American Sniper
POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Sunday, June 7, 2015 01:32
VIEWED: 12920
PAGE 3 of 8
Quote:The movie won its only Oscar for Best Sound Editing. Directing 34 films over 44 years, Eastwood has honed his craft to its essentials: make it seem as if the story is telling itself. Skeptical viewers may pick at the particulars of American Sniper, but they’d have to admit that Eastwood, like Chris Kyle, is a superb shooter.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Considering the overwhelming abundance of excellent composers Clint has used and had at his disposal to create mournful sound, I felt the silence was moving.
American Sniper is the #2 R-rated movie of all time, #1 is The Passion of the Chris.
www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic/mpaa.htm?page=R&p=.htm
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Tall Tales
I went back and did a little research (just barely enough to get the gist of the story behind the film, Kyle's whoppers/lies) and I came up with some thoughts. Yes, he told some whoppers (coming from Texas I guess that shouldn't surprise me) and he deserves whatever scorn and ridicule, for advancing his exploits, that he gets. Seems to me "embellishments" are all the rage now (Williams, O'Reilly and McDonald) trying to outdo the next guy's colorful "enhancements."
Upon reading about his "enhancements" I thought "yeah, right!" It's the old fish story. Each time it's told, it gets bigger until it's the size of Moby Dick. My theory is that it's part of his PTSD world. You don't do 4 tours and not be adversely affected, especially not in such a savage and dehumanizing war. Not making excuses for him, just making an observation. I personally know 2 such individuals who came back "changed" from war (Vietnam and Iraq). Killing can screw with your head. Bush, on the other hand, both he and Cheney, lost touch with reality in a much different way, but they have no excuse whatsoever.
Film and Storytelling
As I contemplated my response to your statement, I was reminded of another story on film that captured my imagination and fueled my love for film as a medium, a mode of storytelling. I was a young teen when I first saw Sgt. York (with Gary Cooper) about a hillbilly that became famous back in WWI, when he singlehandedly captured a whole German Battalion with his service rifle. Tall tale indeed. Interesting how Hollywood packaged that movie.
Flash forward to today and we get the New Sgt. York, Chris Kyle, with Hollywood continuing to use their clever packaging tricks. Only thing, those of us with some brains can see through their chicanery. For me, I see LOTR, Sgt. York, The Dirty Dozen and Stalag 17 all over again. A story, a whopper, a fish story.........a flat out lie, maybe. But for approximately 2 hours I suspend my belief system, and allow myself to be transported to a separate reality. The world will be there when I get back.
Political Harshness
November 22, 1963 the day I grew up too fast. JFK was murdered and we lost the father of our country. I knew nothing of his real persona, but I was so young and the country was sold a bill of goods, still though he was "our" president. What did I know about Repubs and Dems? nothing, but my president was a democrat - so I felt that to honor him I was one as well. Bush is so far at the opposite end of who JFK was, that he pales in comparison. Somehow I knew that, once he was in office, we were going to war. We were sold a bill of goods.
Texas, that proud state, had to embellish, it's in their nature to exaggerate. Cheney, of course, had other things in mind. Along comes Chris Kyle, sees the towers go down and there is the "used car salesman" selling us a bill of goods. Many swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Many enlisted and were shipped off to fight and die because of a "used car salesman" and his trusty dog - Cheney. We are still "paying" for that bill of goods.
SGG
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey JSF,
I thought that Eastwood presented the story well, just a few minor tweaks IMHO, that would have given us a well-rounded and complete story. Some more scenes with his father and home life. The relationship with his brother was another aspect that I felt was skimmed over.
Again, it did not diminish from Cooper and Miller's performances, not in the least. The depiction of PTSD was more in Cooper's "far-off" look and general demeanor than anything Eastwood could have shown cinematically (his use of handheld cameras and lighting), he kept his shots simple, a few cutaways, but very little movement and, as you correctly noticed, very little music. As I stated, he used the KISS method. Eastwood relied heavily upon his two lead actors to tell the story.
EC described the supporting actors as being "flat" - Yes, I agree. But I believe this was intentional, with few exceptions. A soldier with PTSD will be there physically, but off kilter just a bit. Two scenes that show this in a very subtle way - 1. When Chris meets his brother in country on the tarmac, and 2. When Chris is home in front of the TV and it's not even on.
That image is burned in my memory........that's where I would assume they got the adage "a picture is worth a thousand words" - so true! What he did was show us, not tell us, what was going on in the lives of these two people.
Eastwood forced us to look at war, warts and all. He held it up to the light, showed us the ugly truth and said "don't turn away dammit. Look!"
