Serenity: Leaves on the Wind #6 **(SPOILERS!)**

POSTED BY: MUTT999
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 01:19
VIEWED: 12737
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Originally posted by GWEK:
The series takes place -- what, over the span of a few weeks? Maybe less? A one-month-old IS more of a prop than a character! If anything, we should have seen how tired and irritable she was making the crew: given everything she's been through and how much tension there is around her, there's no way that kid is on a regular sleep schedule!

On the other hand, I guess the crew have been saving up for nine months during their exciting mission of nothing-but-naps-and-intercourse.

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Man, I hate kids, and even I know that one-month old babies emote.

Like, a lot. Loudly and obnoxiously. At all times of the day and night. Whether people around them are happy or not.

So that's basically what I meant, with how angry and upset people were and how Serenity is often a rockety ride and how odd her schedule would be, there should have been a lot more crying. Either they were keeping the baby doped up to her ears courtesy Mal making Simon do it for sanity reasons (actually kinda funny in a dark humour way), or that baby has some weird ass calmness about her.

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I would not be at all surprised if Simon took it upon himself to medicate the baby. Note that Simon and Kaylee are stuck with Emma most often, and Simon -- he's a problem-solver, that one.

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Originally posted by GWEK:


I would not be at all surprised if Simon took it upon himself to medicate the baby. Note that Simon and Kaylee are stuck with Emma most often, and Simon -- he's a problem-solver, that one.

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It is so wrong that I find this so funny...

I'm almost positive this is not even remotely ethical. The whole point of a baby crying is to indicate something is bothering them or that they're hungry - take that away and I'm pretty sure you have either a dead baby, failure to thrive, or a psychological complex.

But it would explain so many of the shots where the baby is just way too quiet and/or looks kinda dazed. And I've had my doubts for a while that ANYONE on Serenity would be fit caretakers for very young children.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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I'm not convinced that the Alliance can't find/track Serenity again and again. Like ever other day.

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Jubal snuck up on them, but only because River was in a coma.

All other times, Alliance doesn't really have a chance.

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I'm not sure that I agree with that. First, don't forget that it's NOT Jubal who tracks the crew -- it's Bea and Jayne. Are there other New Resistance folk out there who might want to find Mal? I'm betting so.

With respect to only being able sneak up on the crew if River is in a coma... again, I'm not so sure, but that's more from a storytelling point of view. If River is essentially omniscient, it becomes impossible to tell good stories. River's powers MUST be limited, or everything becomes "River! Fix it!"

One of the things that Zach does right here is to clearly demonstrate some of the limits of River's ability, in showing that she can get a sense of active surface thoughts, but nothing beyond that.

Her power level seems no higher than, say, the movie, where she senses the Reavers when they ACT in near vicinity, but not before. River makes it more difficult to sneak up on them, but nowhere close to impossible.

Now, with respect to actually FINDING the crew... the fact that the Firefly is so common has always been on their side, so it depends on how much Mal rocks the boat, and how long he sticks around after.

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Unless they use other psychics, but that's basically a lot of effort and resources that would be better used elsewhere for one insignificant ship and no real gain. I mean they just lost TWO highly trained operatives this time around, a psychic, and the military guy running the Op, and in return they managed to take out some of the browncoat cell but Serenity got away.

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Are you kidding? Yes, they lost Denon, but they had already lost The Operative a long time ago. With respect to Iris... So what? They've got dozens more! Rodgers isn't lost -- he'll be fine, and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of him.

As for taking out "sone of the browncoat cells"... The implication is that they took out a huge percentage of the resistance. Even if they only took out the cell we see in the comic, that's HUGE, because it's the sell on SIHNON, which is one of the two capital planets of the Alliance. That's like taking down a terrorist cabal in Washington, D.C., or New York! That ain't nothing to sneeze at!

