CRISIS: OPPORTUNITY
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Monday, April 23, 2007 19:43
VIEWED: 2568
PAGE 1 of 2
The threads on guns, the NASA shooting, Cho, Baldwin, Iraq, and global warming all have a common theme, which is that we have reached a crisis point. It may be coming clear that the old solutions - just more and harder- are not the answer. The answer to guns isn't more guns, the answer violence isn't retribution, and the answer to poverty isn't creating a class of super-wealthy.
It's very difficult to give up responses that we've relied on our whole lives. Identifying an enemy and then allowing ourselves to do exactly what "the enemy" does (for the good of course!) creates a sense of power and liberation. Identifying with the average joe, not the billionaires of the world, is painful.
But within this small community I sense that perhaps we have come to the nub of the problems that face us: we cannot build a society on anger, fear, and denial. A crisis can be unprecedented opportunity to look at our dreams and hopes, and see if they're useful or poisonous. A crisis can itself be liberating. It can allow us to consider entirely new ideas, breathe fresh air. Am I the only one who feels we've reached this point?
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The answer to guns isn't more guns, the answer violence isn't retribution, and the answer to poverty isn't creating a class of super-wealthy.
Retribution: Can mean vengeance, but also means a "justly deserved penalty; the act of correcting for your wrongdoing."
I would say the answer to wackos with guns is allowing good citizens to defend themselves. The answer to violence is justice and compensation. The answer to poverty is learning a trade or skill, how to read and talk, and a good work ethic. And not having too many babies.
"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."
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Succatash, did you ever think to contol the controllers? Think about "just punishment" for a moment: We have the highest crime rate in the devleoped world and the highest incarceration rate. Is punishment working for us? Does it reduce or deter crime? And if it's not reducing crime, why do we enagage in it? Just so we can indulge in feeling righteous?
We will know when we've hit on the answer when we start seeing dramatic positive effects. Like finding the right medicine for an illness. We're a little like the Aztecs who thought the answer to drought was more human sacrifice. We keep pushing a button that's not working. So for now we're not even floundering, we're sinking in quicksand of our own making.
As a friend says: "Manipulate your stimuli." Or as I say....
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Always look upstream.
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You can't just not have punishment for crime, though. I think you're right that our standard institutional solutions aren't working (for what it's worth, I think you'd really enjoy Morris Berman's Twilight of American Culture which says that one sign of the decline of the west is "declining return on instututional solutions to society's problems"). But let's be honest: we'll never see the end of war, violence, crime, or poverty. We'll never be able to eliminate them entirely. So we have to deal with them somehow. Prison obviously isn't working. Maybe we should try something else. Maybe we should try some other way than inprisoning people. The trouble is that we in the west think that imprisoning people is the only humane way to punish people. Perhaps we need to reconsider that stance. Unless someone has a different suggestion?
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I really don’t see how you can have a free society and at the same time make everyone be nice.
Hey, I have an idea: Let’s tell everyone that there is an invisible higher being. This higher being not only created us and the universe, but also LOVES us and wants to be our friend. We can tell society that if they be nice, they will live forever in glory and pleasure. But if they are not nice, they will suffer forever in everlasting torment and extreme suffering. Once a week, they can gather in a building and convince each other to surrender their lives to this higher being.
That ought to keep everyone in line.
"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."
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I am told that it is safer to commit a crime in the US/UK than in continental Europe, in the sense that (time in jail) x (chance of being caught) is higher in Europe.
I am also told that crime rates on the continent are lower, and that is why they have fewer people in prison.
Just a thought.
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Is it possible that punishment - or at least abuse that a punishing culture encourages- creates crime?
It's like the trolls on this board, and every other board: outrage just doesn't work. Ignoring them? Tough to do, requires self control, but MUCH more effective. Or we can keep pushing useless buttons. Some of the answers may be found in game theory and economic theory. It will take some very serious theoretical work to understand hwo we react as individuals and in groups.
But there have been cultures- advanced cultures, for their day- which were peaceful and prosperous. Mohenjo-Daro and the Minoan cultures for example. Just as there are peaceful, propserous, and happy nations today like Iceland. One of the hallmarks of ALL of these cultures is the relative economic equality of their participants. That by itself doesn't guarantee happiness and peace but it seems to be an essential ingredient.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
I really don’t see how you can have a free society and at the same time make everyone be nice.
Hey, I have an idea: Let’s tell everyone that there is an invisible higher being. This higher being not only created us and the universe, but also LOVES us and wants to be our friend. We can tell society that if they be nice, they will live forever in glory and pleasure. But if they are not nice, they will suffer forever in everlasting torment and extreme suffering. Once a week, they can gather in a building and convince each other to surrender their lives to this higher being.
That ought to keep everyone in line.
"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."
I'm always amused by this line of thinking about religion. If that were the impetus for religion I'd think we'd have given it up long ago. It doesn't seem to be effective, if the end is to make everyone get along.
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- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
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Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Hey, I have an idea: Let’s tell everyone that there is an invisible higher being. This higher being not only created us and the universe, but also LOVES us and wants to be our friend. We can tell society that if they be nice, they will live forever in glory and pleasure. But if they are not nice, they will suffer forever in everlasting torment and extreme suffering. Once a week, they can gather in a building and convince each other to surrender their lives to this higher being.
That ought to keep everyone in line.
Ya left out the part where you have to convert the unbelievers for their own good, even if it means killing them, torturing them, burning them alive.
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrowncoat:
Ya left out the part where you have to convert the unbelievers for their own good, even if it means killing them, torturing them, burning them alive.
You know, it occurs to me that if there were anybody around who were a member of a religious group, this sort of comment might be just a tad offensive. Sort of like making sweeping generalizations about race or sex.
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- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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