I'm beginning to wonder..
POSTED BY: Connorflynn
UPDATED: Monday, October 25, 2004 14:04
VIEWED: 2223
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I was and to a degree am still an advocate for the removal of Saddam Hussein from power. The world is a safer place without him. However as the war progresses the more angry I become. I have a few friends over in Iraq and one that has returned severely injured by a mortar attack. I spend every day surfing the net researching politics and foreign policy.
Yesterday I came to a painful realization about this administration's handling of the war, after speaking with the adoptive father of a young friend (I consider him a nephew)of mine who is currently battling insurgents outside of Fallujah. I used to play D&D with his adoptive father, while this scrawny little kid used to run around the basement (our gaming area) with his He-Man sword and shield , hooting and hollering while we killed orcs hehe. My friend told me Andy is scared shitless, with good reason. What really bothers me out about this, other then the obvious, is that he took the time to make out a will before he left. How many 19 year olds even think about wills, let alone creating one for themselves.
This revelation really made me reflect on what this war means and how it was planned. I'm frustrated with what is becoming an increasing reality, this administration went to war without a complete plan. It was/is understood that we could win a military victory in Iraq or anywhere that we put our mind and hearts, after all America has the greatest trained and technologically advanced military on the planet. Where the flaw lays with Iraq,in my opinion, is the fact that we don't seem to have a plan to win the peace. Andy has said and so have my other friends over there, that the Iraqis truly do appreciate our help, but still don't trust that we will see this thing through. Because of this we haven't seen them take on as much responsibility for the outcome as maybe we would, if things were different.
I guess ultimately my question is, if the Iraqis don't believe we will see this through and we don't have a plan to actually win the peace, how DO we see this through? When can we say, we saw it through to an acceptable conclusion for both Iraqis, Americans and the rest of the world?
I hope that wasn't too inarticulate.
"I actually voted for John Kerry, before I voted against him"
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Very good observations and questions. The only thing you said that I would disagree with is where you said that the world is a safer place without Saddam Hussein. Saddam may have been a terrible despot, but he was not an "Islamic" extremist. In fact, those people (the ones we're now fighting in Iraq) were just as much of a threat to him as they are to us. That's why he held them under his thumb through brute force, torture, and murder. Our taking him out of power just let the proverbial genie out of the bottle. To me, that's one big step backward in the "war on terror".
And don't think I'm saying the above because I'm some Kerry supporter. I already voted for Bush by absentee ballot - obviously not because I think he's doing a good job with the Iraq war, but because I think his other policies are much better for the country. When it comes to Iraq though, big mistake. Big, big mistake.
Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.
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Well. I think the Iraqi people are better off without Saddam, and I think the surrounding countries are better off, making us better off ultimately. The issue with the Islamic extremists in Iraq treads a thinner line. He MAY have kept them under his thumb, though I think he was more of an appeaser and colluded with them, not in the case of 9/11 IMHO.
"I actually voted for John Kerry, before I voted against him"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:
... though I think he was more of an appeaser and colluded with them ...
Just like he did between 1980-1988?
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Quote:
Friday, October 22, 2004 14:27 TIMES READ: 77
I'm beginning to wonder..
CONNORFLYNN
I was and to a degree am still an advocate for the removal of Saddam Hussein from power. The world is a safer place without him
Seems everyone wants to have their cheese omlettes, but don't want to go through the messy process of breaking any eggs. Well, ya can't have both. Sorry.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Well, when I told you over and over that Iraq was a meat grinder for American troops did you think I was kidding? I'm glad you wrote this - maybe the Ghoulman was wrong about you? Oh man... will I have to eat crow here??? 
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Originally posted by Connorflynn:
I was and to a degree am still an advocate for the removal of Saddam Hussein from power.
Well who the frell wasn't? Simply against the WAY the Bush/Cheney white house did it.
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The world is a safer place without him.