Although Kalista loses (in that her goal, we discover, is to retrieve her "sister" at all costs), but I would argue that Rodgers is the big winner of the story arc. I think an argument can be made that he really doesn't much care if he captures Mal - he's more concerned about exposing Mal, so he can lead the New Resistance like lambs to a slaughter... which is EXACTLY what happens.

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I'm not sure that I agree with that. First, don't forget that it's NOT Jubal who tracks the crew -- it's Bea and Jayne.

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Jayne is actually implied to have contact with the crew now and then, presumably he'd know how to get in touch since he was once on the crew. Also, River might not LIKE him, but she wouldn't particularly object to him showing up again. Someone who's deliberately out to kill or endanger the crew she could probably find a way to steer clear of them unless she didn't see any other alternative or unless she was in a coma, which was my point.

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If River is essentially omniscient, it becomes impossible to tell good stories. River's powers MUST be limited, or everything becomes "River! Fix it!"

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Actually I think that this story was intended to imply that she's not, based on how far south that Academy raid goes. Also, it's indicated that the clearer River is mentally, the less clear her other abilities are, hence the coma subplot, plus when she is clear she has an obvious tendency to outsmart herself. Basically it seems River's power is balanced by either her clarity or her insanity - too clear and she's not as far ranging and too reliant on an assumption of superior intelligence, too crazy and she sees farther but can't act in advance to avoid a problem or piece what she's seeing together.

But she still has a big advantage in terms of avoiding pursuit and that shouldn't be discounted.

Besides, it's already being set up in story that the psychics really ARE the best bet for catching River and the crew, because of what I've already said. I expect that attempt to go belly up though too - Alliance is too focused on reliability and procedure, to the point they'd wipe out any vestiges of individuality in their psychic supersoldiers, and that comes back to bite them every time they're up against something more unpredictable or different than them.

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Are you kidding? Yes, they lost Denon, but they had already lost The Operative a long time ago.

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They'd already lost the other Operative by the time of the movie, but you really don't think they wouldn't want to capture and debrief him (read: torture and murder him horrifically)?

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So what? They've got dozens more!

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How much money do you think it costs to make a psychic, and to keep the program covered up? Which becomes all the harder the more escape - especially ones dead set on exposing it?

Honestly, last comic you were complaining about how pants on head stupid the Alliance is, now it's that it wasn't a big deal, couldn't the reality be somewhere in the middle? Alliance accomplished some objectives, Browncoats and Serenity crew accomplished some objectives, but mostly it was a gigantic screw up for everyone?

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First time posting, so I'm just gonna jump in here. I agree with a lot of your assessment of this series, but I did have something to add.

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Originally posted by GWEK:

4) Mal's plan that he and The Operative will go in alone: I get that he doesn't want to be responsible for other lives, throughout this story arc, his guiding light has been that he's been willing to do ANYTHING to get Zoe back... so why so standoffish all of a sudden?

The Mal we've come to know SHOULD be in a cargo hold giving a spirited speech to all the New Browncoats, telling them that he can't ask them to lay down their lives for a woman they've never met, but that he's going and he'll owe a debt to any willing to join him.

But of course, he can't really give that speech because WHERE IS EVERYBODY?!? Based on the pictures we saw in the last episode, there should be battered, smelly people filling up every part of the ship, but, nope. Not any to be seen. Which is weird, because Bea specifically mentions them, and we DO see them in the background later.

So why is Mal willing to bring Bea with him but none of the others? Why knows, except apparently the plot doesn't call for more than the mule can carry. Which is pretty disappointing.

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Mal is clearly struggling with the idea of leading an army again. I think, while you're right and using logic, Mal needed this series to get over this issue he's got. He fought a war. He lead people. They almost all died. He's done. He won't do that again. It's him and his and that's it. He's not going to bring anyone else in, he's not going to let an army follow him again. Crew, family, that's different. But the daughter of someone else he got killed? Even if it wasn't a direct connection, he holds that on himself.
I think we needed this bad plan. I think Mal needed to go through these motions to get to a place where he might be able to lead an army again and fight the Alliance again, instead of just skirting around them.
It's one thing to lead a skirmish and fight one fight with the people you've come to love like family. Mal can wrap his head around that. Leading an entire army of people with coats of a brownish color probably smacks his PSTD around a little too much for comfort. (Yes, I understand that term hasn't been used in canon, and I'm no doctor, but freakin' look at the dude and what he's gone through and the issues he still has over it. Come on.) I think the story was told awkwardly, and couldn't been handled a lot, a LOT better, but I think this was a step that was needed for Mal.

Other than that, I agree whole-heartedly and you brought up points I hadn't even thought of. I think the guards could have been explained. They just didn't SHOW enough of what was going on and where people were. I mean, if they told the story right and explained either with narration or art, it wouldn't be hard to explain. You only saw two guards with the over all prison population. Stupid, yeah, but they're in the middle of no where, surrounded by desert, why guard them when they know they ain't goin' anywhere? Zoe was halfway to the mule before we see the guards on skiffs, maybe they came from the prison and gained on her. Obviously, these are a lot of assumptions, but better storytelling could've explained that. The prisoners not doing anything? I can see some of the more intelligent ones knowing that Zoe's going to escape, but they're not there to save everyone, so why fight? Help Zoe, but other than that, riot is excessive. But in a populace like that, not everyone is going to have that mentality. People will still riot because they're idiot criminals and that's what's expected of them.

It does make me excited for what they've set up. For the future stories. I just hope they're treated with more respect and planning than this one was.

Some people juggle geese!

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First time posting, so I'm just gonna jump in here.

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Brave man. Or woman.

I think one thing we can all agree on, the story could've used more planning and does feel like it was just thrown out.

But, I also think the conclusions that are reached are logical and based on established set up. So I don't mind that too much. Plus I get the feeling the artists and Zach were still getting their feet under them. Zach's been writing stories to get a feel for the characters, but that's different from putting them into a coherent plot.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Plus I get the feeling the artists and Zach were still getting their feet under them. Zach's been writing stories to get a feel for the characters, but that's different from putting them into a coherent plot.

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I think that is why the story was only six issues long.

And then stops for an indefinite amount of time.

Nobody knows where to take the story next. Don't ask Mal about his plans for tomorrow. Mal certainly doesn't plan his future ahead, so writers can't, either.

Rather than Mal making plans, if River was doing the planning for Serenity, there would be an abundance of plans, more than enough crazy plans to fill double issues every month for years ahead.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Actually I think that this story was intended to imply that she's not, based on how far south that Academy raid goes. Also, it's indicated that the clearer River is mentally, the less clear her other abilities are, hence the coma subplot, plus when she is clear she has an obvious tendency to outsmart herself.

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Right. That's basically what *I'm* saying. Someone else, I thought it was you, made the assertion that as long as the crew has River, they can't be caught.

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How much money do you think it costs to make a psychic, and to keep the program covered up? Which becomes all the harder the more escape - especially ones dead set on exposing it?

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You're talking about Iris, yes? Because if we're to believe this story arc, River is dead set on listening to coitus for months on end.

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Honestly, last comic you were complaining about how pants on head stupid the Alliance is, now it's that it wasn't a big deal, couldn't the reality be somewhere in the middle? Alliance accomplished some objectives, Browncoats and Serenity crew accomplished some objectives, but mostly it was a gigantic screw up for everyone?

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I agree that it was a big, gigantic screw-up all around, although on the balance, the Alliance (or at least Rodgers) came out on top.

You're right that I complained about the stupidity of the Alliance -- and this time around, I'm complaining about Mal's utter stupidity, which does not negate the Alliance's stupidity, but simply adds to it, making for an entire story arc of base idiocy.

Rodgers doesn't win through cleverness, but simply through luck. Someone -- again, I believe it may have been you -- painted this as a catastrophic loss for the Alliance. I don't think agree that's the truth of it -- they (Rodgers, at least) lost the battle here but won the war. He achieved his ultimate, larger goal, just not as effectively as he would have wanted to.