No, I don't think he could have depicted the hurt and anguish of PTSD any better than through Bradley Cooper, a brilliant, spare, nuanced performance.
You're right, I was paying attention.
SGG
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:How much commonsense did Chris Kyle have when he gave a loaded gun to a crazy person?
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Upon reading about his "enhancements" I thought "yeah, right!" It's the old fish story. Each time it's told, it gets bigger until it's the size of Moby Dick. My theory is that it's part of his PTSD world. You don't do 4 tours and not be adversely affected, especially not in such a savage and dehumanizing war. Not making excuses for him, just making an observation.
From the yesterday's Christian Science Monitor, where “Routh” killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield.
Quote:www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2015/0225/American-Sniper-trial-Why-US-j
The ensuing excursion was meant to be a day of bonding, but the interplay between the men quickly soured. After declaring Routh “straight up nuts” in a text, Kyle texted Littlefield during the drive to the range to “Watch my 6,” military parlance for covering someone’s back. Later at the range, Routh first shot Littlefield several times in the back, and then aimed a fusillade at Kyle
uries-often-reject-the-insanity-plea-video
Anybody notice where Chris Kyle lost touch with reality? Routh is nuts but Kyle will carry out the mission anyway he can. And where did Kyle get the idea that shooting is good for Routh's P.T.S.D.? Did Kyle imagine gunfire and the smell of gunpowder are a cure? I know the answers because I live in Texas, where Texans aren't careful with facts, the truth or reality. Unrealistic attitudes and lying are advantageous in business, where the worst that can happen is a legal case, but not nearly so advantageous in war, where being unrealistic will drive you crazy, get you maimed & killed, and lose a war. All of which happened in Iraq.
Quote:Clint Eastwood removed the link between losing touch with reality and losing a war. If he kept the linkage, the ugly truth, then the audience might have bad thoughts about Republican politicians. Eastwood's solution was to take the link out of the script and put more R-rated violence in. Eastwood would call it an artistic decision; I call it politics.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Eastwood forced us to look at war, warts and all. He held it up to the light, showed us the ugly truth and said "don't turn away dammit. Look!"
American Sniper turned war into a jumble of bullets and explosions and trips home, where everything is on a tactical level and there are only vague thoughts of a strategy to win a war. Chris Kyle is the super-shooter, a role that Clint Eastwood has played many times. The winning tactic in a typical Eastwood movie is to kill them all, one bullet at a time. With 160 kills, Chris Kyle was killing 'em all. Except killing them all does not win in a real war. But you won't see that in this Eastwood movie. (There are Texans who wanted to nuke all Iraqis, taking kill 'em all to the highest possible level, but that strategy is not as realistic as Texans think.)
To end where I began, was Chris Kyle being realistic when he handed a loaded gun to a person he thought was crazy? That ranks with offhand decisions such as Paul Bremer's Order Number 2, dissolving the entire former Iraqi army and putting 400,000 former Iraqi soldiers out of work, instantly creating a large pool of armed and disgruntled youths for the insurgency. Did Clint Eastwood include that in American Sniper? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer#Disbanding_the_Iraqi_Army
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:The movie won its only Oscar for Best Sound Editing. Directing 34 films over 44 years, Eastwood has honed his craft to its essentials: make it seem as if the story is telling itself. Skeptical viewers may pick at the particulars of American Sniper, but they’d have to admit that Eastwood, like Chris Kyle, is a superb shooter.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Considering the overwhelming abundance of excellent composers Clint has used and had at his disposal to create mournful sound, I felt the silence was moving.
Another excellent post by second.
Quote:
American Sniper is the #2 R-rated movie of all time, #1 is The Passion of the Chris.
www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic/mpaa.htm?page=R&p=.htm
Now chrisisall is going to be jealous. Or the Passion of a different Chris?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Tall Tales
I went back and did a little research (just barely enough to get the gist of the story behind the film, Kyle's whoppers/lies) and I came up with some thoughts. Yes, he told some whoppers (coming from Texas I guess that shouldn't surprise me) and he deserves whatever scorn and ridicule, for advancing his exploits, that he gets. Seems to me "embellishments" are all the rage now (Williams, O'Reilly and McDonald) trying to outdo the next guy's colorful "enhancements."
Upon reading about his "enhancements" I thought "yeah, right!" It's the old fish story. Each time it's told, it gets bigger until it's the size of Moby Dick. My theory is that it's part of his PTSD world. You don't do 4 tours and not be adversely affected, especially not in such a savage and dehumanizing war. Not making excuses for him, just making an observation. I personally know 2 such individuals who came back "changed" from war (Vietnam and Iraq). Killing can screw with your head. Bush, on the other hand, both he and Cheney, lost touch with reality in a much different way, but they have no excuse whatsoever.