That statement has no basis in reality. The world didn't change one bit - the entire 90s went along just fine with Saddam where he was, bottled up in Bagdadh. Of course, everyone from me to the Islamists were for getting rid of Saddam. Everyone!
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However as the war progresses the more angry I become. I have a few friends over in Iraq and one that has returned severely injured by a mortar attack. I spend every day surfing the net researching politics and foreign policy.
There is this documentary by Micheal Moore...
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Yesterday I came to a painful realization about this administration's handling of the war, after speaking with the adoptive father of a young friend (I consider him a nephew)of mine who is currently battling insurgents outside of Fallujah. I used to play D&D with his adoptive father, while this scrawny little kid used to run around the basement (our gaming area) with his He-Man sword and shield , hooting and hollering while we killed orcs hehe.
Orcs *pffft*. Pit Fiends are a mans game.
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My friend told me Andy is scared shitless, with good reason. What really bothers me out about this, other then the obvious, is that he took the time to make out a will before he left. How many 19 year olds even think about wills, let alone creating one for themselves.
I hope Andy is all right. Prayers out.
An old man who was a bomber pilot in WWII once looked right at me saying "there are no athiests in foxholes". I spit right back at him, "that's because foxholes are full of boys crying for thier mothers you old f*ck".
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This revelation really made me reflect on what this war means and how it was planned.
Planned before 9/11. Funny that eh?
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I'm frustrated with what is becoming an increasing reality, this administration went to war without a complete plan.
Consiracy theories aside - seems they believed in the old "domino theory". Bring "democracy" to a nation and the joy will spread to others just as a Police Action in Vietnam years ago ment stopping the spread of communism.
Didn't work then. And now...
Note: Vietnam Vets don't get respect because it wasn't a war - no pention, no medal, etc. The Government still doesn't acknowlege the troops of that era.
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It was/is understood that we could win a military victory in Iraq or anywhere that we put our mind and hearts, after all America has the greatest trained and technologically advanced military on the planet.
Amazing, it's true that Americans believe thier own bullplop. The American Military is NOT the best. It's down the list and consistantly does poorly in competition. Worse, all that technology you brag about doesn't seem to be spilling out to the national guard down in the dust, is it? Ever wonder why? I could go on.
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Where the flaw lays with Iraq,in my opinion,
Blame anyone but America. Listen - YOUR "president" got you into this when the rest of Americas allies and even YOUR OWN MILITARY said it was insane. That Nation got it's food changed to "Freedom Fries" and that General was "retired". Is there a picutre forming for you here? The War in Iraq was run from the White House - not the Military.
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is the fact that we don't seem to have a plan to win the peace.
We? You were at the meetings with Cheney? Seems that Cheney and Bush just didn't care, they live in a fantasy world where everyone loves America and if they don't they are crazy ... or en
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Ghoulman not all Americans are Bush/Chenney freindly. Not all of us are blind to what is going on there are a lot of us that are just to damn lazy to care. We are divided into basic three types 1. Bush. Rich Money is power and they'll use their position to get more.
2. there is a large number of people who have been brought up thinking that they don't have to work for anything they want whats "theirs" without any real effort. People who think of their kids as another check.
3. the rest of us we work hard we know right from wrong we try to leave this world a little better than we found it.
Many of us were against Bush from the beginning.
He was the least qualified for the job.
The U.S's entrance in Iraq was nothing but another move for more money by a bunch of money hungry power mad fools. Who benifitted from this little venture? Bush and his oil addict friends now have access to the worlds largest oil reserve. Lets not forget little ol' VP Chenney. After swearing to stay out of it Haliburton wins billions in contracts to rebuild Iraq.
I didn't get a chance to talk to my grandfather on the subject, but my dad has told me he saw it coming to. There is a revolution coming again to the US. Those of us who do the working / sacrificing for this country are going to get tired of supporting the can't and won'ts. Not all in America follow blindly.
But if you notice a lot of the highest rated TV programs are "reality" shows you'll see there are a lot of stupid people here.
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