OH NO! Kiev plans to jam (nuclear) square pegs into round holes

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, January 12, 2015 17:57
VIEWED: 3738
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SIGNYM

Thursday, January 1, 2015 9:09 PM

Quote:
Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk of Ukraine announced Tuesday that his nation has reached a deal on nuclear fuel deliveries with Westinghouse to reduce dependence on Russian supplies.

Russia's Foreign Ministry deplored the move as a "dangerous experiment that threatens safety and health of the Ukrainian citizens and peoples of Europe." It said nuclear fuel produced by the U.S. company doesn't quite fit Soviet-built nuclear reactors that Ukraine has.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-ukraines-import-us-nuclear-fuel-risky-211
919820--finance.html

The problem is that US nuclear rods are square, but the holes that they fit into are hexagonal. The last time Ukraine tried this, the rods froze in place.

What with (nuclear) Power Block No 6 in Zaporizhzhya being up.... and down... and up... and down (Ukraine's ministry says there is no radiation leak, other sources say there is)
http://enenews.com/accident-one-worlds-largest-nuclear-plants-local-of
ficial-radiation-14-times-higher-acceptable-norm-area-warns-chernobyl-type-disaster-govt-levels-acceptable-limits-incident-investigation

According to Westinghouse

Quote:
In a statement Tuesday, Westinghouse said it "has been working in the Ukrainian market since 2003, and brings diversification of suppliers, global best practices and technology to the Ukraine market. Westinghouse fuel is currently operating safely and efficiently at the South Ukraine Nuclear Power Plant without any defects in performance."

http://nuclear-news.net/category/2-world/europe/ukraine/

So this is nothing new. Westinghouse has already supplied nuclear fuel to Ukraine’s Energoatom nuclear power generator company. In 2005, six experimental Westinghouse fuel assemblies, adopted for use in USSR-developed reactors, were tried at the South Ukraine plant in one reactor together with Russian fuel rods. And when that was tried ...

Quote:
Though nuclear engineers were skeptical of the pilot probe, the government of former president Viktor Yushchenko signed a deal in 2008 with Westinghouse on fuel rod supply, despite the fact that American nuclear fuel is significantly more expensive and technologically different: Russian nuclear fuel rods are hexagonal in section, while Americans produce fuel assemblies of square section.

This time a batch of 42 fuel assemblies was loaded into three reactors at the South Ukraine nuclear power plant for a standard three-year period of commercial operation.

When in 2012 the time came to replace the fuel assemblies, Ukrainian nuclear engineers found that Westinghouse assemblies deformed during exploitation and got stuck in the core.

Energoatom accused Westinghouse of producing poorly engineered assemblies, whereas Westinghouse countered, accusing the Ukrainian engineers of installing the rods badly.

After the incident the use of American nuclear fuel was banned in Ukraine fuel rods were returned to the producer ‘to get fixed’ and Russian experts were summoned to help with the repair of the equipment produced in the USSR. The Energoatom Company lost an estimated $175 million.

Similar problems with Westinghouse fuel assemblies occurred at a number of other USSR-constructed nuclear power plants: NPP Krško in Slovenia, NPP Loviisa in Finland and NPP Temelin in the Czech Republic. All these countries opted to return to time-proved fuel assemblies produced by Russia’s TVEL Company.

Now Ukraine appears to be ready to fall into the same trap twice. The coup-imposed Kiev regime has renewed the 2008 nuclear fuel deal till 2020, to replace 25 percent of the Russian-made fuel rods with an option to “provide more if needed,” reported the Associated Press in April - all this for the sole purpose of ‘diversifying’ supply..."

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/05/full-text-of-appeal-of-comma
nder-of.html

THGRRI

Thursday, January 1, 2015 11:55 PM

For those of you who want the full story and the truth. Seeing what the Russians are doing today is it any wonder the Ukrainians are looking to others in an attempt to move away from their dependence on Russia. Here's another reason.Ukraine's best-known nuclear power plant was Chernobyl (Chornobyl in Ukrainian). This had the only RBMK type reactors in the country. Unit 4 was destroyed in the 1986 accident, unit 2 was shut down after a turbine hall fire in 1991, unit 1 was closed in 1997 and unit 3 closed at the end of 2000 due to international pressure.

