What New Zealand Could Teach US About Indigenous Culture

POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Monday, July 24, 2023 19:59
VIEWED: 8163
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MAGONSDAUGHTER

Tuesday, October 14, 2014 2:22 AM

An interesting article.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/13/-sp-new-zealand-teach-us-
race-sport-ceremonies-legal-treaties

Brenda, I don't know what you feel about where Canada sits on these issues. Australia has a terrible record, just shameful.

Also, got to love the Haka.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, October 14, 2014 5:29 AM

Mistakes were made long before there even WAS a United States of America. And of course, more were made after.

Not all situations are the same.

Hell, thanks to the PC Nazis, even where folks DO try to honor the indigenous people, some lone idiot is " offended " and everything gets tossed in the garbage.

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Mistakes were made long before there even WAS a United States of America. And of course, more were made after.

Who says? Imposing 21st century ethics and morality on events from the past is like trying to put the egg back into the chicken.... you might be able to force the issue, but the chicken ain't gonna be doing a happy dance any time soon.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Mistakes were made long before there even WAS a United States of America. And of course, more were made after.

Not all situations are the same.

Hell, thanks to the PC Nazis, even where folks DO try to honor the indigenous people, some lone idiot is " offended " and everything gets tossed in the garbage.

Oh, you started off almost intelligently and then the Rightwingnut chip kicked in.

Perhaps if you read the article, you might have seen an example of how things might be different had different decisions been made in history and we could have had a conversation about that.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Who says? Imposing 21st century ethics and morality on events from the past is like trying to put the egg back into the chicken.... you might be able to force the issue, but the chicken ain't gonna be doing a happy dance any time soon.

Isn't that what Hitler said?

LOL<

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh, you started off almost intelligently and then the Rightwingnut chip kicked in.

Perhaps if you read the article, you might have seen an example of how things might be different had different decisions been made in history and we could have had a conversation about that.

There was no 'rightwingnut ' chip which kicked in. I was referencing the lunacy of what's going on here in the states, the all out media shaming of some sports teams for their use of anything remotely having to do w/ native Americans as a mascot.

There are no completely right or wrong positions here.

Yeah, it would be nice if things had gone differently. I don't think anyone disagrees on that point.

http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pict
ures/2014/9/25/1411614681191/04b03176-5c00-4aa6-99fb-acdef57d42ac-620x395.jpeg

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, October 26, 2014 12:26 PM

Oh no, I thank you for your perspective from Canada, which I always understood to be a little more progressive in that area.

Even though NZ is so close, I know too little about Maori culture and history, but I understand that as Polynesians they were farmers and warriors, so they stood more of a chance than Australian Aboriginals who were largely hunter/gatherer cultures, with multiple language groups, who did not have the history of warfare that the Maoris did. The technological gap was just too large, they were regarded, and treated as little more than animals, and their efforts to fight back rarely succeeded.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, October 26, 2014 1:44 PM

Oh yes, an astonishing number of languages and language roots in fact. Testimount to the enormous amount of history with which they have occupied this land. Probably at least 60,000 years.

Awhile ago, I read many People series books Kahttp:// www.gear-gear.com/index.php/the-books/people-books. I learnt a great deal about the people who lived on the Americas before white settlement, and I was surpised by the diversity of societies that existed regionally and historically. I'm interested in whether you have read, or heard of this series and what your thoughts are on it's accuracy.

AURAPTOR

Monday, October 27, 2014 4:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:

It's not just about sports in my mind. Cars, clothes too feature what I consider inapporpriate titles. What if someone were to name a car "Irish", I am sure there would be someone up in arms about it.

Sports things like "redskin" are wrong because it takes away from the historic context of it. Bounties were paid on Indian heads that were scalped. The head was brought in without the body.

I'm missing your point about naming a car 'Irish'. The Notre Dame 'Fighting Irish' is seen as a prestigious brand by most.

As for 'Redskins', the actual historic context is that the owner was attempting to honor man who would be the first coach and his heritage. No owner would start a franchise w/ the intent of mocking a group of people and make HIS team a negative brand name. it's the LAST thing he or any owner would want to do.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 4:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh yes, an astonishing number of languages and language roots in fact. Testimount to the enormous amount of history with which they have occupied this land. Probably at least 60,000 years.

Awhile ago, I read many People series books Kahttp:// www.gear-gear.com/index.php/the-books/people-books. I learnt a great deal about the people who lived on the Americas before white settlement, and I was surpised by the diversity of societies that existed regionally and historically. I'm interested in whether you have read, or heard of this series and what your thoughts are on it's accuracy.

That is a fascinating map you posted Magon. I stepped out to take a closer look at it. An incredible array of languages spoken.

I've not heard of these books, so I had a look at your link and though the writers are scientists you have to keep in mind that they are writing for the general public. Which is why and also the first book came out in 1990, they are still referencing the land bridge.
It's known now that the interior of the American continent was still covered in ice. And new archaeological evidence has shown that the first Americans walked down the west coast of Canada and some of the US to get onto the continent. The ice free corridor wasn't ice free at 10,000years.

The earliest settlement that I know of is 30,000years and that is South America. Most tribes I would say have been here 25,000years.

The last to come over before the bridge melted were the Inuit, the people who live in the arctic regions of Canada and Alaska.

Fascinating Brenda.

I enjoyed aspects of those books, but recognise they are fantasy. They still opened my eyes to the diversity of cultures, even if they are kind of filling in some of the gaps.

So what about films that depict First Nation people? Have you seen Black Robe? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101465/ If so, what are your thoughts about the depiction of the various tribes depicted. The film tends to make the distinction in cultures, but it's pretty harsh.

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