the US NV POW confessions - because that is what you are ultimately supporting.

And while the police may have followed 'policy' it doesn't mean that policy will stand up to scrutiny. I'm not sure that it will be pursued though. Meyer has a good job already and may not have the time and interest in changing the policy which is clearly too broad and vague.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

JARHEAD

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:33 PM

The reason cops overuse their tasers is because in MOST people the effects wear off very quickly, unlike say cracking them over the head with a baton. Of course it hurts, thats why it works.

And besides, in this situation they were going to let the kid prattle on, but then he had to mention Skull & Bones - cue "cut" gesture from person in suit and several college cops ushering the guy out. Now everyone's sorry, noone is going to be sued, and as a consequence none(read tasree) is going to jail out of spite. All better now.

I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:42 PM

The effect may wear off, the memory lingers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroshock_weapon
"Electroshock weapon technology uses a temporary high-voltage low-current electrical discharge to override the body's muscle-triggering mechanisms. The recipient feels great pain, and can be momentarily paralyzed while an electric current is being applied.

Although TASERs were originally proposed as alternatives to lethal force, they have entered routine use as a method to gain compliance at times when the use of firearms would not be considered.

Some TASER devices, particularly those used by police departments, also have a "Drive Stun" capability, where the taser is held against the target without firing barbs and is intended to cause pain without incapacitating the target. TASER defines "Drive Stun" as "the process of using the EMD weapon as a pain compliance technique."

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SUCCATASH

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
But the fact that you don't follow "the teachings of Jesus" is the main reason why I'm not overly concerned with your diagnosis of hypocrisy. You don't buy into Christianity, so why should I take seriously your interpretations of the same? ...but don't criticize me for being unfaithful to a faith you don't even believe to be true in the first place!

I don't understand your logic, Causal. The teachings of Jesus aren't a secret, and you don't have to be a Christian to know what he taught.

Al Gore preaches about Global Warming, but he has a huge house that wastes electricity. By your logic, only people who believe in global warming have the right to call him a hypocrite. But that doesn't make sense.

You can call anyone a hypocrite when they say one thing and do the opposite. It doesn't matter what team you're on or what group you belong to.

.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
I don't understand your logic, Causal. The teachings of Jesus aren't a secret, and you don't have to be a Christian to know what he taught.

Al Gore preaches about Global Warming, but he has a huge house that wastes electricity. By your logic, only people who believe in global warming have the right to call him a hypocrite. But that doesn't make sense.

You can call anyone a hypocrite when they say one thing and do the opposite. It doesn't matter what team you're on or what group you belong to.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

On the first point, what Jesus taught isn't the end of what Christianity teaches. Just a minor point, but one that bears pointing out. So we could be say instead "I understand what Christianity teaches" or "You're not adhering to what Christianity teaches." Because often I've observed that people criticize Christians for failing to follow "what Jesus taught"--but those same people reject the teachings of Paul or James or other parts of the NT or OT. And if one makes that sort of criticism, I feel pretty justified in ignoring them because it reflects a fundamental lack of understanding to think that one could divorce the teachings of Jesus from the rest of the biblical teaching. It would be something akin to saying, "Al Gore claims to be an environmentalist, but he drives a car!" Well, wait a tick, who said that you can't drive a car and be an environmentalist? Such a statement would indicate a lack of real understanding of what it means to be an environmentalist. Likewise, I think most people don't really understand what it means to be a faithful Christian and because they don't, their criticisms usually reflect on their own ignorance more than on the target of their criticism. No that's obviously not always the case, but that's what I've observed more often than not. In terms of the particular case at hand, Rue is using, for instance, the passage about loving one's enemy. But that kid isn't my enemy, and the issue for me isn't whether I love him or not. So while she's shown a capacity for finding and deploying a paraphrase of Jesus' sayings, they're not really being deployed in the right way.

On the second point, you say (quite rightly) that you can call someone a hypocrite any time they say one thing and do another, regardless of what "team" you're on. This certainly seems to be true. But when I say that I'm happy about the tasering story because it shows that the kid was, after all, in the wrong, I fail to see how this shows I'm saying one thing and doing another. My satisfaction with this whole story is that from the outset I thought the cops were in the right and the student in the wrong. So to have the student admit as much is satisfying to me. How does that show that I've said one thing and done another? "Mote in the eye" doesn't apply to the case at hand (that being my satisfaction with the story) nor does "love your enemy." In my perception, Rue is claiming that I'm being hypocritical by misapplying biblical sayings of Jesus, none of which actually demonstrate that I've said one thing and done another. I'm happy to grant you that an instance of saying one thing and doing another constitutes an act of hypocrisy, and that one need not be on the same team to call it such. But unless one really understands what would constitute saying one thing and doing another (and I've not seen such an understanding demonstrated) one can't accurately say that such an act of hypocrisy has occurred. If a hard-core determinist scientist says, "If we had perfect knowledge of the laws of nature and perfect knowledge of initial conditions, we could perfectly predict any event," and then says, "There's no way to tell if a quark is going to be an up-down quark or a spinny quark," do we get to call him a hypocrite? Maybe; but if we did, it would be because we don't know what he's talking about. If we did, we'd realize that the apparent conflict between the two statements arises out

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:47 PM

"the kid was, after all, in the wrong"

That's the mote in your brother's eye you are so closely focused on. And in this case it clearly is a mote. His major crime was to take a few seconds too long at the microphone. Not threatening - just taking a few seconds - maybe 20 - too long. At least, that's what it was if you believe the police version of the story. I suspect if he'd taken too long praising Kerry he would have been allowed to go on - no matter how long it took.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:25 PM

I can't see that the young man was as wrong as the cops. His "crime" was to talk too long. OTOH, the cops tasered him while he was on the ground, under a pile of security. I understand he's not being charged, which is prolly the deal he got for apologizing. OTOH, I would really like to see the cops apologize for their various mistakes and mis-steps too.

---------------------------------
With great power goes great responsibility. Unless you're Hero, in which case you get to be a jackass.

LEADB

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:28 PM

Sorry to interupt the religion discussion; feel free to carry on after this interuption...

Quote:
Originally posted by estead:
Originally posted by leadb:
Quote:
...I'm not clear they had the authority to do that; perhaps that has since been settled

http://www.president.ufl.edu/incident/FDLE-Executive-Summary.pdf

Thanks! Obviously, not everything is done 'cooking' yet; but it does apparently address most of my concerns. It would be nice to get Meyer's 'take' on the report; though at this point, he might be afraid to rock the boat and disagree with much in it.
It sounds like the police operated within policy, so they should be free of disciplinary action. I gather there is still a pending assessment as to whether Meyer's actions constituted an arrest-able action; but my guess is they will say the police were 'ok' in having made the arrest. At this point, I do hope they review policy and perhaps make a few changes to encourage more aspects of deescalation techniques.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:32 PM

Lawyer says student Tasered at Kerry speech won't be charged
ORLANDO, Fla. --A University of Florida student who was shocked with a Taser after persistently questioning Sen. John Kerry will avoid criminal charges by apologizing and complying with terms of a voluntary 18-month probation, authorities said Tuesday.

www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/10/30/
lawyer_says_student_tasered_at_kerry_speech_wont_be_charged/

URL broken up to prevent wide display

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

HERO

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
That says quite a bit about you. I'm not sure you should be admitting this in public as a public offcial, even anonymously. OOPS. Too late.

I guess you'd prefer I "feel their pain". The problem is I care, I really care about the jackasses who can't control themselves.

Thats why I much prefer them tased then seeing them killed or seriously injured

.

Perhaps my joy is partly because of my humanity and my knowledge that not so long ago it'd be billy clubs and boot heels

(or choke holds and tear gas...take your pick really).

H

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:34 PM

If we can't laugh at some jackass getting tased...then where are we as a people?

I've never seen a taser video that wasn't downright funny or at least midly amusing.

Hero, YOUR problem is that you think tasing is FUNNY. I'll bet you thought Abu Ghraib was a laugh a minute! And waterboarding? Better than Jackass any day!

You have a sociopathic streak. It shows every now and then, altho you try to cover it up. Were you abused as a child?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"the kid was, after all, in the wrong"

That's the mote in your brother's eye you are so closely focused on. And in this case it clearly is a mote.

This is a signal example of the sort of misunderstanding I'm talking about. The mote-speck thing you bring up is from the beginning of Matthew chapter 7, verses 1 through 5. Jesus is exhorting his hearers not to be judgmental. He says, "Don't point out the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye when you have a giant log in your own!" That's just hypocritical--you've both got something in your eye, so don't judge your brother. What's in view here is judgment and hypocrisy. If I were lambasting Meyer for something I myself have done, that would be a clear case of hypocrisy. But that's not what's going on--I've never been in his position to have done things differently, so I'm not being hypocritical in that sense. Perhaps I'm being a hypocrite in the judgmental sense, though. Well, here is where the misinterpretation comes in. There's a difference between being discerning and being judgmental. Being discerning means looking at things clearly, understanding them for what they really are. Judgment, on the other hand, carries with it condemnation. I'm not saying, "Wicked, wicked Meyer! Sinner! Bound to burn in hell! Terrible person!" That would be judgment. I am, on the other hand, being discerning--he resisted arrested with violence (according to the police), and that's against the law; it's not judgmental to recognize that fact, it's discerning. And it is judgment that Jesus is talking about in Matthew 7, so the passage is misapplied.

Quote:
His major crime was to take a few seconds too long at the microphone. Not threatening - just taking a few seconds - maybe 20 - too long. At least, that's what it was if you believe the police version of the story. I suspect if he'd taken too long praising Kerry he would have been allowed to go on - no matter how long it took.

Well, his major crime was resisting arrest with violence, according to the police.

I don't really want to talk about this anymore, though, because this conversation has been really quite painful. I hold an opinion on the Andrew Meyer issue, and I understand that it's a minority opinion. But I'm being personally attacked, and I find that both emotionally painful and, frankly, very personally offensive. I'm not just wrong on the Meyer issue, I'm a bad person, and not only that, but I'm a bad Christian. That cuts right to the heart of who I am as a person, and to be honest it hurts. I find the propensity to make personal attacks on people deeply troubling; if you think I'm wrong on something, tell me why--maybe I'll come around, maybe we'll have to agree to disagree. But don't say, "You're a bad person, a hypocrite and a lousy Christian to boot." That's not an argument (in the classical sense)--that's just a fight. I'd like to think we could discuss these things with at least some degree of civility (if not calmness), but that just doesn't seem to be the case. I don't feel safe on these boards. Even if most people disagree with me, it would be possible to feel safe and welcome. But increasingly, I just don't feel safe or welcome here at Fireflyfans.net. And that just makes me really sad.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:50 PM

Ye have become as the Pharisees who either love the fruit and hate the tree, or love the tree and hate the fruit.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Ye have become as the Pharisees who either love the fruit and hate the tree, or love the tree and hate the fruit.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

So, why do you keep doing it? That's all I really want to know. We disagree on the Meyer issue, and that's OK; but why do you continue to attack me personally?

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CITIZEN

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:56 PM

Because you smell of crusty old man juice.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CITIZEN

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:56 PM

Cheese, mouldy cheese.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:00 PM

I'd really like an answer, actually, funny though Citizen's theories are. Why would we start making personal attacks on each other like this? Why is this OK with us? Why do this?

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:19 PM

Hey CAUSAL I get your point: Your intepretation of Xtianity is not the same as Rue's and therefore in your intepretation you are not being hypocritical. Right?

So unless we want to go on a long discussion of whose interpretation of Xtianity is more valid, I suggest we just let this drop.

PS CITIZEN: Eeeeewwwww!!!!!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:19 PM

"So, why do you keep doing it? ... why do you continue to attack me personally?"

It was addressing your position. I thought your parsing of the NT - the oft repeated lessons about NOT judging, NOT fault-finding - he who is without sin etc - was very - off the mark.

I could probably find a couple dozen parables and quotes that all say the same thing - don't be righteous, don't be judgmental, don't punish people, don't criticize, forgive ... LOVE above all - everyone - your neighbor, your friend, your enemy, the stranger - and even Meyer. And somehow you seem to miss the very point of the NT and find satisfaction that he was wrong and you were right, and that he was corrected to your way of thinking.

And when you parse out a word or two to completely miss the intent - Meyer isn't my enemy (or my neighbor, or brother, or a stranger lying by the side of the road) so this doesn't apply, exactly - it makes me think ye have become as the Pharisees - your postition is bass-ackwards to the meaning of the NT. You love the religion but not the message.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CITIZEN

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:38 PM

Theres a fair few arseholes on this site. And theres a few decent people. Theres a few decent people who get fucked off with the arseholes and occassionally end up acting like them.

Casual ain't an arsehole Rue, and neither are you. Careful who you take out the arsehole blowback on, know what I mean

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:50 PM

I hope that didn't come across as treating him like he's an arsehole. Did it ?? It's not what I meant.

He wanted to know what I had an issue with - and it's his position on religion, which I find to be strangely contorted. I was trying to use language - the Pharisee quote - I thought he might understand.

But if you really think it's not appropriate I'll take it down.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:58 PM

Thanks Cit.

Rue... we got it already.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hey CAUSAL I get your point: Your intepretation of Xtianity is not the same as Rue's and therefore in your intepretation you are not being hypocritical. Right?

So unless we want to go on a long discussion of whose interpretation of Xtianity is more valid, I suggest we just let this drop.

Actually, it's not so much that as the personal attacks, but hey. We all pick our issues.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"So, why do you keep doing it? ... why do you continue to attack me personally?"

It was addressing your position. I thought your parsing of the NT - the oft repeated lessons about NOT judging, NOT fault-finding - he who is without sin etc - was very - off the mark.

I could probably find a couple dozen parables and quotes that all say the same thing - don't be righteous, don't be judgmental, don't punish people, don't criticize, forgive ... LOVE above all - everyone - your neighbor, your friend, your enemy, the stranger - and even Meyer. And somehow you seem to miss the very point of the NT and find satisfaction that he was wrong and you were right, and that he was corrected to your way of thinking.

And when you parse out a word or two to completely miss the intent - Meyer isn't my enemy (or my neighbor, or brother, or a stranger lying by the side of the road) so this doesn't apply, exactly - it makes me think ye have become as the Pharisees - your postition is bass-ackwards to the meaning of the NT. You love the religion but not the message.

Of course, we both think the other is doing misinterpretation. That's not what bothers me, Rue. It's being personally attacked that bothers me. I think you're interpretation is flawed, but I'm not judging that. You think mine is flawed, and I have become as like unto the Pharisees (which is, by the way, from the Gospel of Thomas, which is recognized as canonical anyway). I can agree to disagree with you over the issue of Mr Meyer. But why does our disagreement allow for you to make personal attacks on me?

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:29 PM

I think the closest I came to criticizing you personally was the Pharisee quote - which btw I do know comes from the Gospel of Thomas - it's one of my favorite religious writings, along with the Tao ---- but I digress.

How can a person disagree with your logic, position or indeed any statement without you taking it as a personal attack ? How does it have to be couched ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:32 PM

Well, you seem to have been saying that you were saying that not only was I wrong, but that I was a hypocrite and a bad Christian to boot (you said I'd "missed the whole point of the NT"). I suppose it's possible that that wasn't your intent, though I'm confused why you would bring my faith into the matter if that were so. But it is, of course, also possible that I misinterpreted the whole thing. I'm only yet an imperfect creature.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

LEADB

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:40 PM

"I'm only yet an imperfect creature. " Yeh, me too. Lots of that going around.

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:48 PM

Sorry, I had some ahem work to do.

If I conclude that you are indeed "missing the whole point of the NT", is there a way for me to disagree with your interpretation without invoking in you a feeling of being personally attacked ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Sorry, I had some ahem work to do.

If I conclude that you are indeed "missing the whole point of the NT", is there a way for me to disagree with your interpretation without invoking a feeling of being personally attacked ?

Well, the eggs were already broken at that point, so to speak. We were talking about interpretation of faith because it seemed to me that you were calling me a hypocrite. And it was that that I objected to. No reason (that I can see) to draw a person's faith into the issue unless you want to show what an ass they are (e.g. "Look, everybody! He's a real hypocrite!"). Again, though, that may not have been your intent.

In brief, there's agreeing to disagree (which I'm OK with) and there's disagreement that becomes personal. It's the latter that I felt was happening, and that's what I objected to. I don't agree with your interpretation, but I'm not going to be so bold as to say, "You're missing the whole point." Because after all, I could be wrong, and so could you.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:06 PM

Uh, the person to use the word hypocite was you.

I questioned your response, which I thought was uncharitable and contradicted by the NT. (And still do btw.) Since you posted your response, I discussed it. But you said disagreeing with your response was a personal attack.

So, how can one disagree with you and not have it taken as a personal attack ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I questioned your response, which I thought was uncharitable and contradicted by the NT. (And still do btw.) Since you posted your response, I discussed it. But you said disagreeing with your response was a personal attack.

Perhaps you can explain what Causal's interpretation of the NT has to do with the thread's topic for starters.

CAUSAL

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Uh, the person to use the word hypocite was you.

I questioned your response, which I thought was uncharitable and contradicted by the NT. (And still do btw.) Since you posted your response, I discussed it. But you said disagreeing with your response was a personal attack.

So, how can one disagree with you and not have it taken as a personal attack?

It's fine by me if you disagree with my interpretation, no problem. It's only ever the way it's gone about. I thought you were being a mite confrontational and personal (after all, one doesn't actually have to use the word "hypocrite" to call someone one!

).

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:36 PM

BiggusD

Thread topic:
"Tase me Bro...I deserve it..." - with glee.

Sound like the NT message to you ? And, how could a religious person actually approve of this ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

RUE

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:38 PM

Causal -

I will try a different approach with you then. (And apologies ahead of time if I forget and slip up.)

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Thread topic:
"Tase me Bro...I deserve it..." - with glee.

Sound like the NT message to you ? And, how could a religious person actually approve of this ?

So it was an unprovoked challenge of another Posters beliefs. Gee, don't know how that could have been misconstrued.

BADKARMA00

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:01 AM

Don't see what the big deal is. By the accounts I've read, the man was in the wrong, and the officers took him down using non-lethal means. And yes, I am aware that there have been serveral fatalities blamed on the use of electronic devices. The fatality rate for gunshots is still a bit higher though.
DOn't judge a police officer until you've worn his badge and walked his beat. It's not the safest job in the world, and they have as much right to protect themselves as any of us do.
There are officers, no question, who abuse their authority, I don't dispute that. But not all of them do, and most take their job very seriously.
Til ya been there, try not to judge.

Bad_karma

RUE

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:08 AM

BiggusD

"another Posters beliefs"

Not his beliefs - his position. And aren't we here to - you know - discuss ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

RUE

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:11 AM

You mighta missed the post where it says police routinely use tasers get compliance. It used to be a non-lethal way to stop an attack. Now it's a torture tool.

***************************************************************
Smile when you say that.

I said smile ... ZZZZZZZZZT !

CITIZEN

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
So it was an unprovoked challenge of another Posters beliefs. Gee, don't know how that could have been misconstrued.

Since the two posters involved seem to have come to an understanding, maybe the best thing to do would be let it drop rather than try and stir it back up again, eh?

Quote:
Originally posted by badkarma00:
Til ya been there, try not to judge.

The Job of a police officer is to enforce the mandated authority of government. It is the job of members of society to question the actions of same.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Since the two posters involved seem to have come to an understanding, maybe the best thing to do would be let it drop rather than try and stir it back up again, eh?

I have been involved from the start and continue to be.

I was responding to Rue's post to me, not Causal.

I don't know how the rest of us managed in the
absence of your unbiased mediation.

CITIZEN

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
I don't know how the rest of us managed in the
absence of your unbiased mediation.

Well, they had you obviously.

Though what problem you could have with me asking some of the generally more reasonable members of the forum to back off a bit, I have no idea.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

RUE

Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:33 AM

BiggusD

OOOHHH - the voice of reason ! (not)

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

HERO

Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Theres a fair few arseholes on this site. And theres a few decent people.

Its funny how often you mix the two up...especially when looking in the mirror.

H

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Though what problem you could have with me asking some of the generally more reasonable members of the forum to back off a bit, I have no idea.

My apologies, I admit I was confused.
The last time we exchanged posts you spoke to my character and reasonable, from what I can remember, was not even on the map. Glad to see I'm growing on you.

RUE

Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:26 AM

'Hero'

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Theres a fair few arseholes on this site. And theres a few decent people.

Originally posted by Hero:
Its funny how often you mix the two up...especially when looking in the mirror.

You're boring.

***************************************************************
And you have a really lame sense of humor, except when it's also creepy and sociopathic. And then you hit the trifecta.

RUE

Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:29 AM

BiggusD

No snide comments to 'Hero' ?

I thought not. You apparently have the great sense (ironically) to think he's all right.

But I rub you the wrong way. What a freakin' joke.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SUCCATASH

Thursday, November 1, 2007 1:52 AM

LOL, technically Causal started making things personal at the beginning of this thread.

I felt like he verbally punched me in the face!

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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