Fuel fabrication plant

TVEL and Westinghouse both bid to build a fuel fabrication plant in Ukraine, and in September 2010 the Ministry of Fuels & Energy selected TVEL. The state-owned holding company Nuclear Fuel signed an agreement with TVEL for a 50-50 joint venture to build a plant to manufacture VVER-1000 fuel assemblies. Preparatory work has been undertaken for the US$ 460 million (€255 million) plant is now under construction at Smolino, Kirovograd region, 300 km southeast of Kiev, to produce about 400 fuel assemblies (200 tU) per year, but with eventual capacity of 800 per year.

Earlier fuel cycle initiatives

An attempt was made in the 1990s to set up a complete suite of fuel cycle facilities other than enrichment, but this failed for political and financial reasons. The December 2006 decision to form Ukratomprom revived intentions to build a fuel fabrication plant. Ukraine has been seeking cooperation with other countries which have experience in the nuclear fuel cycle as a part of its effort to increase its supply of low-cost nuclear electricity and to reduce its imports of natural gas and other energy sources from Russia. In December 2005 Ukraine and the EU signed an energy cooperation agreement which links the country more strongly to western Europe in respect to both nuclear energy and electricity supply.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-T-Z/Ukrai
ne/

SIGNYM

Friday, January 2, 2015 6:18 AM

I have no idea what you're trying to say. I understand Kiev's motivation to try to diversify their fuel sources. Logic alone would dictate that you should "second source" critical resources. But the second source must be able to provide technically equal parts. I searched your link for any work that Westinghouse might have done subsequent to the unsuccessful trial of their fuel rods ... fabrication in a compatible shape, or with thicker zircon (less swelling), or with more "accordion" material to accommodate expansion (less expansion across the rod) ... and what I found was this:

Quote:
In order to diversify nuclear fuel supplies, Energoatom started implementation of the Ukraine Nuclear Fuel Qualification Project (UNFQP) for VVER-1000 fuel. The Project assumed the use of US-manufactured fuel in the VVER-1000 following the selection of Westinghouse as a vendor on a tender basis. In 2005, South Ukraine's third unit was the country's first to use the six lead test assemblies supplied by Westinghouse, which were placed into the reactor core together with Russian fuel for a period of pilot operation. A reload batch of 42 fuel assemblies was provided by Westinghouse in mid-2009 for a three-year period of commercial operation at the unit with regular monitoring and reporting. In addition to the initial supply of fuel from Westinghouse, other aims of the project included the transfer of technology for the design of nuclear fuel. Under a 2008 contract, Westinghouse supplied a total of 630 fuel assemblies for South Ukraine 2 & 3 and Zaporozhe 5. However, these trials to 2011 were deemed unsuccessful, with Energoatom claiming that manufacturing defects in the fuel led to a lengthy unscheduled outage at two of the units, while Westinghouse said that errors had been made during fuel loading. In April 2014 Energoatom renewed the Westinghouse fuel contract to 2020. Each reactor has 163 fuel assemblies.

In June 2010, Energoatom signed a long-term fuel supply contract with Russia's TVEL for all 15 reactors. Earlier, Rosatom had offered a substantial discount to Ukraine if it signed up with TVEL for 20 years. In 2010, TVEL sold Ukraine nuclear fuel for $608 million (€449 million). Ukraine is TVEL's biggest foreign client, totaling 55% of its exports. Ukraine continues to depend on TVEL for VVER-440 fuel for Rovno 1&2.

Following the annexation of Crimea by Russia, on 11 April 2014 Ukraine extended its 2008 contract with Westinghouse for fuel supply through to 2020. This fuel will be fabricated at the Westinghouse Electric Sweden AB plant at Vasteras in Sweden. Westinghouse commented that "This new agreement for Westinghouse VVER fuel design testifies to the quality of our fuel design and demonstrates that it has, in fact, operated without issue at the South Ukraine nuclear power plant, as confirmed by extensive and recent joint Energoatom and Westinghouse inspections. This contract extension ...... will allow Energoatom to continue diversification of its fuel supply. We expect that ..... Westinghouse will grow its share of the Ukrainian nuclear fuel market.” Russian sources have since suggested that the Westinghouse VVER fuel is unlicensed and dangerous.

So, somewhere between the time that the trials of the Westinghouse fuel rods were considered "unsuccessful" (up to 2011), with an interim contract with Russia's TVEL from 2010 to 2014 (and no further work by Westinghouse in that period, as far as I can tell), then with the sudden switch of fuel suppliers in 2014, Westinghouse fuel rods were miraculously deemed acceptable???

Yeah, ok. Whatever.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

JONES

Sunday, January 4, 2015 7:29 PM

I've heard Zaporizhzhya already had a few malfunctions and Ukraine's authorities concealing the facts. Obviously Ukraine's nuclear energy is in a very bad condition but using the unsuitable nuclear fuel is something absolutely reckless like putting something square into round holes. That could be a new Chernobyl and people already report about the rise of radiation level there. And here some info that could be useful, https://allegedlyapparent.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/accident-confirmed-
at-ukraines-zaporizhye-nuclear-power-plant-link-to-latvia-radiation-spike-possible/

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, January 4, 2015 7:54 PM

I like Chicken Kiev :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

THGRRI

Sunday, January 4, 2015 8:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JONES:
I've heard Zaporizhzhya already had a few malfunctions and Ukraine's authorities concealing the facts. Obviously Ukraine's nuclear energy is in a very bad condition but using the unsuitable nuclear fuel is something absolutely reckless like putting something square into round holes. That could be a new Chernobyl and people already report about the rise of radiation level there. And here some info that could be useful.

Jones, hearsay is useless and the link you provide is nothing more than a Blog. I researched the author and can find little on him or his blog. I admit I did not look too extensively but I gave it a whirl. Until he gains some status and what he posts is referred to as legit by more notable sources, I think I will avoid taking what he puts together as a package on a particular subject as facts. Bloggers are not accountable to a higher authority or fact checkers before they go to press.

THGRRI

Sunday, January 4, 2015 8:41 PM

SIGNYM, the Ukrainians are trying to update and upgrade their nuclear program. The World Nuclear Association link I provided does say why the Ukrainians are turning towards the West, it does say how they are trying limited Westinghouse rods and it also suggests the problems were due to how the Ukrainians tried to change those fuel rods. I guess you missed that?

What you neglect to point out is that the Russians have held the Ukrainians hostage due to their dependence upon Russia to meet its energy needs. This makes it imperative that they reject Russian fuel rods. I can tell you this. It was Russian fuel rods that were being used in the Ukraine when they suffered a meltdown at Chernobyl.

I entered into the discussion because you did what you always do. Suggest things on behalf of Russia. The title of the thread starts, OH NO! There is also a lot of misinformation weaved throughout what you post that suggests things like the Russians had to be called in to save the day.

You do this all the time. More and more others will start to look for the ways you cut and paste items off the internet and plant your own thoughts throughout what you cut and pasted as though it is a part of the article. Then realizing what you post is nonsense they will avoid wasting their time with it.

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 4, 2015 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
... It was Russian fuel rods that were being used in the Ukraine when they suffered a meltdown at Chernobyl.

I entered into the discussion because you did what you always do. Suggest things on behalf of Russia. The title of the thread starts, OH NO!

I posted OH NO! because the last time the Ukrainians tried this, it ended in utter failure. The rods had to be cut out of the reactor .... no small feat while working in the middle of a reactor core!

And I'm not hearing any plans to avoid the same fate this time.

I understand WHY Kiev wants to second source its material, but unless they can prevail on Westinghouse to fabricate their nuclear fuel into a compatible format, Kiev will wind up with another nuclear mishap. Perhaps they already have. Power Block No 6 does seem to be having an unusual number of problems lately.

AFA the rods in Chernobyl having been produced by Russia ... the rods weren't the source of the problem. Unfortunately, it was entirely caused by human error, when TPTB decided to run a safety check in the wee hours of the AM when the least experienced operators and engineers were on-duty. The test was to take the reactor down to minimal power to see if there was enough "spinning reserve" (dynamo momentum) to keep the cooling pumps powered long enough for a safe shutdown, but the power level ran too low and while the reactor operator was withdrawing the rods to move up on the power curve the boiler operator was reducing the amount of feedwater.

You can get the blow-by-blow here: This is a Nat Geo program called "Seconds From Disaster" which explains in detail what happened, as explained by the survivors. I found this to be the most horrific dissection of a slow-moving disaster that I've ever watched, and I encourage you to watch it for yourself. If it doesn't make your skin crawl, you need a neurological tune-up!

Chernobyl, Fukushima, and Hanford are the main reasons why I'm against nuclear power of any sort, and I'm dismayed that the Russians seem to think that they know how to do nuclear power "safely". Unless there is some tremendous technology waiting in the wings, even if nothing blows up or leaks out, we will still have the problem of spent fuel disposal.

I responded to your post because you do what YOU always do: I posted something based on very specific information which you dismiss simply because you're too invested in your POV to learn otherwise. And unfortunately, Kiev seems to have the same problem of not wanting to hear bad news and not responding to reality. It very much reminds me of the neocons in the Bush administration: We don't need to respond to reality, we'll make it.
And, well yes, they did. Unfortunately, not the reality that they imagined.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

THGRRI

Monday, January 5, 2015 12:18 AM

Quote:
-SIGNYM
I responded to your post because you do what YOU always do: I posted something based on very specific information which you dismiss simply because you're too invested in your POV to learn otherwise.

This is too easy.

What you post on this topic and all others favors Russia and never represents the facts. Your original post, as well as the thread title, implies that not using Russia to supply fuel rods was irrational and wrong. Then the information you post to make your case is a mismatch of truths, omissions and falsehoods. This is how you supersede facts to distort the truth.

Westinghouse suggested its fuel rods were removed incorrectly and this falls right in line with what was discovered at Chernobyl. That there was “systematic poor management” behind what happened within the Russian and Ukrainian nuclear program that caused that accident. Of course you posted that is was the fault of some inexperienced workers and not what the final determination was. It states in the video 43 minutes in that it was “systematic and poor management” that caused the problems at Chernobyl. As it turns out from watching the video you provided there is also a flaw in this type of reactors floors.

The nuclear program throughout the Ukraine is in disarray and poor shape. This is a result of Russian tutelage yet you refer to them as the experts called in to help the Ukraine.

I am not even going to get into how the Russian government handled all this. I will say it was done in a way we in the west have come to expect from this communist government.

Time for a change and that is what the west is helping to do. Reread the link I posted, it is all there.

SIGNYM

Monday, January 5, 2015 12:26 AM

Quote:
Westinghouse suggested its fuel rods were removed incorrectly and this falls right in line with what was discovered at Chernobyl.

That the fuel rods in Chernobyl were inserted improperly?

Quote:
That there was “systematic poor management” behind what happened within the Russian and Ukrainian nuclear program that caused that accident. Of course you posted that is was the fault of some inexperienced workers and not what the final determination was. It states in the video 43 minutes in that it was “systematic and poor management” that caused the problems at Chernobyl. As it turns out from watching the video you provided there is also a flaw in this type of reactors floors.

The "poor management" came about from a commitment to go ahead with the safety test even though it had been delayed past the more-experience shift, and the lack of an experienced nuclear engineer who could have immediately told the operators that they were separately and individually walking the plant into a region of instability. OR perhaps the overall lack of indicators, in which the boiler operator could see what the core was doing, and the core operator could see what the boiler operator was doing.

Quote:
The nuclear program throughout the Ukraine is in disarray and poor shape. This is a result of Russian tutelage yet you refer to them as the experts called in to help the Ukraine.

The Ukraine program is in poor shape because the Ukrainians have not maintained it. It's been more than 20 years since the fall of the Soviet Union - more than enough time for Kiev to get it right.

AFA Russia having to "save the day" ... all Kiev needed was for Russia to supply the standard fuel rods of standard shape and performance characteristics. I think you're over-intepreting this.

I'm not favoring Russia. Didn't I just link to a detailed explanation of the clusterfuck that was Chernobyl? Didn't I just write that I'm dismayed by Russia's apparent commitment to nuclear power, which they are extending all over the world? (India, Iran, Argentina)

You mistake my worry about Kiev as support of Russia. I'm concerned that Kiev has made a politically-expedient decision to jam fuel rods into their reactors which are NOT demonstrably compatible, and have NOT taken the necessary troubleshooting steps to figure out where the problem is and how to solve it. At least, no activity of that sort appears in the news.

It's possible to point out the follies of one side without being "for" the other side. Or at least, it should be, but apparently it's not possible with you, because you're always "assuming" that I'm Russian. And from that completely erroneous assumption, you're jumping to all kinds of interpretations.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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