On The Operative (because I think I deleted that out): I don't have the impression that Mal and The Operative exactly kept in touch, so if Mal could track him down inside a day, I would imagine the Alliance could have done it in nine months if they really wanted to.

On Jayne (also deleted out): The implication is NOT that they've kept in touch. It's clearly implied, if not outright stated, that the crew has not had contact with Jayne since he "did what was right for him" and left. Jayne is sniffing around Mal's old haunts, hoping to find Mal. I won't chalk this one up to total stupidity (although Mal should really have been looking for NEW places to hide), because Mal states that he realizes now that he shouldn't have trusted Jayne. He was giving Jayne the benefit of the doubt, and I can't blame him for that.

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Originally posted by Lyesmith:
First time posting, so I'm just gonna jump in here. I agree with a lot of your assessment of this series, but I did have something to add.

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Originally posted by GWEK:

4) Mal's plan that he and The Operative will go in alone: I get that he doesn't want to be responsible for other lives, throughout this story arc, his guiding light has been that he's been willing to do ANYTHING to get Zoe back... so why so standoffish all of a sudden?

The Mal we've come to know SHOULD be in a cargo hold giving a spirited speech to all the New Browncoats, telling them that he can't ask them to lay down their lives for a woman they've never met, but that he's going and he'll owe a debt to any willing to join him.

But of course, he can't really give that speech because WHERE IS EVERYBODY?!? Based on the pictures we saw in the last episode, there should be battered, smelly people filling up every part of the ship, but, nope. Not any to be seen. Which is weird, because Bea specifically mentions them, and we DO see them in the background later.

So why is Mal willing to bring Bea with him but none of the others? Why knows, except apparently the plot doesn't call for more than the mule can carry. Which is pretty disappointing.

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Mal is clearly struggling with the idea of leading an army again. I think, while you're right and using logic, Mal needed this series to get over this issue he's got. He fought a war. He lead people. They almost all died. He's done. He won't do that again. It's him and his and that's it. He's not going to bring anyone else in, he's not going to let an army follow him again. Crew, family, that's different. But the daughter of someone else he got killed? Even if it wasn't a direct connection, he holds that on himself.
I think we needed this bad plan. I think Mal needed to go through these motions to get to a place where he might be able to lead an army again and fight the Alliance again, instead of just skirting around them.
It's one thing to lead a skirmish and fight one fight with the people you've come to love like family. Mal can wrap his head around that. Leading an entire army of people with coats of a brownish color probably smacks his PSTD around a little too much for comfort. (Yes, I understand that term hasn't been used in canon, and I'm no doctor, but freakin' look at the dude and what he's gone through and the issues he still has over it. Come on.) I think the story was told awkwardly, and couldn't been handled a lot, a LOT better, but I think this was a step that was needed for Mal.

Other than that, I agree whole-heartedly and you brought up points I hadn't even thought of. I think the guards could have been explained. They just didn't SHOW enough of what was going on and where people were. I mean, if they told the story right and explained either with narration or art, it wouldn't be hard to explain. You only saw two guards with the over all prison population. Stupid, yeah, but they're in the middle of no where, surrounded by desert, why guard them when they know they ain't goin' anywhere? Zoe was halfway to the mule before we see the guards on skiffs, maybe they came from the prison and gained on her. Obviously, these are a lot of assumptions, but better storytelling could've explained that. The prisoners not doing anything? I can see some of the more intelligent ones knowing that Zoe's going to escape, but they're not there to save everyone, so why fight? Help Zoe, but other than that, riot is excessive. But in a populace like that, not everyone is going to have that mentality. People will still riot because they're idiot criminals and that's what's expected of them.

It does make me excited for what they've set up. For the future stories. I just hope they're treated with more respect and planning than this one was.

Some people juggle geese![/q

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