Are we living in a modern day facist Nazi Germany
POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Friday, March 11, 2005 19:39
VIEWED: 21383
PAGE 4 of 10
I find it all kinds of ironic that people will justify Bush's war on Iraq with Saddam Hussein's slim chances of maybe one day becoming a threat, but they aren't able to see the potential, the real threat which another four years of Bush poses to America and the rest of the world. We may be less fascistic today than Germany was in the 30's, but we wouldn't have as far to go. Hitler could only dream of the kind of military presence we enjoy today. Maybe absolute power in the hands of Americans won't corrupt us absolutely, but mightn't it corrupt us just a leettle bit? Even us?
The most disturbing thing to me in the comparison with Adolph is actually a contrast not a similarity: Hitler clearly, passionately hated the Jewish people, so he tried to eradicate them. The neo-cons on the other hand will kill tens of thousands of people just so they can make over Iraq as a capitalist utopia. The administration doesn't hate the Iraqis, the Iraqi people are just in the way. There's no hate, just utter dehumanizing greed.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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It seems to me that the US isn't so much like Nazi Germany, but more like the 'Alliance' from that failed sci-fi/western series on fox a years back. Did any of you see that? It was pretty good.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
It seems to me that the US isn't so much like Nazi Germany, but more like the 'Alliance' from that failed sci-fi/western series on fox a years back. Did any of you see that? It was pretty good.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
Hey, SergeantX! Hey, you and I've been here since before that show was even cancelled, but I can't recall ever reading a thread being posted specifically to compare the modern United States with the Alliance of 500 years hence. Do you remember such a thread being posted? Sure, folks have made the comparison but has it been discussed at any length really? I remember maybe a few posts hijacking various other threads but nothing definitive. Am I just suffering a little cyber-amnesia?HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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I'm not sure. I may have started one actually. Or maybe I'm just thinking of threads where it came up. I know I've always been sympathetic to the view that the Alliance would have, if the series had continued, proven to be not the monolithic evil entity that Mal saw, but something more like the U.S.
I even remember an interview with Joss where this was discussed. He talked about how America does a lot of good in the world, but if you happen to be from Vietnam or any of the places where U.S. presence isn't so welcome, you might have a different view. He said Mal fought in Vietnam.
Anyway, yeah, I think it's been discussed, but you ought to go ahead and start a thread, if that's what you're suggesting. I've been coming here so long it sometimes seems like everything's been said, but I'm sure we can squeeze something more out of it.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
But I also wonder how many German's basically thought the same thing
[snip]
so I'll ask the question again..are we living in the beginning stages of Nazi Germany
Yes, in the 30's leading up to the war the "intellectuals" did know what was going on (aside from the Jews thing). They tried to warn people, but they didn't listen until it was too late.
You are living in a country very similar to Germany in the 30's. The rest of the world sees it, and we have no idea why the bulk of you guys don't.
As for the Partiot Act. It has taken away *many* rights and freedoms from you guys. One of them being "fair use" rights. Here's a nice quote:
"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin 1706-1790
If the US had more (a lot more) people like you, this wouldn't be happening. Then again, people who actually ask questions and listen are becoming rarer and rarer with each passing year. So, live long and reproduce.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
It's how others think that matters. The majority of the world said "don't start this war" - but Bush said screw you, we are going to war.
99% of the populations of the middle east HATE the US for that!
A great many of us hate Bush for that. And roughly 50% of us voted against him in the last election, and plan to vote against him in the upcoming. So don't blame us for his bankrupt foreign policy.
To me, it's not so much that what he's doing in the middle east is evil so much as it is STUPID!.
We had the sympathy of much of the world after 9/11, including a great many countries that would normally have been neutral; that sympathy barely waivered when we invaded Afghanistan. Why?
Because that war was logically justifyable; the Taliban had clear connections to Bin Laden & company, and had provided training grounds and logistical support.
Had we chosen to consolidate our position in Afghanistan then, (while keeping a weather eye on Iraq, of course), we could have forged something solid, something to demonstrate true American ideals. Human Rights. Building for the common good. Universal sufferage.
Had Iraq eventually re-developed a credible WMD potential, we might have had support for an invasion then.
