Obama the blowhard

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 17:34
VIEWED: 28456
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THGRRI

Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:25 PM

If you are right 1KIKI your right. That simple.

si shen

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 14, 2014 9:36 PM

THGRRI

I do have to say that while the USA is not the only conquering nation in history, we do have the dubious distinction of being the latest and most consistently brutal in our own history. Heck, I can't point to one decade in USA history when we weren't slaughtering or enslaving somebody... and quite often, several somebodies at the same time. That's quite an accomplishment!

AFA the "mistakes" we've made... when the results of our "interventions" are so consistently and brutally negative, at some point you either have to think that we're either (1) irremedially, hopelessly incapable of learning from our mistakes, or (2) destruction and exploitation was our policy all along.

I know that I come across as being 100% against the USA. Believe it or not- I'm not. The FF had some brilliant ideas which - although they didn't work out as planned, they might work with some tweaking. Also, I'm very much in favor of border security and a common language. What I AM against is conflating the USA interests with that of banks and transnationals- something we've been doing for at least 100 years. People who confuse the two often wind up defending our most heinous actions because they believe that they're defending the USA.

As a general rule of thumb, I have seen a change in USA policy over the past decade or so (under Obama). It used to be that we destabilized and replaced governments, or invaded, or otherwise took control of another nation, for a purpose: oil and the petrodollar (Saudi Arabia), oil (Iran), copper (Chile), shipping (Panama), agriculture and banking (Central America), etc. We had an interest in maintaining functioning governments and economies, even if they were military juntas, because we expected to get something out of them. It seems to me, though, that destruction has become Plan B, if not Plan A. We never DID get oil out of Iraq as Bush promised (the oil revenues will pay for the war). Despite all of our rah-rah about South Sudan (where oil comes up out of the ground so sweet and light you can almost use it unrefined) all we've managed to do was kill their oil exports to China and India, since they're now embroiled in a civil war. Same with with Libya- we destroyed it, but for what? As far as I can tell, the only thing the west might have gotten out of Libya was Qaddafi's gold, since oil production has dropped to about 1/10 of what it was before. We seemed to be pretty willing to destroy Syria as well; only a flotilla of Russian warships in the eastern Mediterranean kept us from bombing. Ukraine is also turning into a great smoking ruin.

In fact, we left smoking ruins of ALL of our latest interventions- failed states embroiled in civil war, havens for either al Qaida (Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, and soon to be Yemen) or neo-Nazis (Ukraine). Having taken imperfectly functioning economies/ societies and turning them all into total clusterfucks, I'm beginning to think that our "plan" has become If we can't have it, nobody can.

THGRRI

Saturday, June 14, 2014 9:41 PM

I read the first paragraph SIGNYM and decided not to read further. I stopped at the word slaughtering. You have a one track mind and it seems to be locked into misery and despair.

si shen

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 14, 2014 9:55 PM

Well, then you would have missed the part where I say what I like about the USA. But, god help you if you bumped into some actual factual history on your way to getting there!

THGRRI

Saturday, June 14, 2014 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, then you would have missed the part where I say what I like about the USA. But, god help you if you bumped into some actual factual history on your way to getting there!

I think you are a very intelligent person. I just don’t think you can get past your preconceptions to see things for what they truly are. The odds are at times you will be correct but your starting point for analyzing information is never impartial. It is always biased and that is my point to you.

si shen

THGRRI

Saturday, June 14, 2014 10:17 PM

SIGNYM: I will post this in both threads we are currently debating in and call it a day as far as you and I are concerned in these two threads. We can do battle when something new arises.

Loved it buddy.

si shen

1KIKI

Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:50 PM

"You offer up as Prof Societies that exited thousands of years before the time of Christ."

And? If humans have achieved such an arrangement, don't you think it worthwhile to understand the conditions (including beliefs and economies) that led to that outcome? If one would like peace and prosperity - would you? - wouldn't you be interested in knowing how it's done?

As for ignoring the 200+ years of historical fact that SignyM points out when she uses words like 'enslave' and 'slaughter', how does that help your argument or your thinking? Some of the biggest insights I've gotten are when I stopped to look at facts I never really acknowledged before to see where they lead. Facts are vital things.

As for being right, I tend to look on it as a provisional thing.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

THGRRI

Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:10 AM

Hello SIGNYM, sorry 1kiki:

si shen

1KIKI

Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:16 AM

ad hominem

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

THGRRI

Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
ad hominem

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

fallacious, I think not.

si shen

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