Tax reform.
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:55
VIEWED: 6117
PAGE 1 of 8
I really should post this around April 1. But this is one of those nagging tooth aches of modern civilization. I not only do our income taxes (w/o TurboTax) I also do employer (State and Federal) taxes, and to tell you the truth those stupid rules just get longer and stoopider every year!
So, if you could sweep away the welter of Federal taxes... income, corporate, and "speciality" taxes... and replace them with something else, what would you choose? And why?
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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I think excise taxes and tariffs should provide what we need for a limited government if we don't get into a war every 15 years. If we have to have more, I'd vote for sales tax on non-food/non-medicinal items. Definitely abolish income tax and social security tax and all that junk. If they had to tighten their belt, they'd HAVE to spend more wisely.
I would make taxation as voluntary as possible, which is why I favor sales taxes over all the other stuff. We seem to have so little say in where our tax dollars go (I said I didn't want to pay for no war, but did they listen?). I think we should make it easier for people to withhold their tax dollars to voice their dissent with govt spending.
There's been a lot of talk about a national flat sales tax of 23% to replace the income tax. If that came to a vote today, I'd say yes. It's not the greatest, but it beats the IRS.
http://www.fairtax.org/
Can't Take My Gorram Sky 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, if you could sweep away the welter of Federal taxes... corporate, sales, and "speciality" taxes... and replace them with something else, what would you choose? And why?
I'd replace them with doughnuts. I mean every year the government sends out the tax forms and we send them back.
Now suppose sometime around the end of January you instead received a box of Krispy Kremes...wouldn't that make you feel better?
But then some Democrat out there would argue that there isn't enough diversity. Soon our box of doughnuts would be supplemented by danishes, bear claws, croissants, fruit, etc.
Edited to add: AND then doughnuts are bad for us, then anything that tastes good and soon the liberal elites, who never lack doughnuts for themselves, have replaced all of our doughnuts with bran muffins and prunes and 'I can't believe its not butter'. Well I want butter, damn it, real butter and I want a glazed doughnut covered with real butter...and its hole stuffed with...bacon and the whole damn thing deep fried and dipped in chocolate...damn liberals anyway. And some idiot will be asking 'why bran muffins that nobody wants, how bout we all just pay a little money instead?'
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I think excise taxes and tariffs should provide what we need for a limited government if we don't get into a war every 15 years. If we have to have more, I'd vote for sales tax on non-food/non-medicinal items. Definitely abolish income tax and social security tax and all that junk. If they had to tighten their belt, they'd HAVE to spend more wisely.
That's right in line with my thoughts on this issue. Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see it, but we'll here about it every four years around election time.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell
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I'm against the nature of tax, it's a vampire on the economy, and it gives money to big govt. which they wil spend it in an incredibly inefficient way, and 99% of it will go for stuff no one wants. (Most of our welfare goes to the rich, even in social security, two thirds of the money goes to the independently wealth. I'm related to three recipients, two are millionaires, and one is poor. the poor one get's 10% and the two millionaires get 90%)
But if there have to be taxes, yes it should be simple. I would first off say income tax must be abolished. It is the main cause of outsourcing. We ask our employers to pay X amount more so that the workers can pay 1/3 to 1/2 in tax, thus making american labor too expensive. (productivity per dollar of american labor is fine without govt. regulation)
I favor a 'fat tax' as I call it. Money which isn't doing anything, it just sits there. Large amounts of cash are sitting in someone's bank account somewhere, earning interest, but not creating any business. If money isn't active in the economy, it's not doing anyone any good. We don't want a lot of sleeping money in this country, it's a waste. So, to discourage what we don't want (miserly hoarding) and get those folks to invest that money in new business opportunities, we could tax it. Maybe 1% would do it. If you're money didn't get actively used, you pay 1% at the end of the year. If you bought stocks, you probably made a lot more, because you're very rich, and hired the best money managers. If you bought bonds, you already made more than that. There's some 20 trillion or so just sitting there doing nothing, so my tax generates $200B which is more than enough to run the limited govt. I want. If the govt. needs more than that, it can provide goods and services to the people.
Oh, and it should tax anyone who is devaluing america by taking something out, like oil companies, mines, foresters, etc.
I used to think sales tax was good, but it interferes in commerce, discourages trade. We want to discourage laziness, so let's tax that lazy money. If you want, we can tax lazy people too. TV tax, they have it in britain. food tax, you have to pay if you weight too much. get people to lose weight. I can probably come up with a hundred things that would push people in a more productive direction.
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Signym,
I see you got all the conservatives on this one. And I'm not rich enough to pay tax, but I see how it's destroying the economy and feeding the war machine.
Misbehaven,
I think we will see it, but it will take a trick or two.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Signym,
I see you got all the conservatives on this one. And I'm not rich enough to pay tax, but I see how it's destroying the economy and feeding the war machine.
Not to mention paving the roads, supporting the elderly, and keeping me (a lowly govt lawyer) employed by forcing me to prosecute al you criminal types.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
We want to discourage laziness, so let's tax that lazy money. If you want, we can tax lazy people too. TV tax, they have it in britain. food tax, you have to pay if you weight too much. get people to lose weight. I can probably come up with a hundred things that would push people in a more productive direction.
Damn Brother, that's a whole lotta' social engineering for a conservative.
I thought (and could very well be wrong) that there is no way to switch to a Flat Tax or Sales Tax (total) and have it be revenue neutral. There would have to be significant cuts in Government spending to do this.
So, I would think the question we would have to ask ourselves is what programs we would cut. Or what programs could we build a consensus on cutting. Probably very few.
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Just wipe the slate.
A state wants a road, let the state pay for it.
Federal Taxes are a moronic idea, always were and technically illegal besides.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Not to mention paving the roads, supporting the elderly, and keeping me (a lowly govt lawyer) employed by forcing me to prosecute al you criminal types.
No, it doesn't. Municipalities pave the roads, and probably hire you, which is probably a waste of cash, no offense, since we don't need to prosecute traffic violators, we just need a better license screening so drunks don't get licenses.
That's what I'd do, If I ran the zoo.
Fellow Traveler,
Not really, I don't think. Social engineering of the socialist kind is, THIS IS THE WAY WE DO IT NOW, JIMMY, GET IN LINE. Sorry about the CAPS.
But this is a guiding hand thing, just like TR and Taft and Coolige. I'm not a Hoover, I'm an anti-Hoover. Which doesn't mean I blow. Maybe I'll just have to let that one lie.
Anyway, small nudge tactics are the way the capitalist system was built. Now there's a toxic tax, and it's killing everything. Small fat tax of 1%, not a problem. It says get off your lazy ass and use that money, or at least hire someone to do it, it's not doing society any good in a cookie jar. And if you like your cookie jar, and it's paying off, then great, you won't mind the 1%. Lots and lots of people pay 1% or ,5% to manage their investments in a mutual fund, sometimes more if they pay commissions. It's simple, it's lucrative.
If you call anything that pushes society in a direction "social engineering" then there's a ton of it everywhere, all of conservative america becomes social engineering.
This proposal is not full of "you can't do that" or "everyone will now do it my way" in fact, it opens up new freedoms.
Take this: What caused the '29 Market crash?
Taxes. Hoover hiked taxes to pay for social programs. Payroll tax comes from payroll which comes from the company budget, ie,. profits. If you didn't have a a pre-tax profit margin of >20%, you folded. And never came back. Industries don't exist in America now because they are not economically feasible, ie, they cannot generate >20% of pre-tax profit, and payroll tax is a tax on the number of workers, whether there's a profit or not. 100s of businesses would open up if we killed the stupid income tax.
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