Ironic Deaths for Firefly Crew

POSTED BY: zoid
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 22:28
VIEWED: 13607
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FIREFLEW

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:22 PM

The two stock examples of irony include a lifeguard drowning or a cardiovascular surgeon dying of heart disease.

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

FIREFLEW

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:23 PM

The two stock examples of irony include a lifeguard drowning or a cardiovascular surgeon dying of heart disease.

___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

ZOID

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:54 PM

Heellloo, Irony fans!

And what a great day for a game of Irony it is, too!

I, for one, am a proponent for a broader definition of irony, rather than a narrower one. My reasoning: Words have no intrinsic meaning, only the meaning we -- the users of such language -- assign to them. At their fundamental level, words are merely a sequence of arbitrary sounds or written symbols, which we agree convey a (more or less) specific meaning.

For example, for the longest time dictionaries omitted entries for the colloquial word 'ain't', because as everybody knows, 'ain't' ain't a word. Eventually, however, dictionaries did include such words, because their use became so common as to make them 'correct', irregardless of the complaints of linguistic purists. (NB: Did you see what I did there? Until very recently, 'irregardless' was an incorrect usage of the word 'regardless', constituting a double negative within the same word; its usage is still a pet peeve of mine. Now, you'll find 'irregardless' in many dictionaries, without even a notation that it's a bastardization (also a 'good word', and precise for my intent in this context) ).

My favorite free online dictionary, Merriam-Webster, gives the following definition for 'irregardless', which not only underscores that the word is 'nonstandard', but also underscores that it must be considered an acceptable word because it is regularly used and conveys meaning between its users:

One entry found for irregardless.
Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less
Pronunciation: "ir-i-'gärd-l&s
Function: adverb
Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless
nonstandard : REGARDLESS
usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

Here is Merriam-Webster's definition of 'irony', which I agree conveys the meaning I intend, when I use the sounds and symbols that constitute the word:

Main Entry: iro·ny
Pronunciation: 'I-r&-nE also 'I(-&)r-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nies
Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirOnia, from eirOn dissembler
1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning -- called also Socratic irony (NB: AB uses this technique to great effect in his political posts over on the OB, to the great consternation of his opposing 'master debaters')
2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance
3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play -- called also dramatic irony, tragic irony
synonym see WIT

How much of that definition is a bastardization of the original meaning of the term 'irony', I cannot say. Perhaps at some point, 'sardonic' and 'ironic' and any number of other concepts like 'incongruous' got clumped together within common usage. Regardless, I feel that the current broader definition of 'irony' is correct, simply because we may commonly agree on its meaning...

Definitively,

zoid

P.S.
You can use Merriam-Webster's free online dictionary and thesaurus at: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=
_________________________________________________

ZOID

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:50 PM

SoupCatcher wrote:

Quote:
...So if Wash died while Zoe was giving birth (best guess, she strangled him), would that be ironic?

Perhaps, but, only to posters on this particular thread, I think. I originally suggested that -- to me -- Zoe dying in childbirth would be ironic, since she so desperately wants a child, wants "to meet that child" as she told Wash in HoG. If she dies in childbirth, she would never get that 'heart's desire' to behold and nurture their child, while in the very act of fulfilling that stated goal. It would be doubly ironic (tragic irony) because Wash doesn't want a child, only for Zoe and him to be together, alone (he states this on a number of occasions throughout the series). Under the circumstance, he would gain the unwanted child and lose his heart's desire, Zoe, in one fell swoop. By contrast, if Wash were the one desperate to have a child and Zoe died giving him one, that would not be ironic, only tragic.

Since that post, we have been debating the ironic quality of such deaths, and exploring the definition of irony itself. As such, if JW were to kill off Wash by the means you suggested, it would be high irony indeed, but probably lost on everyone except the 10 or so persons who have posted on this thread.

But you are correct -- IMO -- that it would be ironic to us.

Respectfully,

zoid

DELIA

Thursday, October 28, 2004 3:26 AM

Zoid,

It ain't books, honey, it's baseball. I'm a Sox fan, and I'm behind in almost everything schoolwise now, 'cause I'm spending my evenings watching games (sometimes, I'm spending my class time watching games go by on espn.com, because the game starts before the class ends). When it's over, I'll probably be about more. (Of course, right now I'm multitasking, because if I try to just watch the game (it's the bottom of the 8th in game 4) I get tied in knots.

I miss the old days, too. Seems odd to be nolstalgic for, well, April.

Delia

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

ZOID

Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:58 AM

Delia:

I presume this message finds you on the morning after the Red Sox historic World Series sweep, properly hung over. Congratulations to all the long-suffering baseball fans of the Sox, and to Bostonians in particular. In a season that saw many scribes and historians of the sport acclaim Barry Bonds the greatest player the sport has ever seen, the Boston franchise has likewise finally put paid to the legend of the Bambino.

Have a great day, in a brave new world!

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
No disrespect to the Babe intended. He will always be remembered as the first player to so totally dominate the sport, like a god among mere mortals. And I ain't talkin' strictly home runs either; take a look at the details sometime... In the meantime, enjoy Barry while he's still playing. A player of his or the Babe's caliber only comes along once every 80 years or so.

DELIA

Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:34 PM

Zoid,

Celebrating, yes, hung over, not so much (not drinking inhibits the ability to be hung over). But I am estatically happy, and I can stop staying up till midnight watching baseball and start staying up past midnight studying. Which is actually probably not an improvement.

Ah, well.

Delia

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

BOOKSWORD

Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
Zoid,

Booksword:

That's the spirit! Well-played!

BTW, is that 'Book's word' or 'Book sword'. Just wonderin'...

Its Books Word, I really got to fix that Zoid. By the by loved the joke!!! Laughed so hard considered getting daipers.

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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