What New Zealand Could Teach US About Indigenous Culture

POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Monday, July 24, 2023 19:59
VIEWED: 8163
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AURAPTOR

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 7:29 PM

G - that makes no sense, what so ever.

TRIXY

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh, you started off almost intelligently and then the Rightwingnut chip kicked in.

Perhaps if you read the article, you might have seen an example of how things might be different had different decisions been made in history and we could have had a conversation about that.

There was no 'rightwingnut ' chip which kicked in. I was referencing the lunacy of what's going on here in the states, the all out media shaming of some sports teams for their use of anything remotely having to do w/ native Americans as a mascot.

There are no completely right or wrong positions here.

Yeah, it would be nice if things had gone differently. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pict
ures/2014/9/25/1411614681191/04b03176-5c00-4aa6-99fb-acdef57d42ac-620x395.jpeg

Are you refering to the Redskins? Because that controversy has nothing to do with a mascot and everything to do with the use of a racial slur as a team name.

If not than I dont really have an issue with your statement.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:04 PM

It's not a racial slur. It wasn't intended to be when the Redskins first entered the league in 1932, and it's not today.

This is all just a bunch of P.C. thuggery. And nothing more.

Just so we're clear, is use of ANY form of Indian / Native depiction now designated as " racist " ?

Braves ?

Seminoles ?

Chiefs ?

Should we just erase ALL images and references to pre European people who lived in the land commonly referred to today as 'The Americas ' ?

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, October 29, 2014 1:12 AM

I believe you ask the people who get called/have called those names and then see how they feel about them being in common use. If they see them as racist, then you stop using them.

The word 'nigger' wasn't intended originally as a racial or derogative slur. It derives from the the latin word for black. But only a fool would argue that it's original more benign usage would justify it's use in the present day.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:21 AM

Don't recall the' N ' word ever being used as a compliment, or in a positive light.

However casually it may have been tossed around, it was used in a derogatory and demeaning manner.

And no TEAM I ever heard of proudly took on the banner of a name which was intentionally was derogatory to a group of people.

I doubt ' Go Gooks ! ' , or ' Whollup 'em Wops ! ' would make for endearing cheers.

TRIXY

Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Don't recall the' N ' word ever being used as a compliment, or in a positive light.

However casually it may have been tossed around, it was used in a derogatory and demeaning manner.

And no TEAM I ever heard of proudly took on the banner of a name which was intentionally was derogatory to a group of people.

I doubt ' Go Gooks ! ' , or ' Whollup 'em Wops ! ' would make for endearing cheers.

Please god show me an example where the term Redskin was used in a complementary matter without undermining the culture and beliefs of the people it was describing.....

The Washington Redskins name is the equivalent of there being a Carolina Negro's (not quite Niggers- but this should fit the bill) or a Kansas Crackers....

I don't want to get into the history of the team name. As the team was named what it is to avoid a name conflict with the Braves at the time. However, in valuing the history of the club over the history of the 24 tribes that have advocated for it's change we are basically spitting in the face of a people that long predate the Redskins franchise.

Moreover, I can't seem to figure out why the hell it is such a big deal to change the name. I understand that merchandising is affected from a business perspective, however what is lost can easily be made up. NFL franchises are among the wealthiest sports franchises in the World....

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, October 29, 2014 3:18 AM

There actually WAS a team called the Crackers, here in Atlanta. A minor league professional baseball team.

No one whined about the name then.

From Wiki -

According to Tim Darnell, who wrote The Crackers: Early Days of Atlanta Baseball, the origins of the team name is unknown.[5]

Darnell cites several possibilities as to why this name was chosen:

A term that means a poor, white southerner.
Someone who is quick and efficient at a task.
In reference to plowboys who cracked the whip over animals.
A shortened version of "Atlanta Firecrackers", the earlier 1892 minor league team.

However, this list does not represent the most likely origins of the name. The term "cracker" is derived from the Gaelic "craic", meaning entertaining conversation or boasting.[6] It was used in the 18th century to denote Irish and Scottish colonists of the Deep South backcountry. The Earl of Dartmouth had this to say in a 1766 correspondence: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."[6]

During the period of Reconstruction following the American Civil War, there was also a political party of the same name. Organized in Augusta, Georgia, this party's platform was one of "opposition to Catholics and segregation of blacks."[7]

While now sometimes used as a derogatory term for a white southerner that promotes racism, it is also used as a term of pride by white southerners to indicate one that is descended from those original settlers of the area.[6] It is much more likely that the Atlanta Crackers derived their name from the more positive usage, indicating they were proud to be Georgians.

TRIXY

Wednesday, October 29, 2014 9:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

There actually WAS a team called the Crackers, here in Atlanta. A minor league professional baseball team.

No one whined about the name then.

From Wiki -

According to Tim Darnell, who wrote The Crackers: Early Days of Atlanta Baseball, the origins of the team name is unknown.[5]

Darnell cites several possibilities as to why this name was chosen:

A term that means a poor, white southerner.
Someone who is quick and efficient at a task.
In reference to plowboys who cracked the whip over animals.
A shortened version of "Atlanta Firecrackers", the earlier 1892 minor league team.

However, this list does not represent the most likely origins of the name. The term "cracker" is derived from the Gaelic "craic", meaning entertaining conversation or boasting.[6] It was used in the 18th century to denote Irish and Scottish colonists of the Deep South backcountry. The Earl of Dartmouth had this to say in a 1766 correspondence: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."[6]

During the period of Reconstruction following the American Civil War, there was also a political party of the same name. Organized in Augusta, Georgia, this party's platform was one of "opposition to Catholics and segregation of blacks."[7]

While now sometimes used as a derogatory term for a white southerner that promotes racism, it is also used as a term of pride by white southerners to indicate one that is descended from those original settlers of the area.[6] It is much more likely that the Atlanta Crackers derived their name from the more positive usage, indicating they were proud to be Georgians.

That's frigen hilarious

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:

I haven't seen the "Black Robe" but read the description on it and maybe it is something that I should check out as it seems to be a fairly accurate portrait of life in the east. The Iroquois were a violent people, the game of lacrosse that they invented was a blood sport to them. And it's true they had enemies amongst the other eastern tribes.

From memory they were depicted as very violent. There is a few scenes in that film that stand out for their cruelty. I do believe the film makers distinguised between tribes and aggression. A number of Indigenous languages were used in this film but I think some First Nation people were offended. I would be interested to hear your response if you ever get around to watching it.

Quote:

A later film talked about the residentail schools and the effect it had on the children who were taken away from their families and peoples. One of the first scenes in that film showed the teachers waiting at the front door for the children. Both boys and girls had their hair in two braids, as they entered the school the braids were cut off.
That scene about made me sick.

Sadly, this was similar to what happened to many Aboriginal people, where children were forceable removed and either adopted - if could pass as white - or taken away to missions or trained as servant.

Rabbit Proof Fence http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/ is a film which deals with this topic, based on a true story.

Thanks for all the over recommends, I will check out the Jimmy Stewart film. I loved Dances With Wolves, it was the first film I saw that really explored Native American culture in a such a sympathetic way.

What about Jeremiah Johnson? Still a white man's view, but more complex.

OONJERAH

Thursday, October 30, 2014 10:59 AM

The OP, the article linked tells us what worked for the Maori as well as
NZ's English-speaking citizens.

I never heard of anything like this, just basically accepting & respecting
a native people instead of conquering!! I am amazed! I will share this.

I wonder if it's too late for the rest of us to learn it?

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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