Instead, to advance his personal or professional agendas, Bush acted like an overeager teenager, and divided our forces.
It's not some much a question to me of "Did we have a reason to invade Iraq?" as "Did we have a pressing reason to invade Iraq right then?" Had Iraq been a credible short-term danger, the immediacy of the invasion may have been logically (and logistically) justifiable , but it became obvious early on that Bush wanted the second war for some other reason than any immediate threat posed by Iraq. He wanted this war now Now NOW!, like a spoiled brat in the "GI Joe" aisle of K-Bee Toys.
And I'm greatly afraid that if he's elected (notice I didn't say RE-elected), that he'll expand the conflict into further territory, trading America's long-term interests for short-term personal advantage, and justifying it all in the name of love of country.
I'm afraid that if he's elected, he'll find a way to suspend the constitution, run for a third term, or a fourth, changing the rules as he goes, all for our own good of course. Hell, he might even believe it. A fanatic, after all, is someone who doubles his speed as soon as he's lost sight of his goal.
So, to address the subject of this thread at last, not, I don't believe we're living in a modern day fascist Nazi Germany, at least not yet.
But we're close enough to the line to make me wake up in a cold sweat sometimes.
"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein
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Piratejenny:
I personally prefer to have government play as little of a role as possible in my personal affairs. I believe in a hands off government, and I believe in people taking care of their own. Some people disagree and also live very well because of it, more power to them. If I didn't feel my life was of a suitable quality, I'd probably move to Sweden .
But the essence, in my mind anyway, of keeping more of my money is to save some aside for healthcare and education for my family.
As always, this is just one man's uninformed opinion.
~ Lost In The 'Verse
"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"
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From PROJECT CENSORED.org
Law Enforcement Agencies Spy on Innocent Citizens
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/16.html
With virtually no media coverage or public scrutiny, a major reorganization of the US domestic law enforcement intelligence apparatus is well underway and, in fact, is partially completed. The effort to create a new national intelligence collection, analysis, and sharing system has frightening implications for privacy and other civil liberties.
In the aftermath of 9/11, the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) with Department of Justice (DOJ) assistance decided to organize a summit in early 2002; the topic was “Criminal Intelligence Sharing: Overcoming Barriers to Enhance Domestic Security.” At the summit, a select group of 100 “criminal intelligence experts” and VIPs from local, state, and federal agencies—including the military—formulated what came to be known as the “National Criminal Intelligence Sharing Plan” (NCISP).
The IACP summit report calls for the creation of a “Criminal Intelligence Coordinating Council” (CICC). The Global Intelligence Working Group became operational under the umbrella of John Ashcroft’s Department of Justice (DOJ) as the first incarnation of the CICC in the fall of 2002.
Go to the website for the whole article...
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I think that Tash is a little bit Nazi. He won't let me watch the Buffy/Angel dvd's out of order. How controlling is that?
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Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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I haven't read the whole thread but i find the topic very interesting because I've discussed the very same topic a few weeks ago with some friends.
As you maybe know in europe is the attitude for the US is mostly more negative than negative. I always try to be as objective as possible and don't see things in a such radical way as my friends which say bush is a terrorist himself ecetera ecetera...
But as we compared the present US with Germany in the 30's we agreed that one thing is common. The Patriotism. When I see around europe i don't find a country were patriotism is as strong as in America. Not even the UK
I think most people are proud of their country (i am proud of being Swiss) but they are also very critical about it.
I think it's still a trauma of the nazi-time were we had the people blindly following a man. I mean you have to see that Hitler did some very good things (from a german view in that time). He brought the country out of a huge crisis to the strongest force in europe. The people trusted him and followed him to their doom.
And I think we get (here in europe through our media) a similar picture of the US. We see a Britney Spears who sais: "We should trust our president no matter what". We see every house has an american flag in their garden. We don't understand that (I would feel stupid to have a swiss flag on my house). I mean america has its Justification for it, it's the most powerful and influental country on this planet. But we miss the critizism.
I know that there is critizism (towards bush etc.) but it seems that many people don't show it because they are think it would be bad for their country, because its "unpatriotic". (I don't know how you see it but thats my impression).
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Yes there are Fireflyfans all over the world. Even in little switzerland.
btw. sorry for my bad english
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