Film and Storytelling
As I contemplated my response to your statement, I was reminded of another story on film that captured my imagination and fueled my love for film as a medium, a mode of storytelling. I was a young teen when I first saw Sgt. York (with Gary Cooper) about a hillbilly that became famous back in WWI, when he singlehandedly captured a whole German Battalion with his service rifle. Tall tale indeed. Interesting how Hollywood packaged that movie.
Flash forward to today and we get the New Sgt. York, Chris Kyle, with Hollywood continuing to use their clever packaging tricks. Only thing, those of us with some brains can see through their chicanery. For me, I see LOTR, Sgt. York, The Dirty Dozen and Stalag 17 all over again. A story, a whopper, a fish story.........a flat out lie, maybe. But for approximately 2 hours I suspend my belief system, and allow myself to be transported to a separate reality. The world will be there when I get back.
Political Harshness
November 22, 1963 the day I grew up too fast. JFK was murdered and we lost the father of our country. I knew nothing of his real persona, but I was so young and the country was sold a bill of goods, still though he was "our" president. What did I know about Repubs and Dems? nothing, but my president was a democrat - so I felt that to honor him I was one as well. Bush is so far at the opposite end of who JFK was, that he pales in comparison. Somehow I knew that, once he was in office, we were going to war. We were sold a bill of goods.
Texas, that proud state, had to embellish, it's in their nature to exaggerate. Cheney, of course, had other things in mind. Along comes Chris Kyle, sees the towers go down and there is the "used car salesman" selling us a bill of goods. Many swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Many enlisted and were shipped off to fight and die because of a "used car salesman" and his trusty dog - Cheney. We are still "paying" for that bill of goods.
SGG
You may be satisfied with your assessment. But the combat participants knew about Chris Kyle at the time, while in theater. kyle didn't manufacture that.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF,
I thought that Eastwood presented the story well, just a few minor tweaks IMHO, that would have given us a well-rounded and complete story. Some more scenes with his father and home life. The relationship with his brother was another aspect that I felt was skimmed over.
Again, it did not diminish from Cooper and Miller's performances, not in the least. The depiction of PTSD was more in Cooper's "far-off" look and general demeanor than anything Eastwood could have shown cinematically (his use of handheld cameras and lighting), he kept his shots simple, a few cutaways, but very little movement and, as you correctly noticed, very little music. As I stated, he used the KISS method. Eastwood relied heavily upon his two lead actors to tell the story.
EC described the supporting actors as being "flat" - Yes, I agree. But I believe this was intentional, with few exceptions. A soldier with PTSD will be there physically, but off kilter just a bit. Two scenes that show this in a very subtle way - 1. When Chris meets his brother in country on the tarmac, and 2. When Chris is home in front of the TV and it's not even on.
That image is burned in my memory........that's where I would assume they got the adage "a picture is worth a thousand words" - so true! What he did was show us, not tell us, what was going on in the lives of these two people.
Eastwood forced us to look at war, warts and all. He held it up to the light, showed us the ugly truth and said "don't turn away dammit. Look!"
No, I don't think he could have depicted the hurt and anguish of PTSD any better than through Bradley Cooper, a brilliant, spare, nuanced performance.
You're right, I was paying attention.
SGG
Did you recognize the nursery as another example, Chris' surrealism peeling away in civilian environs? I did like the Auto shop air wrench, which of course sounds like an automatic weapon with compressed air recoil and reload features. There were numerous other more subtle times which I cannot recall in totality.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:“Have you done some things over there you wished you hadn't?” asked the psychologist at two hours into the movie.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I did like the Auto shop air wrench, which of course sounds like an automatic weapon with compressed air recoil and reload features. There were numerous other more subtle times which I cannot recall in totality.
Chris Kyle thoughtfully replied, “I'm willing to meet my Creator and answer for every shot I took.” How arrogant! When I meditate on my kills, I have some doubts. Maybe not every kill was absolutely necessary. Except for this one guy who I think the Buddha would have approved me killing sooner and maybe torturing him a little before he died. That guy was ass.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ok, if I go into a theater knowing I hate a particular director for whatever the reason, then.....................my question is: Why see the movie if you know, going in, that all you will see is a pack of lies?
You bring a very heavy piece of luggage my friend? Do you do this with all the movies you watch?
And, of course, Eastwood is going into it with a particular point of view. If you know this going in, well.....................
I found out about John Wayne's politics a few years back, but yet I still watch his films and enjoy them. Art and politics can be a powerful combination, but they can also drive ya' crazy.
Dr. Strangelove!!!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Yes, JSF, caught that and others throughout............
SGG
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME