Anti Intellectualism is Killing America

My god, THUGR, you sure get all hot under the collar if anyone even sounds a little doubtful about your POV!


You think because you print a list of things maybe are being done in scattershot fashion in various places across the N American continent [AND BTW, YOUR LINK DOESN'T WORK] that you've presented a case for a "winning strategy"? Those programs that you listed: Did they ...

Reduce crime?
Improve housing?
Raise the level of health?
Increase income?
Improve emergency response?

... anywhere?

If you want to demonstrate that volunteer community programs are a "winning strategy", you have to first of all define your goal(s), and then demonstrate that your approach is meeting those goal(s). If you REALLY want to hit the trifecta, you have to show that your "strategy" is getting to those goals faster, more thoroughly, or with less input than other strategies.

Feel free to make your case!

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So, thinking of community volunteerism being a "winning strategy"...

Jews in concentration camps - they really could have made their little community less hellish if they had only volunteered to help each other out. Correct? If not, what were the constraints that would have made that approach unrealistic and ineffective?

N Koreans can really address their starvation problem by community volunteer programs, right?

Haitians can lift themselves up by their bootstraps. Correct?

And Cubans ....?

I think whether or not a group is able to measurably improve its existence depends on the situation that its in, which is on a spectrum of possibilities. At one end of the spectrum, it can absolutely be done, and on another end of a spectrum it can't. So, in what cases can/does community volunteerism make a difference, and in what cases is it ineffective, and why?

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I want to reiterate my point - one that you sort of slipped past- and that's that I'm all for community volunteer programs and cooperatives. I am. Not because I think they'll make a measurable difference in most communities* (however defined) but simply because they foster a sense of belonging and caring about each other.

*But in order to make a measurable difference, community programs must be fairly wrap-around. Yanno, complete. A volunteer community trash pickup will help pick up trash, but as long as predatory lending, lack of ownership, and low incomes exist, it will not improve property values or housing stock. But if programs are to succeed they need, like I said, to be complete, like the Amish, where one can actually make a living in the community and most aspects of life are defined by the community.

The response of blacks to their continued domination/exploitation by the majority population has swung from demanding integration and equal rights to bootstrapping. The last major bootstrap program WAS black pride, whether you choose to recognize it or not. It failed for a variety of reasons, one of which being its leaders were mostly killed by the police. Nothing has changed. Blacks are STILL getting killed by the police. I also look at the media as being a major problem, because while black pride sought to establish different goals and empower blacks to do for themselves, the white corporate media continued to blast out its message of consumerism, individualism, and helplessness ... all of which are toxic to a community approach.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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G, RALPH-

All I have to do is point to the unending "RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE" thread, in which G obsesses ENDLESSLY about a phantom invasion and national boundaries, but can barely be bothered to mention that Kiev killed thousands of people by shelling civilian centers (Oh, and BTW, that's apparently Russia's fault for "hiding among" the civilian population.)

Yanno, frankly, I don't care whether Russia invades Ukraine or whether Ukraine invades Russia.

What I DO look at is who violating people's rights more, starting with that most primary right, which is the right to life. Killing is killing, whether it is starving, bombing, or neglecting people to death.

So start counting the bodies and THEN figure out which side you're on (if any). And stop putting other things ahead of that priority.




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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
....the majority of people who now post here fit this category as described "motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions.

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It's a lack uv stratejy that keeps the science/skeptic/athiest 'movement' from moving. All they really want to do iz skoff at relijun and woo.

Getting to kidz befor the idea that tradition and authority are more important than lojik formz the foundation uv their thot prosess iz essentail.

The way our early education system works now iz the exact oppozit and viola!, the so called 'civilization' we hav bilt iz chock full uv all sorts uv wakt out nonsens.

If you want to complain about anti-intellectualizm, MD, look at how youv responded to my effort to do sumthing about it. Look how all the suppozed thinkerz here and elswer online hav responded.


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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Quote:

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The way our early education system works now iz the exact oppozit and viola!, the so called 'civilization' we hav bilt iz chock full uv all sorts uv wakt out nonsens.

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Exactly.

I know this is going to start a little far afield but ... I saw a really interesting program that explored the difference between people and {other} animals, and they went through all of the supposed human abilities - language, tool use, culture, self-knowledge (ie when you recognize "self" in a mirror), knowledge of the mind of the other (ie when you have an idea of what the other should know), sense of fairness, grief at death of a loved one, teaching and learning ... and one by one destroyed the notion that humans are qualitatively different from {other} animals.

However, there was ONE measure where humans displayed a vastly different behavior, and that was our youngs' ability to accept a teaching that didn't correspond to reality. In other words, when what was taught (how to open a box with a treat inside) differed from observable reality (stripping away the extra useless steps that the teacher had embedded in the lesson) the children deferred to what they were TAUGHT, not what they OBSERVED. Gorillas and chimps immediately dispensed with the pointless steps.

This is both a "bug" and a "feature" in human mentation. On the one hand, we can teach useful - but complex abstract/not directly observable- concepts like "electrons" and "quarks" and have the next generation build on those concepts.

On the other hand, it also allows the transmission of completely baseless information, like "god" and "purple dragons", which the next generation will continue to operate with.

Its impossible to eliminate that dysfunctional aspect of human thought.


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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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G, I'm sure you think you're a caring person, and where it doesn't interfere with your ideologies you probably are. But you seem to care more about which "side" someone is on, not how many people they're killing, and you spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over it. Some "facts" and "details" and "truth" get magnified (in your mind) until they loom larger than events which are, in reality, of greater concern. (at least, if you're really concerned about human rights.)

So, why don't you decide WHICH ethics are important to you, and be consistent about them, instead of switching from one set to another? If you're going to be pro-American, be pro-American. If you're going to be against violence, be against violence. If you want to seek reality, seek reality. Don't try to make them all mesh together, because they won't.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

My god, THUGR, you sure get all hot under the collar if anyone even sounds a little doubtful about your POV!

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My harshness towards you is not baseed on a post. It comes from a history of posting with you which is why I stopped. You're a moron and my time with you in this thread is over.

Sig

Quote:

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G, I'm sure you think you're a caring person, and where it doesn't interfere with your ideologies you probably are.

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Now let me make clear I have watched G show you to be a fool with every engagement he has had with you but I have to address this because it goes to my point. I started a thread about Putin's screw-ups to see how you and kiki would respond. I posted many different stories to see if you would latch onto one.

Nope Sig not a one. I offer it as proof that you are the one who runs off ideologies, certainly not G.

What pathetic losers you and kiki are. And by the way, there are a couple of us in this thread that are waiting for you to back up you statements about G with facts. Not more of your bullshit and lies.

Here's the thread to my Putin thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=59702

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Quote:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

My god, THUGR, you sure get all hot under the collar if anyone even sounds a little doubtful about your POV!

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My harshness towards you is not base on a post. It comes from a history of posting with you which is why I stopped. You're a moron and my time with you in this thread is over.

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HAHAHAHAHA!

Well, since you're clearly NOT responding to my posts IN THIS THREAD, maybe you shouldn't be posting here at all?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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