Obama the blowhard
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 17:34
VIEWED: 28456
PAGE 4 of 15
Quote:MIKER, you're incomprehensible, didja know that?
I have been speaking to your hatred of this country throughout this entire thread. The fact that you have so far refused to answer that but instead post around it shows me to be correct.
Where's the question??? So what am I supposed to "answer"? All you did was make a statement. What kind of "answer" is required?
I will, however, make a counter-statement. I love my country. That's why I'm so very, very angry to see it do stupid, evil, pointless, wasteful things. Like 6IX says- I want to do right, be right. I think I made that point before, but apparently it's something YOU will "never understand".
And you still haven't answered my question.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sig - save for perhaps Afghanistan, where is the US military that the host country hasn't invited it ?
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Working backwards?
The Ukraine (do 'advisors' count?), Libya (does bombing count?), Iraq and Afghanistan.
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Have you LOOKED AT the immigration laws of other countries??? Because I HAVE. So yeah - here I stay.
Just out of curiosity - absent immigration hassles, where would you choose to go if you could? Where - in your opinion - is best?
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Working backwards?
The Ukraine (do 'advisors' count?), Libya (does bombing count?), Iraq and Afghanistan.
No,and no. The issue was MILITARY BASES. Not 'advisors'.
Japan, England, Germany, S. Korea... I'm certain that if we were asked to leave those countries, we would. As we left the Philippines , after Pinatubo erupted, and they decided we didn't need to bother rebuilding the 2 airbases.
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Quote:WHAT "objective analysis"? That's been my point with MIKER all along... lots of feeling, lots of statements of opinion, no analysis.
Miker, I agree with your objective analysis
For example, MIKER wonders, apparently, why I'm so negative about the America.
Did you know that my country isn't actually called "America"? At least, not by most people who live in the western hemisphere? That's because there are three Americas: north, central, and south. "America" is really known as Estados Unidos, sometimes del norte. The people living in this nation aren't "Americans" because we are ALL Americans, but gringos. But it's pretty typical of "Americans" (ie citizens of the United States) to subsume the hemispheric name to themselves.
Then, there is the list of nations with American military bases. Did you know there are 800+ military installations - including bases- ALL OVER the world? I guess - speaking of WW2 land-grabs- no other nation was really AS SUCCESSFUL at grabbing land as we were! No nation is our peer, as Obama so correctly pointed out.
And then, there is the number of governments toppled, and the number of people killed. From pre-WW2 to today, the slogans have changed - white-man's burden, remember the Alamo, anti-Communism, falling dominoes, the war on drugs, global war on terror, democratization, R2P (responsibility to protect, which sounds like white man's burden redux), back to the war on Russia- but the result almost always winds up the same:
dead people, tyrannies, and poverty. (Germany, Japan, and France were exceptions) Wow, are we clumsy at bringing peace and prosperity to the world, or what???
There was a poster here- Geezer- who is (was?) pro-military, who challenged me along those lines. It was my estimation that the USA was directly responsible for at least as many deaths as Stalin, if not more. So I assiduously looked up, and posted, all of the "interventions" that we engaged in - not even counting the massive genocide that was the birth of my nation. EVERY nation south of the "American" border was destabilized and overthrown - if not outright invaded- by the USA. The governments that we toppled were mostly democracies: Honduras and Guatemala, the so-called banana republics
Quote:, Brazil, Chile (for copper, backed by the big copper-users like Kennecott copper, Ford, and IBM), Nicaragua, etc etc. It was our support, training, funding and arming that led to death squads and "disappearances" throughout this hemisphere.
In the mid-1870s ... Keith founded the Tropical Trading and Transport Company: one-half of what would later become the United Fruit Company (Chiquita Brands International, created in 1899 by corporate merger with the Boston Fruit Company and owned by Andrew Preston). By the 1930s, the international political and economic tensions of the United Fruit Company had enabled it to gain control of 80 to 90 per cent of the U.S. banana trade. Nonetheless, despite the UFC monopoly, in 1924, the Vaccaro Brothers established the Standard Fruit Company (Dole Food Company) to export Honduran bananas to the port of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico coast of the U.S. The fruit exporters were able to keep U.S. prices so low because the banana companies, through their manipulation of the producing countries' national land use laws, were able to cheaply buy large tracts of prime agricultural land for banana plantations in the countries of the Caribbean Basin, the Central American isthmus, and the tropical South American countries—and, having rendered the native peoples landless through a policy of legalistic dispossession, were therefore able to employ them as low-wage workers.
Indonesia and East Timor- Kissinger and the CIA overthrew democratically-elected Sukarno and gave his successor- Suharto- the arms with which a mill
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Quote:
I love my country. That's why I'm so very, very angry to see it do stupid, evil, pointless, wasteful things.Quote:
I feel the same way, no where I'd rather live, but my GOD I expect better.
About sums it up for me, although I long since gave up "expecting" any better. I don't enjoy Sig's consistent focus on the negative myself, but I understand her frustration.
Just to add that our being "invited" to house military bases in other countries isn't exactly as cut and dried as all that. Today's "warfare" includes more economic, interdependent and geopolitical aspects than in times past, but it's just as valid when it comes to a wealthy, powerful nation spreading its influence. We ARE still an empire, albeit in my view a failing one, and we still wield influence just as every empire before us has. I also don't think any other nation, given the wealth and power we have, has ever acted any better in its time. My argument is more with governments, politicians and human nature than a focus on the actions of those in this country alone.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There was a poster here- Geezer- who is (was?) pro-military, who challenged me along those lines. It was my estimation that the USA was directly responsible for at least as many deaths as Stalin, if not more. So I assiduously looked up, and posted, all of the "interventions" that we engaged in - not even counting the massive genocide that was the birth of my nation. EVERY nation south of the "American" border was destabilized and overthrown - if not outright invaded- by the USA. The governments that we toppled were mostly democracies: Honduras and Guatemala, the so-called banana republics
Yep. And I showed that this was sort of like blaming the U.S. for all the deaths in WWII because we participated.
As for the FREELY ELECTED DEMOCRACIES in South and Central America and places like Indonesia, I showed that many of them were either not freely elected, or had one free election before the folks elected decided that future elections were just too much trouble.
I'm sure you preserved the links to these threads, so bring 'em back and let folks decide for themselves.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:No, you didn't. I was blaming the USA for all of the deaths WE caused. WE caused. What you're trying to do is blame everyone else for what WE did. Yanno It's all their fault. They made us do it! [/snivel]
Yep. And I showed that this was sort of like blaming the U.S. for all the deaths in WWII because we participated.
Quote:No, you brought up a question about ONE central American nation (I forget which one).
As for the FREELY ELECTED DEMOCRACIES in South and Central America and places like Indonesia, I showed that many of them were either not freely elected, or had one free election before the folks elected decided that future elections were just too much trouble.
But hey, feel free to bring up those threads yourself! There were three of them, as I recall.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But hey, feel free to bring up those threads yourself! There were three of them, as I recall.
You brought them up.
Link to them or be a liar. All the same to me.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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